Analysis How the state of the game has evolved, is the increased rate of injuries a result of of the evolution

[Ron The Bear]

richmond have been terrible to watch for the last 5 years, i cant stand the way they play

if you want an entertaining contest, dont watch richmond

2014-16 board.

 

[VictorianCrow85]

I'm usually in the camp of 'stop messing with the game' though I'm starting to think there may really need to be some sort of changes made to improve the game for viewing purposes. It's just become all about pressure and numbers at the ball rather than ball skills which is a bit sad.

Not really sure what I'd do but perhaps lower the interchange rotations even further also reduce players on the ground (without increasing bench) by 2 each side making it harder to flood the ground and fill every hole with zones and maybe it'll open up a bit and go back to more skill based footy than just pressure?

It's been an ordinary start to the year for viewing purposes thats for sure, probably a little bit early to panic but I do hope things improve over the course of the year.

 

[mxett]

Interesting development in my son’s under 12 game this morning. At stoppages around the ground the umpire would only allow the ruckman and a couple of rovers inside 15 metres of the ball-up.

“Get back, get back! Clear space! - you and you! Back further. Move!”

It was like he was recreating a mini-centre square at each ball-up. And you know what? It worked. Game flowed a lot better with far less congestion and repeat stoppages.

Just a thought....

I think that's a similar idea to what Leigh Matthews proposed, all players return to 'zones' for every stoppage. It wouldnt be that hard to police. The umpires in the 50 arc just need to count 6 defenders and 6 forwards

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

I think that's a similar idea to what Leigh Matthews proposed, all players return to 'zones' for every stoppage. It wouldnt be that hard to police. The umpires in the 50 arc just need to count 6 defenders and 6 forwards

Hate zones, and I know the kids did too when they were forced to play in them. Don’t think zones are the answer.

This wasn’t anything like that, he just cleared out players and made space, sometimes it was 15m, sometimes it was 20 sometimes it was 12 and a half. He just made sure there was space around the contest. And the kids adjusted really quickly, after the first 4 or 5 times they knew not to come too close and just leave it to the ruck/rover combo.

 

[schnoods]

Raise the interchanges. More info and less fatigue for players, might end up with more coaching changes and tweaks, rested players possibly resulting in a faster pace.

On the flip side, bigger floggings and less equalization?

 

[mxett]

Raise the interchanges. More info and less fatigue for players, might end up with more coaching changes and tweaks, rested players possibly resulting in a faster pace.

On the flip side, bigger floggings and less equalization?

this has been suggested already. The issue with less fatigue from rested players is you will have even more players getting to every contest, which results in more congestion, more pressure on the ball carrier, more rushed disposals, and more turnovers.

 

[mxett]

Hate zones, and I know the kids did too when they were forced to play in them. Don’t think zones are the answer.

This wasn’t anything like that, he just cleared out players and made space, sometimes it was 15m, sometimes it was 20 sometimes it was 12 and a half. He just made sure there was space around the contest. And the kids adjusted really quickly, after the first 4 or 5 times they knew not to come too close and just leave it to the ruck/rover combo.

I dont really like idea of zones either, however the centre square is a zone at the centre square ball up. I wish there was an easier fix but I'm struggling to see it

 

[jerry springer]

3rd game I have turned off this weekend, it's just a borefest

 

[footyfan1978]

I dont really like idea of zones either, however the centre square is a zone at the centre square ball up. I wish their was an easier fix but I'm struggling to see it

Zones are a last option. Prefer we fix game without the need for that, although we all need to get that at one point the game did not have a centre square zone for centre ball ups after each goal. As best as I can make out the people that saw football before that and after that did not say years later it should not have happened. So a zone was introduced and has done the game good. Can only assume it progressed the game in the spirit of the sports game it was meant to be. The game was never designed to have rotations in it. That much is abundantly clear and even in 1998 when bringing in 4 interchanges it was probably on the back of blood rule interchange that was catalyst of going from 2 to 3. They must have felt we needed even another one to cope with that but has lead to it being used for totally different aim by coaches years later. It is only logical to remove it, either fully or incrementally over a few seasons.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

Not allowing three-four people tackling each other when on the ground will stop some of the congestion.

 

[footyfan1978]

Not allowing three-four people tackling each other when on the ground will stop some of the congestion.

Yeah, there are so many little things in game that not meant to be in there that have creeped into the game whilst the custodians of our great game been asleep at the wheel too caught up on business of the game and neglecting the actual sport and game itself as it should be played. The time for change is arriving very soon. The neglect has gone on way too long.

