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Is Dan24's finals system right or wrong? VOTE NOW!
- Thread starter Grendel
- Start date
- Tagged users None
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Geez,
I just get home from work, and I see this thread has over 70 responses. Do I really generate that much controversy ???
Actually, the yes/no vote is doing better than I thought. With most people naturally being agaisnt "change", I would have though it would be very one-sided towards the "NO" vote, but it seems as though there are some people on here with common-sense after all.
I take it as a win. A moral victory.
Grendel, I'd lack to back up Shinboners and congratulate you on a good thread. Sometimes the ones that you least expect generate the most response, although it's gotten a bit off topic.
I just get home from work, and I see this thread has over 70 responses. Do I really generate that much controversy ???
Actually, the yes/no vote is doing better than I thought. With most people naturally being agaisnt "change", I would have though it would be very one-sided towards the "NO" vote, but it seems as though there are some people on here with common-sense after all.
I take it as a win. A moral victory.
Grendel, I'd lack to back up Shinboners and congratulate you on a good thread. Sometimes the ones that you least expect generate the most response, although it's gotten a bit off topic.
I
i_luv_westcoast
Guest
I wasn't even going to bother voting, but there is no way im allowing Dan24 to have a moral victory.
Thus im voting NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thus im voting NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Grendel: Love Election - classic film
WCE2000: some of us Bomber fans cop it sweet and are not covering our tracks - read my post - I said no.
Rooboy96: with all the crybaby "cheat miss cheat" stuff you being to sound like a Brisbane committeeman... give it a rest, everyone did it, we got caught through no coming clean via bad administration - problem resolved - ancient ****ing history.
WCE2000: some of us Bomber fans cop it sweet and are not covering our tracks - read my post - I said no.
Rooboy96: with all the crybaby "cheat miss cheat" stuff you being to sound like a Brisbane committeeman... give it a rest, everyone did it, we got caught through no coming clean via bad administration - problem resolved - ancient ****ing history.
Dave
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I raised it? You were the one who said to Sandie:
"but then you think it is okay to get caught cheating."
Try to get your facts straight next time matey.
"but then you think it is okay to get caught cheating."
Try to get your facts straight next time matey.
Dave
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It was on this thread boyo. Check out page four.
http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001120-4.html
Bettter luck next time.
http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001120-4.html
Bettter luck next time.
T
Tim
Guest
No
- Thread starter
- #87
19 No votes
9 Yes votes
Sorry that the thread lost track.
Bad luck Dan but your out of office
ps sorry i didnt update the score sooner but with the computer dying on me and other things i sort of forgot about it. Guess im ruled out as an arbitrator from now on.
9 Yes votes
Sorry that the thread lost track.
Bad luck Dan but your out of office
ps sorry i didnt update the score sooner but with the computer dying on me and other things i sort of forgot about it. Guess im ruled out as an arbitrator from now on.
I take that as a victory.
People always vote for what is currently in place.....even if it's wrong.
Hell, in 1986, 95% of Victorians didn't want a National competition in a survey. These same people would probably be happy with the structure of the AFL at the moment. Hypocrits.
If one third agree with me, and the ones that don't at least "understand" where I'm coming from and "partially" agree with me, then there are only a small number that are "vehemently" and "philosphically" opposed.
I still have absolutlry NO idea why anyone in their right mind would not want the Home and away season recognised. Why wouldn't they, given that it comprises 95% of the season.
And especially takeing into account that the Grand Final remains as the last game of the year, even though the winner (in my proposal) is only declared champions of that 4 week finals series. It's win/win
It's pure logic all the way through, and I'm sure people will eventually come around. Common-sense would surely indicate it.
People always vote for what is currently in place.....even if it's wrong.
Hell, in 1986, 95% of Victorians didn't want a National competition in a survey. These same people would probably be happy with the structure of the AFL at the moment. Hypocrits.
If one third agree with me, and the ones that don't at least "understand" where I'm coming from and "partially" agree with me, then there are only a small number that are "vehemently" and "philosphically" opposed.
I still have absolutlry NO idea why anyone in their right mind would not want the Home and away season recognised. Why wouldn't they, given that it comprises 95% of the season.
