Is Nicknat about to explode?

[Eastern Rangers]

I swear we got this thread last year...And maybe the year before.

And...

 

[Scotland]

Dear Lord...

BF posters really have short memories, before his injury this year he was well on his way to a fourth consecutive AA spot, and he easily could have been a four time B&F winner in that time too, with only Mundy, Pavlich and injury denying him.

Yeah, you have to be pretty good to win 4 consecutive AA spots.

As good as Dean Cox, in fact.

 

[Quivorir]

And it turns into the same shit fight every year.

 

[calyam]

You're a better poster than this.

Sandilands has had one season in his last nine where he has managed less than 15 games a season, it just happened to be this year where he played 13 and was well on his way to yet another AA jumper.

Going by your logic in this case, Cox should have been written off at the end of 2009?

There is no greater force in the game than Sandilands at full flight, not even Buddy at his best.

Ask the Crows how dominant the man can be.

An absolute wrecking ball at ground level, clearance specialist and a commander in the air.

Simply the most influential player in the game at full fitness.

I, and everyone else, recognises Sandilands as an excellent tap ruckman but seriously get your hand off it.

He rarely takes marks (less than 4 a game throughout his career), most of his possessions are handballs and he doesn't kick goals. Does this really sound like the most influential player in the game? Really?

 

[Scotland]

And it turns into the same shit fight every year.

Unsurprising given Cox vs Sandilands invariably isn't enough for at least one peanut (often peanuts) to go on and proclaim that Sandilands is the greatest ruckman ever / most dominant player in the competition / etc.

 

[Chimera]

I, and everyone else, recognises Sandilands as an excellent tap ruckman but seriously get your hand off it.

He rarely takes marks (less than 4 a game throughout his career), most of his possessions are handballs and he doesn't kick goals. Does this really sound like the most influential player in the game? Really?

Judd rarely takes marks, is he any less of a champion?

Most if his possessions are handballs, is he any less of a champion?

Sandilands in his position, as a ruckman dominates his position to such an extent that he is in fact the most influential player in the game when fit.

It's a matter of trying to break even with him rather than beating him for opposition coaches and players.

Simply unstoppable.

 

[WCErevival]

Judd rarely takes marks, is he any less of a champion?

Most if his possessions are handballs, is he any less of a champion?

Sandilands in his position, as a ruckman dominates his position to such an extent that he is in fact the most influential player in the game when fit.

It's a matter of trying to break even with him rather than beating him for opposition coaches and players.

Simply unstoppable.

But if Freo doesn't win the clearances then how has he influenced the game?

 

[WCE_phil]

But if Freo doesn't win the clearances then how has he infliuenced the game?

Because he gets 10 effective hitouts to judd.......

 

[Chimera]

But if Freo doesn't win the clearances then how has he influenced the game?

You're right he has no influence, isnt the best clearance ruckman in the game and makes no space for his onball brigade.

 

[jko'neal]

He will be the same as last year maybe a little bit better, still lacks the engine to do it for sustained periods, but has amazing bursts of play. And I reckon we will question his footy smarts for a long time. And also to people saying it in this thread, he will never pass Dean Cox on pure football ability!

 

[sTeeL]

Needs more tank to last a game, likely to gain the stamina to do this over time....

Yep. At least another pre-season one top of this one I would think.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Fremantle averaged a hitout advantage of 7.9 per match in 2010.

Melbourne averaged an advantage of 8.4 and Westcoast 12.4 per game. Obviously Sandilands and Jamar where the two really outstanding ruckmen of the season. I don't have stats for taps to advantage.
Westcoast had an advantage of 18.1 hitouts per game in 2011 for reference.

 

[Masto]

Wouldn't surprise me to see him win a Brownlow in the near future. Goodes did it in the ruck and NicNat has similar traits.

He is a long way away from that. In fact in 2011 he failed to net a single vote.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Obviously Cox doesn't run as much around the midfield and rests more time up forward. Thus less marks and disposals these days but he does provide a much better target up forward.

2010 Sandilands AA.
16.3 Disposals
4.3 Marks
0.6 Goals
34.9 Hitouts

2011 Cox AA. With Naitanui.
17.8 Disposals
5.5 Marks
0.8 Goals
28.6 Hitouts

2008 Dean Cox AA. Seaby played 14 games.
22.1 Disposals
5.7 Marks
0.4 Goals
26 Hitouts

Edit: Post i quoted was deleted. So it's just a comparison.

 

[AG]

He is a long way away from that. In fact in 2011 he failed to net a single vote.

Serious? Well then maybe around 2015 he'll be up to the standard.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

He will be the same as last year maybe a little bit better, still lacks the engine to do it for sustained periods, but has amazing bursts of play. And I reckon we will question his footy smarts for a long time. And also to people saying it in this thread, he will never pass Dean Cox on pure football ability!

