I get this sinking feeling...

[Stiffy_18]

What's he like overhead. It would be nice to have a ruckman that could take a pack mark.

He is not bad overhead but most importantly he is improving in that area.

 

[Crow-mosone]

Also in each draft there are normally only a handful of good ruckmen who go in the 1st 20 picks, but there are normally midfielders who go later that turn out to be absolute guns.

fwiw
most times it's actually the complete opposite...

 

[Crow-mosone]

Hi everyone

My name is Todd Manton and it is an honour to join this forum. Just a quick question about Cameron Wood. Does he have the physical development in him to be able to match it with the big fellas of AFL? He is pencil thin and I cannot see where he is able to put on enough muscle, any thoughts?

Cheers

yeah, I have a thought:
ain't no honour at all to join us a*se clowns here.

welcome.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Cheers for that, rookie mistake.

Welcome mate .

The more the merrier

 

[Manton]

Welcome mate .

The more the merrier

Thankyou all, have spent many a day reading what you all have to say and couldn't resist joining. Stiffy you seem to be the man when it comes to the crows, can I ask how you know so much, without getting to personal?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

As I posted the last night the Bulldogs are the key to many picks this year in what they do with pick 6.
with 3 early picks Hawthorn will definately pick a ruckmen - will it be a Vic in Deluca, or an interstater in Wood. If they're close in abilities Hawthorn will probably stay with the homegrown product.

Which gets back to what the Bulldogs do?

I still think I prefer Monfries or Eckermann - the choice doesn't bother me at all - happy with either. The 3 years in developing a ruckman B4 a return does worry me quite frankly.

 

[Crow-mosone]

The 3 years in developing a ruckman B4 a return does worry me quite frankly.

if at all.

 

[UpsideOut]

I'd take him. Bottom age player who can spend the year in the U19s in SANFL developing. Definetly worth a punt

As far as I'm aware, AFL listed players are no longer able to drop any lower than reserves when playing at SANFL level. From what I remember it had something to do with Luke Jericho and the AFC being unhappy with him spending time back with the U19s.

Irrelevant point, but I just thought I'd let you know.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

if at all.

The media feedback is they're impressive (all 3, although Meeson is a little on the lumbering side, but with a big motor).

So there's a better than even chance IMO they would make it, but 3 years for no return, V Richmond who simply go out and recruit a ready made ruckman as soon as they need one.

We did simarly with Clarke.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Thankyou all, have spent many a day reading what you all have to say and couldn't resist joining. Stiffy you seem to be the man when it comes to the crows, can I ask how you know so much, without getting to personal?

Just interested, I guess its a passion. I love the Crows so I want to know as much as I can about some things.

 

[Stiffy_18]

As far as I'm aware, AFL listed players are no longer able to drop any lower than reserves when playing at SANFL level. From what I remember it had something to do with Luke Jericho and the AFC being unhappy with him spending time back with the U19s.

Irrelevant point, but I just thought I'd let you know.

I'd still take him. He is bottom age and still was good enough to get an invite to the Draft Camp. I reckon he could be one of those investements that could pay off. You know one of those bottom agers that you pick up with later picks and if they were to have an extra year U18s he would be one of the top picks.

Take him because he can't be rookie listed or taken in the pre-season draft. I just looked at the Draft Camp results and the kid has grown to 199 cm and is nearly 97 kg so he is not far from being physically ready. He can take a mark so thats a plus.

I say DRAFT HIM!

 

[- PC -]

I am going to contradict myself with every sentence here but.. Unfortunately with the current AFL ruck set up a dominant centre bounce ruckman can be negated by a lesser player attacking the body causing the ball to drop to the midfielders. So the question has to be asked do you need an in and under midfielder or a strong tall ruckman. I look at Sandilands for Freo and I cry when I think he should dominate using his height but he doesnt..whether that is rawness I dont know but more times than not his midfielders are working hard around him to get centre clearances.

In saying that why waste an early pick on ''another '' midfielder? Do you target a future KPP? Or if available a raw around the ground ruckman/KPP?

