Is Luke Ball 2009 better than Chris Judd?

[TassieSaint]

and Tassie Saint, judd appears to be plenty courageous and tough (don't get that much contested footy without those things).

Clearly, but he has nothing on Ball in those respects. Was just pointing out the areas that Ball is better than Judd.

 

[seanoff]

You could argue that in playing for Carlton , all of Judds possessions are cheap. There are other players in St Kilda contributing as well. I know Carlton is highly rated these days ( due to tanking and getting Judd and other good picks ) but frankly I didn't see that much evidence last year. Only slightly better than when they were tanking.

really really bad point, and totally untrue.

1st, there is no way you get 231 contested possessions cheap in the AFL. it does not happen. you earn every inside possession. whether you like carlton or not or if you think it's easier in a lesser side to get inside possessions. (the 2nd point here is absolutely laughable btw)

2nd, there are 4, FOUR, that's right 4, Geelong mids above the first St Kilda player in the contested possession stats(Corey, Ablett, Bartel and Selwood). also in the top25, there are 4 Bullies mids v 1 saint (Hayes)

Please tell me you don't think St Kllda's mids are better then the Geelong 4.

 

[StFly]

those stats back up the contention that Ball is not a damaging player. there is no way that in three extra games he is going to make up the large differences in inside 50s, goals contributed and contested footy.

Scoreboard dangerous perhaps since obviously the quotas are different but it's rather limited to say Ball is not dangerous simply because he may not deliver to a forward or score goals himself. Is not any member of the chain as important as the final 2 in terms of damage?

the theory was ball gets lots of cheap footy in not very dangerous positions. that may have been overly harsh, BUT it does have a grain of truth to it. he needs to work at getting the footy / putting the footy in more dangerous spots.

In this sense 90% of midfielders get soft possessions regularly.

*also i'm torn about tackling.

on the one hand it shows great pressure skills BUT it means you were second to the ball. it's probably a little bit of A and a little bit of B.

Logic fail as it does not mean that it were 2nd to the ball 100% of the time and there are numerous reasons why you would not have possession of the footy as it is not as if the ball is in dispute 100% of the time.

 

[dg102]

Theres no comparison when you look at past form. When Judd was peaking he was the best footballer in the modern game. People were comparing him to the best ever. ala Carey, Ablett (snr) and so on. He was in a champion team at that time though. We may still see his best form again, who knows, but he's not with a champion team anymore. On current form he's still very good but he's not the best. Those honours go to Ablett and Hodge.

 

[Look2Me4Guidance]

*also i'm torn about tackling.

on the one hand it shows great pressure skills BUT it means you were second to the ball. it's probably a little bit of A and a little bit of B.

Judd has Ball covered overall without little doubt. Saint supporters would know how influential Judd was in the final quarter the last time we played.

However Ball is clearly the superior tackler and if you don't rate tackling, I'd have to seriously question that. When you wrap up a bloke who plays on after a taking a mark, that is highly skillful and hard tackling is a sure fire way to shutdown pace. Playing in the midfield, the ball is always is usually always in a contested situation in general play, unless you are a winger or outsider. Ball is clearly an in and under player.

 

[fightclub]

really really bad point, and totally untrue.

1st, there is no way you get 231 contested possessions cheap in the AFL. it does not happen. you earn every inside possession. whether you like carlton or not or if you think it's easier in a lesser side to get inside possessions. (the 2nd point here is absolutely laughable btw)

2nd, there are 4, FOUR, that's right 4, Geelong mids above the first St Kilda player in the contested possession stats(Corey, Ablett, Bartel and Selwood). also in the top25, there are 4 Bullies mids v 1 saint (Hayes)

Please tell me you don't think St Kllda's mids are better then the Geelong 4.

Is Judd playing for the Cats now ?

 

[seanoff]

Is Judd playing for the Cats now ?

do you have trouble with comprehension.

Originally Posted by SaintsSeptember
You could argue that in playing for Carlton , all of Judds possessions are cheap. There are other players in St Kilda contributing as well. I know Carlton is highly rated these days ( due to tanking and getting Judd and other good picks ) but frankly I didn't see that much evidence last year. Only slightly better than when they were tanking.


so SS is arguing that Judd is getting possessions because Carlton have no other reasonable mids. (highly debatable) also given that Judd got 231 contested possessions, you could hardly call those cheap. he earned all of those.

So i pointed out that Geelong and the Bullies for that matter have midfields at least as highly rated as the Saints mids that are getting more contested ball than the saints mids. disproving the contention that a team with a highly rated midfield is incapable of having high individual contested possession (and total possession stats for that matter).

 

[Swans120]

Since moving to Carlton Chris Judd has hardly set the footy world on fire, and seems to be past his prime.
In contrast Luke Ball , who was drafted one place before Judd seems to be continually improving, with a series of terrific performances in 2008 cut short by a freak injury ( severe splits a-la-kosi). He seems to be completely over his prior groin injury , while Judd still remains suspect.

Some Saints supporters already rate him as our best midfielder.
Is it possible that Ball could become a higher rated player than Judd in 2009?

The comments about Judd being "past his prime" and the possibility of Ball being more highly rated than Judd are honestly the stupidest things i have heard this whole off season. Judd, while not being at full fitness all year with his groin problem, managed to turn Carlton into a very competitve side that is looking to hit the top 8 this year, help to turn Fev into arguably the best/most consistent forward in the game, carry the midfield on his back by changing his game to being a distriubtor inside rather than receiving on the outside. And this all in his first year at the club and taking on the captaincy. Judd is the best midfielder in the game (atm i rate him higher than Ablett as Gazza has more around him to help him out) and while i rate Ball as a very good player (2nd best to Hayes at the Saints IMO), he will not become a higher rated player than judd in 2009 nor ever.