If you were Joe Root

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frankrizzo said:
I think another harsh reality is england still seem to think they have a clear advantage if the ball is nipping around a bit but we retained the ashes in england, nz and india both won in england and even in this series it was often overcast with pitches that were green tinged it was perfect for their quicks but reality is our quicks are better than theirs in those conditions right now and our batsmen while still not great are better than their lot in those conditions now so are nz and india.

England have no clear advantage vs top ranked sides in those conditions so they need to stop producing them in the county game and maybe then they produce quicks and spinners who can adapt to more surfaces, but hard part is accepting they arent the clear leaders anymore when its nipping around not if their batsmen play it even worse than the opposition.
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Initially when thinking about this I thought it was because other teams attacks have all improved.

And they have - each of Australia, SA, NZ, India, England and dare I say it the West Indies and Pakistan have all got good quality pace attacks, and even Sri Lanka has probably got the most pace bowling depth they’ve ever had.

In theory that’s why England don’t have the same advantage at home that they did.

But thinking deeper I don’t believe that’s the case. Australia has always had good pace bowling stocks: didn’t help them win anything there since 2001. SA has had its ups and downs in England despite having probably the best pace battery over the last 15 years.

It’s the batting that has changed things.
Some sides - India the obvious one, have REALLY improved in seamer and swing friendly conditions. Australia as a unit probably haven’t but having Smith there made a big impact last series. NZ hasn’t got a superstar batting lineup but it’s better than what they’ve had previously.
Meanwhile England’s last remaining good specialist batsman is Joe Root - the likes of Cook and Bell are no longer there (who would have thought back in 2005 that Bell would leave such a big hole when he retired?) and it has completely evened out the playing field when teams tour there.
 
frankrizzo said:
Well yeah you could say why did it take an away series loss (in a place where england had lost 9 out of last 10) to start hearing honest talk about state of english cricket, surely the time to panic was back to back home losses?

Egnland hadnt lost a home series for something like 8 years but they lost two in one summer that really was a bigger deal than losing in australia where england nearly always lose.
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It's because for every series played by England in between the 19 Ashes and the 21/22 Ashes they had the excuse that they were building for the Ashes. They were resting players, trialling different combinations and had basically said that all other series were just warm ups for the Ashes.

It kept the wolves at bay but then they were pathetic in the series that they were apparently planning for for 2 years and now they've got no excuses.
 

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Well they've just announced they're squad to West India and there's a bit to talk about...

Neg - I know they are looking at life after Broad and Anderson, but I think you need to still have at least one playing each match. Their best quick bowling trio still contains these two so you can't leave both out unnecessarily.

Pos - Gone back to a specialist keeper in Foakes.

Pos - Sticking with Pope. He's their most talented and best performed young batsmen in county cricket. In an ideal world you could send him back to county cricket and he'd come back in 12 to 24 months a much improved player. But theirs is not an ideal world and he isn't going to fix his problems against spin in county cricket. For better or for worse, he is going to have to learn test cricket on the job.

Neg - This isn't so much a negative of the selection of Lees and nothing personal against him. Maybe he'll make a fist of it. The negative is the position England find themselves in here. After picking a number of middle of the road openers who weren't up to it, their answer to the opening conundrum is to pick another middle of the road opener. But in reality, that's the only answer they can give because all their options here are poor. I suspect they're going to get the same outcome as they have been getting for a long time now.

Neg - Sticking with Woakes despite his horrid overseas record. No problems with them picking him in English conditions.

Neg - I know he isn't the future but their batting could do with some backbone and I'm surprised Malan has been overlooked, although admittedly his fortune did fade in the back half of the Ashes. His final average of 24 doesn't exactly scream undroppable. Still, I'd have him around for a little while longer. I would have considered him for opener as he is basically doing it anyway. That scenario, however, still doesn't resolve the issue after continuing to select another middle of the road opening batsmen.

Pos - Parkinson. I think it's time to handy him a test debut.
 
They’ve not picked their best squad. Test cricket isn’t a development arena. You pick your best XI. They’ve only won one series there since the 60s I’m pretty sure and I think that will continue. Might not be as glorious as last times thrashing and King Jase’s 200 but it will happen.
 
corbies said:
England seem to be constantly planning for a future that never comes. If they'd just concentrate on picking their best team for the here and now I feel like they'd have much more success even over the long term.
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I wasn't completely opposed to their horses for courses policy for the quick bowlers in the 21/22 Ashes. They had depth in that area and getting a full five tests out of Anderson and Broad was probably wishful thinking. They obviously saw what we did in 2019 and were looking to emulate that. I could see the thinking for sure.