These are there stats as 21 year olds. Naitanui edges him out in every area but marks and he's had shoulder issues. No doubt most of these are uncontested given Cox's playing style back in the day.


Cox in 2002
10.2 Disposals
4.3 Marks
0.4 Goals
16.2


Naitanui in 2011
13 Disposals
2.2 Marks
0.8 Goals
19.9 Hitouts

 

[Quinz]

I thought he was terrific this year, he's better that Cox at centre square bounces right now- still needs to work on boundary throw ins where he gets out bodied. Over the season was one of our best, I'd say in our top 5-6 players for the year.

Improved in every aspect from 2010- took more contested marks, kicked almost a goal per game, and gathered as many possessions as most of the "footy smart" ruckmen. More importantly along with his regular freakish moments, he impacted games more consistently, especially when in the middle. It's hard to get involved sometimes as a second ruck and part-time forward.

Tracking superbly for a 21 year old, can't wait to see what he can deliver next year. The club needs to work phasing Cox out to get the most out of both players.

 

[yaco55]

Think that Cox's tapwork to advantage is under-rated - Clearly the best in the competition.

Some of Natanui's tapwork at centre bounces is elite but hasn't reached Cox's consistency yet.

 

[T2B_]

I'm a bit surprised to hear Nicnat didn't register a single Brownlow vote.

Like Kreuzer, I watch Nicnat closely at contests for things other than pure stats and his sheer influence can be larger than what stats will tell you. I would have thought he'd have gotten (or at least deserved) at least a vote in one of the games in 2011.

 

[Kwality]

Serious? Well then maybe around 2015 he'll be up to the standard.

Probably play his best footy around 28 yo, ie 2018, steady improvement til then.

Injury is always the great unknown, played with shoulder problems from round 2, 2011, so I'd expect a significant step up over 2011 in the coming season.

& the media hype drives me to distraction ...

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Dear Lord...
Naitanui is being rated purely on potential, not on what he's achieved so far. Cox has been a better player than Sandilands over the course of his career no doubt, but his last 5 years just doesn't stack up to Sandi's, he's become more a midfielder/loose man in defence in that time, a role he plays well certainly but as a pure ruckman Sandilands destroys the both of them.

So?

When rating Naitanui's potential abilities what else do I go on if not his potential?!?

Naitainui will be a better player than Sandilands. Just has so many more weapons.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

I'm a bit surprised to hear Nicnat didn't register a single Brownlow vote.

Like Kreuzer, I watch Nicnat closely at contests for things other than pure stats and his sheer influence can be larger than what stats will tell you. I would have thought he'd have gotten (or at least deserved) at least a vote in one of the games in 2011.

I found it pretty amusing to be honest; he's still a work in progress despite what many say.

Before anyone jumps on me I've said he'll be better than Sandilands, so I rate the kid.

 

[Chimera]

So?

Naitainui will be a better player than Sandilands. Just has so many more weapons.

I really think you're selling Sandilands short.

He is a monster of the game. I think Naitanui is definitely going to be the ruckman of the next generation, he's got along way to go to get close to Sandilands as a player.

 

[SHill Shall]

Obviously Cox doesn't run as much around the midfield and rests more time up forward. Thus less marks and disposals these days but he does provide a much better target up forward.

2010 Sandilands AA.
16.3 Disposals
4.3 Marks

2011 Cox AA. With Naitanui.
17.8 Disposals
5.5 Marks

Now see if you can find the contested/uncontested splits!

 

[Obeanie1]

Dear Lord...

BF posters really have short memories, before his injury this year he was well on his way to a fourth consecutive AA spot, and he easily could have been a four time B&F winner in that time too, with only Mundy, Pavlich and injury denying him.

I know BF usually can't provide further analysis than "his only good coz his tall lawl" though so I shouldn't be surprised.

Naitanui is being rated purely on potential, not on what he's achieved so far. Cox has been a better player than Sandilands over the course of his career no doubt, but his last 5 years just doesn't stack up to Sandi's, he's become more a midfielder/loose man in defence in that time, a role he plays well certainly but as a pure ruckman Sandilands destroys the both of them.

What a totally bias and incorrect statement.

Are you saying Naitanui has shown nothing to date?

What did Sandilands do in his first three seasons? He was still learning how to run and kick and wouldn't have come close to showing what Naitanui already has.

Unfortunately for this debate we will never see these two ruckman go head to head at their peaks. Naitanui will peak in another two years and Sandilands will be on the way down in two years.

At the end of the day they are very different ruck types in any case, Sandilands is a lumbering monster bigger than all his opponents, Naitanui is an agile 7 foot jumping panther who can split and run away from packs, run down opponents and is very unpredictable.