And especially takeing into account that the Grand Final remains as the last game of the year, even though the winner (in my proposal) is only declared champions of that 4 week finals series. It's win/win
It's pure logic all the way through, and I'm sure people will eventually come around. Common-sense would surely indicate it.
kenny_lingers
Rookie
- Sep 16, 2000
- 23
- 0
Dan24, where r u now?
The Bombers won the flag...how much less significant and hollow would it have been without everything riding on it. A lot less!
I'd like to add, as it is topical at the moment, is that the pressure and effort that goes into winning an olympic medal is huge and life changing...a chance which usually happens only once in a lifetime, but it is stuff legends r made of.
So for me, the fact that a team in the AFL must get best position under the system of the day (don't give me the 1,2,3,4 argument here,
i agree with u), then perform when it counts once a year and if fail get another crack at it the following year is enough.
Final 5 was best, Mc Intyre system not that bad, now is not good but straight knockout is crap.
My vote is NO.
20-9 Mr. Administrator.
The Bombers won the flag...how much less significant and hollow would it have been without everything riding on it. A lot less!
I'd like to add, as it is topical at the moment, is that the pressure and effort that goes into winning an olympic medal is huge and life changing...a chance which usually happens only once in a lifetime, but it is stuff legends r made of.
So for me, the fact that a team in the AFL must get best position under the system of the day (don't give me the 1,2,3,4 argument here,
Final 5 was best, Mc Intyre system not that bad, now is not good but straight knockout is crap.
My vote is NO.
20-9 Mr. Administrator.
Kenny Lingers,
Part of the problem is getting this through peoples thick heads.
You said this,: "The Bombers won the flag...how much less significant and hollow would it have been without everything riding on it. A lot less!"
That is a load of crap, and here's why :
First of all, under my system, the finals series still happens. You still have to perform ON THE DAY to win the Grand Final. The only difference is that the finals series tournament is knockout with all 8 teams being treated equally.
The fact that the finals currently override the whole season is disrespectful of the efforts of all clubs over the home and away season. Very disrepectful. All that effort, that comprises the H&A season (95% of the season) is deemed irrelevant. That sucks. it sucks bad. Whats the point winning 21 games over the Home and away, if it's irrelevant ? Stupid. Yep, stupid.
The other thing is that if my system was used, the Grand Final would lack nothing. Currently, the Grand Final is NOT a measure of who the years best team is. People may say it is, but it's not. The Grand Final is an event. Sure, the winner is "called" premiers, but that doesn't mean they are the best team. The best team is found over 6 months and 22 weeks.
Take the FA Cup in England. It is the LAST match of the season (like the Grand Final) and the winner is only the champion of that tournament. Chelsea, who won the FA CUP were NOT champions of the whole season.
Did this detract from the FA CUP ? No, it didn't. Did it make it any less big ? No, it didn't. It didn't because it is an event. It's the last match of the season. An event. Like our Grand Final.
Here in Australia, people don't really care about being the best. They just want to win the Grand Final. Even if they are the 6th best team, they are happy if they win the Grand Final.
So, if the Grand Final winner was ONLY champions of a 4 week tournament, it wouldn't affect things at all. It would be like the FA CUP. The Fans would still get the glory of winning the Grand Final (as usual), which is all the fans want anyway. They don't care about the tile "premiers", they just want the glory of winning that last match so we might as well make the Grand Final the culmination of the 4 week tournament only. Makes much more sense.
The Grand Final is about an "event" and about the "glory" of winning a one-off match. That's what it's about. So, making it the last match of the year, but only declaring the winner as "finals series champions" is the best way to go. No doubt about it.
This way, we get the "Home and away" premiers, and we also get the "4-week finals series champions" You still get your knockout finals and all that stuff.
I just "know" it's the way to go. Trust me. I just know.
Part of the problem is getting this through peoples thick heads.
You said this,: "The Bombers won the flag...how much less significant and hollow would it have been without everything riding on it. A lot less!"
That is a load of crap, and here's why :
First of all, under my system, the finals series still happens. You still have to perform ON THE DAY to win the Grand Final. The only difference is that the finals series tournament is knockout with all 8 teams being treated equally.
The fact that the finals currently override the whole season is disrespectful of the efforts of all clubs over the home and away season. Very disrepectful. All that effort, that comprises the H&A season (95% of the season) is deemed irrelevant. That sucks. it sucks bad. Whats the point winning 21 games over the Home and away, if it's irrelevant ? Stupid. Yep, stupid.