But there is also a very strong counterargument that they should have just picked their best three quick bowlers from the start - Anderson, Broad and Wood - and if one of them breaks down you just deal with it and bring in Robinson and if another goes down then in comes Woakes.

When it works like it did for Australia in 2019 (bearing in mind we still only drew the series) you look like you've pulled off a great piece of squad management. But when it goes awry as it did for England this summer it makes you look a little bit incompetent.

TBH I don't think it would have mattered which way they went. The end result would have been largely the same. People going down the selector-bashing path are just diverting their attention from where England's problems really lie. They can't "select" their way out of the batting mess they are in.
 
corbies said:
England seem to be constantly planning for a future that never comes. If they'd just concentrate on picking their best team for the here and now I feel like they'd have much more success even over the long term.
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This is the most succinct summary you could ask for.

It hurts them so much - to be in a position where losing this series WOULDNT be an upset is a perilous predicament for a supposed power nation to be in but they do nothing to help themselves
 
Gethelred said:
I'd get a facial tattoo, colour my hair blue and get a mohawk, and become a gym junkie and ******* huge. Then, I'd use the additional character obtained by this to turn the entire English cricket team more punk.

He's 31 and he looks like a private schoolboy.
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It’s worthwhile wondering if a captain’s appearance does anything to alter their leadership.

Of the most notable captains I’ve seen:
  • AB: looked harder than a coffin nail with a slightly unathletic rig and moustache
  • Graeme Smith: monster of a man and standing next to Kallis in the slips it looked like a Springbok scrum about to form.
  • Stephen Fleming: tall, lumber, permanent five o’clock shadow, looked intelligent
  • Waugh: looked permanently like he was about to snap into action as a Russian hit man
  • Clive Lloyd: ok he had the coke bottle glasses but being dark and athletic and wielding a bat that could double as a sequoia tree and probably armed with something equally big down his strides would have inspired anyone
  • Viv Richards: honestly is there any way a captain could be visibly MORE inspiring to his teammates and intimidating to the opposition?
  • Imran: hell the thought of holding hands with another dude makes me physically ill but I’d probably turn for him. He was all that is man.

Then poor old Rooty:
  • looks like a lesbian talk show host
  • looks like he is barely old enough to be a primary school captain let alone a test cricket one
  • has barely played a memorable shot in his life let alone one that makes you go ‘f*** that was impressive.’
  • if he got up to do a pre game speech you’d assume he was doing a welcome to country for his own teammates
 
PhatBoy said:
It’s worthwhile wondering if a captain’s appearance does anything to alter their leadership.

Of the most notable captains I’ve seen:
  • AB: looked harder than a coffin nail with a slightly unathletic rig and moustache
  • Graeme Smith: monster of a man and standing next to Kallis in the slips it looked like a Springbok scrum about to form.
  • Stephen Fleming: tall, lumber, permanent five o’clock shadow, looked intelligent
  • Waugh: looked permanently like he was about to snap into action as a Russian hit man
  • Clive Lloyd: ok he had the coke bottle glasses but being dark and athletic and wielding a bat that could double as a sequoia tree and probably armed with something equally big down his strides would have inspired anyone
  • Viv Richards: honestly is there any way a captain could be visibly MORE inspiring to his teammates and intimidating to the opposition?
  • Imran: hell the thought of holding hands with another dude makes me physically ill but I’d probably turn for him. He was all that is man.

Then poor old Rooty:
  • looks like a lesbian talk show host
  • looks like he is barely old enough to be a primary school captain let alone a test cricket one
  • has barely played a memorable shot in his life let alone one that makes you go ‘f*** that was impressive.’
  • if he got up to do a pre game speech you’d assume he was doing a welcome to country for his own teammates
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On one hand, it really shouldn't be relevant to one's ability to captain or bat, but he doesn't even have a decent glare on him. Roughening up his appearance - maybe few bouts as an amateur boxer, get some mongrel into him - and give him some genuine fighting experience instead of train and bat, train and bat and isn't this all so spiffing good might do his leadership and expectation of his teammates wonders.

I do object to the idea that he's never played a memorable shot in his life, though. I use his back foot off drives as examples to kids of how to do it, him and Kallis.
 
Gethelred said:
On one hand, it really shouldn't be relevant to one's ability to captain or bat, but he doesn't even have a decent glare on him. Roughening up his appearance - maybe few bouts as an amateur boxer, get some mongrel into him - and give him some genuine fighting experience instead of train and bat, train and bat and isn't this all so spiffing good might do his leadership and expectation of his teammates wonders.