 

[cecil]

I think even making it so each team needed one player in each 50 at all times would open it up. It'd drag back the defensive zone a bit as they wouldn't want a strictly 1 on 1 contest every time the ball went into 50 quickly. So it'd drag 2-3 players out of the stoppage in each direction, while still allowing coaches the ability to be tactical with their set up and not stuck with a tonne of players in areas they don't want.

 

[schnoods]

this has been suggested already. The issue with less fatigue from rested players is you will have even more players getting to every contest, which results in more congestion, more pressure on the ball carrier, more rushed disposals, and more turnovers.

Possibly, but i am looking ideally at the interchange cap a few years ago when the sub was abolished. Games seemed faster and less stagnant.

More rested could mean a bit more line breaking too. Not quite sure how players too tired to make it to contests will give a faster paced game, it might increase the chipping around in the back line during latter stages of the quarters.

 

[shaqsuns]

Possibly, but i am looking ideally at the interchange cap a few years ago when the sub was abolished. Games seemed faster and less stagnant.

More rested could mean a bit more line breaking too. Not quite sure how players too tired to make it to contests will give a faster paced game, it might increase the chipping around in the back line during latter stages of the quarters.

The ball moves faster then players can ever, and if you give them the space to work with they become more creative. By getting rid of the interchange all together the will change the way players will use their energy throughout the match and essentially keep them in certain parts of the ground.


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[footyfan1978]

I think even making it so each team needed one player in each 50 at all times would open it up. It'd drag back the defensive zone a bit as they wouldn't want a strictly 1 on 1 contest every time the ball went into 50 quickly. So it'd drag 2-3 players out of the stoppage in each direction, while still allowing coaches the ability to be tactical with their set up and not stuck with a tonne of players in areas they don't want.

Certainly worth trialling. If any zone stuff brought in hope it is very simplistic like that. I listened to Blighty on radio during week and his ideas on zones were not as a radical as I imagined they might be. All he seemed to suggest was after every goal and start of every quarter you need 6 in forward line, 6 midfield and 6 in backline which in effect would stop sides setting up with a loose 7th man in defence which happens often at start of games and never stops. Coaches could still get extra man down there later but at each bounce from a goal, they cannot do it so if get ball out of middle and cleared quickly gives a fair chance 6 forwards can get ball quickly if moved quickly and beat their opponent. I would be happy to see your idea and his trialled in JLT just to see the effects. Maybe even in all the leagues below AFL level for a year and see how it all goes.

 

[schnoods]

The ball moves faster then players can ever, and if you give them the space to work with they become more creative. By getting rid of the interchange all together the will change the way players will use their energy throughout the match and essentially keep them in certain parts of the ground.


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What about tired players looking for stoppages, fatigued contests where 2 players know the can't just grab the ball and run out just concede the ball up only to have congestion.

Fresher players might be able to get to contests easier, but the can also find space and lead easier too.

Not sure what the final destination goal is. Circa 2010 where interchange caps were higher or mid 90s where there is more positional football where athleticism was less compared to strength training...

 

[footyfan1978]

Fresher players might be able to get to contests easier, but the can also find space and lead easier too.

This is true. What you are missing in all this is coaches direct their players to flood opposing forward line and then other team coaches to lock it in there with forward press zone. The space we get now is mostly just the turnovers....

 

[mxett]

What about tired players looking for stoppages, fatigued contests where 2 players know the can't just grab the ball and run out just concede the ball up only to have congestion.

Fresher players might be able to get to contests easier, but the can also find space and lead easier too.

Not sure what the final destination goal is. Circa 2010 where interchange caps were higher or mid 90s where there is more positional football where athleticism was less compared to strength training...

the point is tired players, or players trying to coserve energy wont get to every contest, so less players will be congesting each play or each stoppage. When players know they will blow up early in the game theyll conserve their energy and stay closer to their playing position

 

[shaqsuns]

What about tired players looking for stoppages, fatigued contests where 2 players know the can't just grab the ball and run out just concede the ball up only to have congestion.

Fresher players might be able to get to contests easier, but the can also find space and lead easier too.

Not sure what the final destination goal is. Circa 2010 where interchange caps were higher or mid 90s where there is more positional football where athleticism was less compared to strength training...

We played this game for 150 years with Aussie yobos who smoked darts, drank a shit load of piss and didn’t really use the interchange. I think the modern players will be fine.

To be honest with you stoppages are happening because there are 5 players in each tackle, if players are a bit fatigued their not going to push to every place on the ground where there is a stoppage are they?? Fatigue makes cowards of us all and it was vital part of this game for so long and now they are different type of athletes.