The other thing is that if my system was used, the Grand Final would lack nothing. Currently, the Grand Final is NOT a measure of who the years best team is. People may say it is, but it's not. The Grand Final is an event. Sure, the winner is "called" premiers, but that doesn't mean they are the best team. The best team is found over 6 months and 22 weeks.
Take the FA Cup in England. It is the LAST match of the season (like the Grand Final) and the winner is only the champion of that tournament. Chelsea, who won the FA CUP were NOT champions of the whole season.
Did this detract from the FA CUP ? No, it didn't. Did it make it any less big ? No, it didn't. It didn't because it is an event. It's the last match of the season. An event. Like our Grand Final.
Here in Australia, people don't really care about being the best. They just want to win the Grand Final. Even if they are the 6th best team, they are happy if they win the Grand Final.
So, if the Grand Final winner was ONLY champions of a 4 week tournament, it wouldn't affect things at all. It would be like the FA CUP. The Fans would still get the glory of winning the Grand Final (as usual), which is all the fans want anyway. They don't care about the tile "premiers", they just want the glory of winning that last match so we might as well make the Grand Final the culmination of the 4 week tournament only. Makes much more sense.
The Grand Final is about an "event" and about the "glory" of winning a one-off match. That's what it's about. So, making it the last match of the year, but only declaring the winner as "finals series champions" is the best way to go. No doubt about it.
This way, we get the "Home and away" premiers, and we also get the "4-week finals series champions" You still get your knockout finals and all that stuff.
I just "know" it's the way to go. Trust me. I just know.
Kenny Lingers,
Why is straight knockout crap ??
Under the "double chance system" that we have now, the top of the ladder team can be eliminated after ONE loss in the preliminary final. The top team can also be eliminated after one loss in the Grand Final.
Double chance for the top team ? Yeah right. Sure. Whatever they reckon.
So, if the top team can currently be eliminted after one loss in the PF and the GF, why can't they be eliminated in the first wek too (if it was 1v8) ? Same difference. Yep, same diff.
Finals are NOT about getting second chances. they ae about performing on the day. In 1996,97,98 and 1999, the top of the ladder team, who "supposedly" had a double chance was eliminated from the finals after ONE loss. That one loss was in either the prelim, or the Grand Final. So, the knockout tournament "basically" exists anyway. Might as well go all the way and make it total knockout.
The only way the top team gets a double chance currently, is if there is a major upset in the first week. If they win, then they get rewarded by going into a cut-throat prelimianry final. The double chance situation is a load of crap. Utter crap.
Make it knockout all the way through. 1v8, 2v7, 3v6, 4v5. Quarter-finals, semi-finals, then the Grand Final. Sure, 1st can be eliminated after one loss to 8th. But the top team in 1999 and 2000, could have been eliminated after one loss (yes one loss) on preliminary final day. In 1999, this happened.
NO DOUBLE CHANCES
Why is straight knockout crap ??
Under the "double chance system" that we have now, the top of the ladder team can be eliminated after ONE loss in the preliminary final. The top team can also be eliminated after one loss in the Grand Final.
Double chance for the top team ? Yeah right. Sure. Whatever they reckon.
So, if the top team can currently be eliminted after one loss in the PF and the GF, why can't they be eliminated in the first wek too (if it was 1v8) ? Same difference. Yep, same diff.
Finals are NOT about getting second chances. they ae about performing on the day. In 1996,97,98 and 1999, the top of the ladder team, who "supposedly" had a double chance was eliminated from the finals after ONE loss. That one loss was in either the prelim, or the Grand Final. So, the knockout tournament "basically" exists anyway. Might as well go all the way and make it total knockout.
The only way the top team gets a double chance currently, is if there is a major upset in the first week. If they win, then they get rewarded by going into a cut-throat prelimianry final. The double chance situation is a load of crap. Utter crap.
Make it knockout all the way through. 1v8, 2v7, 3v6, 4v5. Quarter-finals, semi-finals, then the Grand Final. Sure, 1st can be eliminated after one loss to 8th. But the top team in 1999 and 2000, could have been eliminated after one loss (yes one loss) on preliminary final day. In 1999, this happened.