A strong ruckman will always win around the ground contests and give an opportunity to your midfielders at stoppages. A good size body can also take a KPP if they dont make it as a ruckman. But as has been pointed out the Crows have midfielders to spare.

Stiffy we cant control what other clubs do ..we can only control what choices we make. If Wood is still available can he be converted into a KPP if needed? Versatility is required in AFL footballers today so this is something I would be looking at. If he is gone then I would like to see a KPP player chosen ahead of a midfielder.

 

[conVINCEd]

if at all.

This is my biggest concern - the risk that Wood won't even make it. Young talls are a HUGE risk. Even Josh Fraser was considered the absolute standout of his draft, and yet hasn't become a star. I know he is young but I strongly doubt he will ever be able to put on enough bulk to be a gun ruckman.

Monfries is a quality player - Wood is a tall kid.

For me, the bottom line is that you don't need a gun ruckman/men to win a flag, but you sure as hell need a gun midfield unit.

There are other options aside from Wood, DeLuca, Meesen and Maric, some of whom have been mentioned and some who haven't. I would hazard a guess that many of the quality ruckmen in the competition weren't taken in the first round.

Vote #8, Angus Monfries.

 

[Stiffy_18]

I am going to contradict myself with every sentence here but.. Unfortunately with the current AFL ruck set up a dominant centre bounce ruckman can be negated by a lesser player attacking the body causing the ball to drop to the midfielders. So the question has to be asked do you need an in and under midfielder or a strong tall ruckman. I look at Sandilands for Freo and I cry when I think he should dominate using his height but he doesnt..whether that is rawness I dont know but more times than not his midfielders are working hard around him to get centre clearances.

In saying that why waste an early pick on ''another '' midfielder? Do you target a future KPP? Or if available a raw around the ground ruckman/KPP?

A strong ruckman will always win around the ground contests and give an opportunity to your midfielders at stoppages. A good size body can also take a KPP if they dont make it as a ruckman. But as has been pointed out the Crows have midfielders to spare.

Stiffy we cant control what other clubs do ..we can only control what choices we make. If Wood is still available can he be converted into a KPP if needed? Versatility is required in AFL footballers today so this is something I would be looking at. If he is gone then I would like to see a KPP player chosen ahead of a midfielder.

I go to the clubs that have won the premiership in recent years and they all had few things in common and thats a good ruckman. We won our flags with Pittman and Rehn and *sigh* Marsh

I would strongly disagree with you in sayig that we have midfielders to spare. We CLEARLY lack lack of talented young midfielders. On opur list I only see 2 standouts in Reilly and Thompson and possibly Johncock.

We most definetly need a ruckman. Clarke is 31, Biglands 28, Hudson 26 and after that we got no one else. Clarke is gone next year so who do we have to back up Biglands and Hudson??????? No one.

Roo, McLeod, Goodwin and Edwards (key onballers) are all 28+. Who takes over when they hang up the boots????? I am sorry but Doughty, Skipworth and Shirley don't inspire me.

Its all about succession planning. We need everything really BUT our most pressing need is a ruckman, followed by midfielders and then followed by KPP.

In all honesty when Clarke retires we are screwed because we don't have a back up ruckman. We should have 4 or 5 on the list but we only have 3. I also agree with you that players these days need to be versatile and play more than one position. This is where as much as Clarke is an advantage, he is also a liability.

Woods can play KP. He has rotate through the ruck and forward line in the U19 and has been known to kick a few goals

 

[Stiffy_18]

For me, the bottom line is that you don't need a gun ruckman/men to win a flag, but you sure as hell need a gun midfield unit.

This is where I STRONGLY disagree. Look at say last 5 years and see the ruckman in winning sides. They might not be guns but they have to be good and offer something in field play

2000 - Barnes / Alessio
2001 - Keating / McDonald
2002 - Keating / McDonald / Charman
2003 - Keating / McDonald / Charman
2004 - Brogan / Lade.

Those look like pretty good combos to me. Even if you go back to 96 you had McKernan, 97 and 98 we had Pittman and Rehn.