 

[schnoods]

the point is tired players, or players trying to coserve energy wont get to every contest, so less players will be congesting each play or each stoppage. When players know they will blow up early in the game theyll conserve their energy and stay closer to their playing position

Or perhaps when inevitably there is a stoppage there will only be more repeat stoppages as clearances will be harder, less fend offs and breaking tackles.

I honestly just dont see how knackered players conserving energy will make the game better in the short term.

In the long term the drafting will look to more steeple chase runners, tri athletes or the super athletic builds, ruckman will be athletic 195cm types as a 110kg 200cm+ ruck will be obsolete. Hamstring and ankle injuries will be rediculously high and then they'll call for shorter quarters as the game is exhausting.

At the end of the day, you are tryin to tone down competitiveness which isnt going to happen with exhausting players. Every coach would drag a player off the field and straight into the 2s if they were trying to conserve energy.

The game has evolved due to fitness and pushing the boundaries, Brisbane were putting players on the drip at half time early 2000s, the peptide saga, steroid banning, etc. No rule changing is ever going to get players to stop contesting...

 

[shaqsuns]

Or perhaps when inevitably there is a stoppage there will only be more repeat stoppages as clearances will be harder, less fend offs and breaking tackles.

I honestly just dont see how knackered players conserving energy will make the game better in the short term.

In the long term the drafting will look to more steeple chase runners, tri athletes or the super athletic builds, ruckman will be athletic 195cm types as a 110kg 200cm+ ruck will be obsolete. Hamstring and ankle injuries will be rediculously high and then they'll call for shorter quarters as the game is exhausting.

At the end of the day, you are tryin to tone down competitiveness which isnt going to happen with exhausting players. Every coach would drag a player off the field and straight into the 2s if they were trying to conserve energy.

The game has evolved due to fitness and pushing the boundaries, Brisbane were putting players on the drip at half time early 2000s, the peptide saga, steroid banning, etc. No rule changing is ever going to get players to stop contesting...

I think your missing the point, of coarse they are going to compete, it’s human nature to be a competitive beast however if less players can’t physically make it to each contest, there will be less people around the ball which will then give more players a chance to use their flare and skills to get the ball moving up and down the field.


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[mxett]

Or perhaps when inevitably there is a stoppage there will only be more repeat stoppages as clearances will be harder, less fend offs and breaking tackles.

I honestly just dont see how knackered players conserving energy will make the game better in the short term.

we are in this horrible mess because coaches started to use the interchange to rest players so frequently they had the capacity to run the length of the ground relentlessly. We now effectively have 18 midfielders who crowd the contest within 50m of the ball for every stoppage. If players cant rest on the bench they will need to rest on the ground when the ball is not in their vicinity., rather than following the ball continuously.

 

[Run n Spread]

18 teams are too many. As such defensive zones and presseswork as most players can't execute basic skills under pressure.

No changes to the rules.

Go back to the future. No interchange.

6-8 on the bench but subs only.

 

[Wacko23Jacko]

Put the whistle away for one, coast to coast plays with 2-4 free kicks are killing the game for one. Such a momentum killer.

Call ball ups/HTB earlier so players can’t swarm the contest. Like it used to be.

Scrap the shit with the nominating ruckman and just throw it straight up - more than one bloke goes for it from one side penalise them. (Sort of like it used to be).

Instead of calling out current players and coaches and trying to be a saviour Gerard and Slobbo, how about you talk about the officiating of the game that is killing it and try and fix that? No need for radical zones or anything, the answers right in front of you. The past.

 

[schnoods]

I honestly dont understand how you guys can possibly think that a 50/50 contest wont get help from a teammate 30 odd metres away because he is too tired, or that other team mates wont help the bloke running to help the contest.

No interchanges will force the fittest 18 players on the field regardless. You see players " resting " on the ground anyways, most gun midfielders will have a spell forward . Slower tired players aren't going to speed the game up. You will see the ruck template gone altogether, forward lines will be smaller .

I honestly think the reason for more congestion is with what players can and can't do in a contest whether marking or on the ground. Less body work is allowed, strictness with shepparding, holding, chopping the arms, blocking the run to contests. It is alot harder for defenders to defend solo so setting zone defence, get the ball to ground and best case scenario rebound the ball. Worst case it gets locked up in congestion and stem opposition offence.

Give defenders a fair go and i think it will help free up play. Forwards will become stronger naturally as they can muscle and wrestle a bit more too.