NO DOUBLE CHANCES
- Thread starter
- #92
Dan me old china. I think perhaps you lose to many with such quoutes as
*Part of the problem is getting this through peoples thick heads.*
and
*I just "know" it's the way to go. Trust me. I just know.*
Whats that they say about people who say "trust me"
ps just me stirring again, dont take it seriously
*Part of the problem is getting this through peoples thick heads.*
and
*I just "know" it's the way to go. Trust me. I just know.*
Whats that they say about people who say "trust me"
ps just me stirring again, dont take it seriously
After having watched a few of the Olympics events, I think it's unfair how four years of work can come down to just one race. Just because you win a swimming final, it doesn't mean that you're the best...after all, you could just be having a bad night or something. I think there should be more recognition given to the athlete who finishes the best after four years of qualifying. Of course, the Olympic finals will still be there for those of you who like that sort of stuff yada yada yada
Trust me, I've thought about this more than you have and if we change the system to what I recommend, people will accept it yada yada yada
Cheers
Shin24
Trust me, I've thought about this more than you have and if we change the system to what I recommend, people will accept it yada yada yada
Cheers
Shin24
O
Optimistic
Guest
What we need is a doping test to eliminate the 'sledgers' etc
Or am I being 'un-Australian' ?
Or am I being 'un-Australian' ?
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Damn good idea Shinboner... how would it be implemented??? should we send letters to the IOC??? what help do you want??? we need to get this understood by the people that can change the current stupid situation...
What about if we tell Dan24??? he could be our new leader... do you mind Shinboner???
DAN HERE IS A NEW CAUSE FOR YOU TO FIGHT FOR...
What about if we tell Dan24??? he could be our new leader... do you mind Shinboner???
DAN HERE IS A NEW CAUSE FOR YOU TO FIGHT FOR...
O
Optimistic
Guest
PS Dan24
The FA cup is not remotely like the finals series.
It is played at intervals throughout the season. Every team in England (and parts of scotland and wales) can take part (although they don't get past the first few rounds)
Second division (now first division) teams have won it at times (Sunderland in the seventies) that is the equivalent to Subiaco winning it here.
Because of the luck involved it is not seen as as hard as the league (H&A) championship.
If we 'de-valued' the Premiership as you suggest how would people like yourselves be able to argue the 'we have 16 premirships' type arguments if some are worth more than others ?
The FA cup is not remotely like the finals series.
It is played at intervals throughout the season. Every team in England (and parts of scotland and wales) can take part (although they don't get past the first few rounds)
Second division (now first division) teams have won it at times (Sunderland in the seventies) that is the equivalent to Subiaco winning it here.
Because of the luck involved it is not seen as as hard as the league (H&A) championship.
If we 'de-valued' the Premiership as you suggest how would people like yourselves be able to argue the 'we have 16 premirships' type arguments if some are worth more than others ?
Rooboy96
But of course, Dan24 is our inspiration. He's our leader, our icon....he's more popular than Jesus. In fact, the Olympic flame should be extinguished right now so that Dan24 can go and relight it.
Shin24
But of course, Dan24 is our inspiration. He's our leader, our icon....he's more popular than Jesus. In fact, the Olympic flame should be extinguished right now so that Dan24 can go and relight it.
Shin24
Shinboner... here is a question... who thinks the Premier League has it right anyway... at least other clubs have a chance in the AFL... unlike the Premier League... they should change the nameto "MU and those to be relegated"
Who is going to win the AFL premiership in 2001... any of probably 13 teams...
who is going to be Premier League Champions in 2001..2002..2003.. and so on??? MU who else can compete... why even play the season??? that's right... to see who gets relegated...
Our way is more Australian... everyone has an even break... very Australian...
Who is going to win the AFL premiership in 2001... any of probably 13 teams...
who is going to be Premier League Champions in 2001..2002..2003.. and so on??? MU who else can compete... why even play the season??? that's right... to see who gets relegated...
Our way is more Australian... everyone has an even break... very Australian...
As it stands now some premierships are worth more than others.
All those prior to the admission of West Coast and Brisbane are worth less than those before because then it became a national competition and you had to beat more teams to win it.
Add Adelaide and Port Adelaide and you have even more value for similar reasons.
[This message has been edited by servo (edited 18 September 2000).]