I do object to the idea that he's never played a memorable shot in his life, though. I use his back foot off drives as examples to kids of how to do it, him and Kallis.
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Don’t get me wrong I think he’s a superb batsman and he has beautiful hands especially against spin but it just looks so unremarkable
 
PhatBoy said:
It’s worthwhile wondering if a captain’s appearance does anything to alter their leadership.

Of the most notable captains I’ve seen:
  • AB: looked harder than a coffin nail with a slightly unathletic rig and moustache
  • Graeme Smith: monster of a man and standing next to Kallis in the slips it looked like a Springbok scrum about to form.
  • Stephen Fleming: tall, lumber, permanent five o’clock shadow, looked intelligent
  • Waugh: looked permanently like he was about to snap into action as a Russian hit man
  • Clive Lloyd: ok he had the coke bottle glasses but being dark and athletic and wielding a bat that could double as a sequoia tree and probably armed with something equally big down his strides would have inspired anyone
  • Viv Richards: honestly is there any way a captain could be visibly MORE inspiring to his teammates and intimidating to the opposition?
  • Imran: hell the thought of holding hands with another dude makes me physically ill but I’d probably turn for him. He was all that is man.

Then poor old Rooty:
  • looks like a lesbian talk show host
  • looks like he is barely old enough to be a primary school captain let alone a test cricket one
  • has barely played a memorable shot in his life let alone one that makes you go ‘f*** that was impressive.’
  • if he got up to do a pre game speech you’d assume he was doing a welcome to country for his own teammates
Click to expand...
During Sir Alistair's time in charge, the Ashes team photos looked like they were from the annual Accountants vs Tradies fixture.
 

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PhatBoy said:
Don’t get me wrong I think he’s a superb batsman and he has beautiful hands especially against spin but it just looks so unremarkable
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www.espncricinfo.com

England beat South Africa, England won by 211 runs

ENG 458 & 233 vs SA 361 & 119 - England won by 211 runs in London, SA tour of England 2017, July 06 - 09, 2017
www.espncricinfo.com www.espncricinfo.com

Went to the first days play here and I don't know how Root managed to make a near run a ball 184 look boring, but he really did.

It was a great innings, but in many ways so - to borrow your term - unremarkable.

Quite likely my judgement was clouded because I was keen to see Rabada in full flight and he bowled like a busted ass hole.
 
If I were Joe Root I wouldn't have resigned.

But he has.

Wonder who takes over now. Anderson and Broad are too old and aren't guaranteed selection anymore. Go with a youngster like Crawley or Pope and hope they rise to the expectation? Or someone like Bairstow who has been around for a long time and never really settled into the team but still could have his best years to come.
 
Bareth Garry said:
If I were Joe Root I wouldn't have resigned.

But he has.

Wonder who takes over now. Anderson and Broad are too old and aren't guaranteed selection anymore. Go with a youngster like Crawley or Pope and hope they rise to the expectation? Or someone like Bairstow who has been around for a long time and never really settled into the team but still could have his best years to come.
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Or the Gay Basher Stokes

thenewdaily.com.au

Ben Stokes mocked gay men before fight

Ben Stokes mocked a gay man and threw a cigarette butt at his head before knocking two other men unconscious in a fight outside a nightclub in Bristol.
thenewdaily.com.au thenewdaily.com.au
 
Gethelred said:
On one hand, it really shouldn't be relevant to one's ability to captain or bat, but he doesn't even have a decent glare on him. Roughening up his appearance - maybe few bouts as an amateur boxer, get some mongrel into him - and give him some genuine fighting experience instead of train and bat, train and bat and isn't this all so spiffing good might do his leadership and expectation of his teammates wonders.

I do object to the idea that he's never played a memorable shot in his life, though. I use his back foot off drives as examples to kids of how to do it, him and Kallis.
Click to expand...
On this, I recall him getting into spats with his bowlers (I think with Jofra Archer particularly?) over field placements and things. As a leader if you've got open dissent on the field (and even in the press with Broad) I reckon you're very limited in actually implementing any form of team culture.
 
11kgm said:
Or the Gay Basher Stokes

thenewdaily.com.au

Ben Stokes mocked gay men before fight

Ben Stokes mocked a gay man and threw a cigarette butt at his head before knocking two other men unconscious in a fight outside a nightclub in Bristol.
thenewdaily.com.au thenewdaily.com.au
Click to expand...
Root will always have a fond place in the heart of LGBTQI+ cricket loving community for both his words to Shannon Gabriel and his peach like arse.
 
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