Bottom line ruckman are very important in a good side. Many people would argue that Collingwood lost in 2002 GF because there was no one that could go with Keating. To win GF you need quality ruckman and a very good spine.

 

[Crow-mosone]

Monfries is a quality player - Wood is a tall kid.

great analogy!!

 

[Crow-mosone]

2000 - Barnes / Alessio
2001 - Keating / McDonald
2002 - Keating / McDonald / Charman
2003 - Keating / McDonald / Charman
2004 - Brogan / Lade.

Stiffy,

that's a pretty average bunch now isn't it?

 

[Stiffy_18]

Stiffy,

that's a pretty average bunch now isn't it?

I don't think so.

Don't know about you but I rate the likes of Brogan, Lade, Keating and Charman. Even Barnes back in 2001 was a very solid ruckman.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Monfries is a quality player - Wood is a tall kid.

Ever seen any of them play??????

Wood is more than a tall kid. He is a genuinely good footballer. The fact that he is tall happens to be a bonus. His skills below his knees for someone 203 cm are unbleieveable and his skills in general are as good as if not better than Monfries'

 

[Crow-mosone]

I don't think so.

Don't know about you but I rate the likes of Brogan, Lade, Keating and Charman. Even Barnes back in 2001 was a very solid ruckman.

Only Brogan would be even near the ten best players in any of those guy's respective sides.

 

[Crow-mosone]

Ever seen any of them play??????

Wood is more than a tall kid. He is a genuinely good footballer. The fact that he is tall happens to be a bonus. His skills below his knees for someone 203 cm are unbleieveable and his skills in general are as good as if not better than Monfries'

Stiffy,

they way you describe him, sounds a lot like Josh Fraser. I wouldn't draft Josh Fraser with Pick 8, with the hindsight of knowing how long it took, and how not very special he became.

 

[Blue Red and Gold]

I tend to agree in the theory that having a great ruckman is not essential to a side.
With the new rules which have effected the Ruckmen the big bustling ruckmen like Primus is not needed.
I would prefer to get Monfries with our first pick and just see how it unfolds with a tall.
I am happy with Hudson, he does the job, I just think using pick 8 on a ruckman could be a waste and a too bigger risk.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

IMO, we should be picking the best talented player, regardless of their position with our earlier picks.

 

[Ozzie]

I tend to agree in the theory that having a great ruckman is not essential to a side.
With the new rules which have effected the Ruckmen the big bustling ruckmen like Primus is not needed.
I would prefer to get Monfries with our first pick and just see how it unfolds with a tall.
I am happy with Hudson, he does the job, I just think using pick 8 on a ruckman could be a waste and a too bigger risk.

For mine, I see a trend where the days of the pure ruckman are being diminshed on a yearly basis. I watched Wood against Vic. Metro and he is so skinny but got his hand to the ball first. Clarke does the same thing and now the opposition midfielders just read it and instead of being a dominant midfield we are average.
Maybe, you can cite retirements and player losses from there, but the fact remains we do not clear the ball from stoppages like we used to. In that game Wood was against Meeson and IMO meeson did much more around the ground in general play. I like Monfries but again from what I saw he seems to me to be nearly at the top of his potential meaning I don't think he has much improvement left in him. For mine I would take a punt on Roughhead, Willits or Kirky. They are mobile and can play either end of the ground. In the second round there will still be good midfielders left. Kids such as Redden, McQualter,Swallow, Russell, Lewis spring to mind.
Getting back to our ruckman, there will always be one or two big lads delisted, also a kid to put on the rookie list such as Andrews ( he still looks promising) for now, if we really got stuck, Watts is a huge lad and with his size he could possibly be used in a pinch hitting situation.

 

[PrideOf]

Rookie listing a ruckman is a lottery. For every success story there is 1000 failures

Ben Marsh
Matthew Golding
Jon Yerbury
Brad Dabrowski

996 to go. Do you have to wait for 1000 before getting a success story?

* waits for the inevitable Dean Brogan reference *