All those prior to the admission of West Coast and Brisbane are worth less than those before because then it became a national competition and you had to beat more teams to win it.
Add Adelaide and Port Adelaide and you have even more value for similar reasons.
[This message has been edited by servo (edited 18 September 2000).]
Shinboners,
Your mock reply is distateful.
Let's look at the Olympics, shall we. There is nothing quite like the "glory" of winnng a gold medal is there. Much like winning the Grand Final. But there is a small difference.
If the best swimmer in the world loses a swimming final, they are still "ranked" the best. They retain the number one ranking. If Ian Thrope had lost the 200 metres freestlye the other night, he still would have been the Number one ranked swimmer in that event.
The gold medal does not determine the number one ranking. This doesn't detract from it at all, as we all know. It's the "glory" and "prestige" of winning a gold that is the important thing.
If Essendon had beaten Melbourne, Melbourne would "officially" have been ranked FIRST and Essendon would have "officially" been runners-up. Why ?
Just because Ian Thope loses a swimming final, doens't relegate him to the second best in the world, does it.
If Essendon had lost the GF, they should still have retained their "Home and Away" premiership. But NO. The AFL decrees that the Finals override the H&A, so even if Essendon had finished with a 23-2 record, they would have been runners-up of the whole year.
Yeah, I know it's stpuid, but that's how we do it in the AFL.
So, don't go giving me all this gold medal rubbish. I know all about the glory of Grand Final and gold medals, but the "glory" is not the point.
It's the official ranking at the end of the H&A season, which is only dependeant on a 4 week tournament which is my gripe.
Why you would write a post like you did, when you KNOW that the Grand Final will still remain in all it's "glory" is beyond me. There will be nothing like the individaul one-off moment of Grand Final, FA CUP or Gold medal success. But at least in the soccer and in swimming, the winner doesn't automatically "officially" get remebered as the best. They are remembered for their moment of glory, but at least the best team over the season (in soccer) and the best swimmer over a period of time (in swimming) are recognised as number one.
Tennis is similar. Nothing quite the glory of winning Wimbledon, but the Wimbledon winner doesn't become the number one player in thr world.
I suppose you and Rooboy would like the winner of a Tennis tournament do be called number one automatically, would you ? Yeah right. That makes a ot of sense (sarcasically)
Your mock reply is distateful.
Let's look at the Olympics, shall we. There is nothing quite like the "glory" of winnng a gold medal is there. Much like winning the Grand Final. But there is a small difference.
If the best swimmer in the world loses a swimming final, they are still "ranked" the best. They retain the number one ranking. If Ian Thrope had lost the 200 metres freestlye the other night, he still would have been the Number one ranked swimmer in that event.
The gold medal does not determine the number one ranking. This doesn't detract from it at all, as we all know. It's the "glory" and "prestige" of winning a gold that is the important thing.
If Essendon had beaten Melbourne, Melbourne would "officially" have been ranked FIRST and Essendon would have "officially" been runners-up. Why ?
Just because Ian Thope loses a swimming final, doens't relegate him to the second best in the world, does it.
If Essendon had lost the GF, they should still have retained their "Home and Away" premiership. But NO. The AFL decrees that the Finals override the H&A, so even if Essendon had finished with a 23-2 record, they would have been runners-up of the whole year.
Yeah, I know it's stpuid, but that's how we do it in the AFL.
So, don't go giving me all this gold medal rubbish. I know all about the glory of Grand Final and gold medals, but the "glory" is not the point.
It's the official ranking at the end of the H&A season, which is only dependeant on a 4 week tournament which is my gripe.
Why you would write a post like you did, when you KNOW that the Grand Final will still remain in all it's "glory" is beyond me. There will be nothing like the individaul one-off moment of Grand Final, FA CUP or Gold medal success. But at least in the soccer and in swimming, the winner doesn't automatically "officially" get remebered as the best. They are remembered for their moment of glory, but at least the best team over the season (in soccer) and the best swimmer over a period of time (in swimming) are recognised as number one.
Tennis is similar. Nothing quite the glory of winning Wimbledon, but the Wimbledon winner doesn't become the number one player in thr world.
I suppose you and Rooboy would like the winner of a Tennis tournament do be called number one automatically, would you ? Yeah right. That makes a ot of sense (sarcasically)
