Is Nicknat about to explode?

[Banyo Bloods]

I really think you're selling Sandilands short.

He is a monster of the game. I think Naitanui is definitely going to be the ruckman of the next generation, he's got along way to go to get close to Sandilands as a player.

Reading your posts in this thread I think you think Sandilands would have been a good opponent for Rocky Balboa along the same lines as Ivan Drago. Rocky would still win.

As for NicNat exploding hmmm not sure but the commentators sure do when he gets near the footy. They love him. Could be anything though, bags of potential.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Natanui's got some really smart taps, and can do the freakish, but needs to work on reading the play a bit better. Seems to be everywhere but never get enough of the ball. He is such a dominant athlete that you'd want him to get a bit more of it to hurt opponents across games, not just in bursts

Such a fallacy

He already gets more ball than fancied 1st ruckmen like Jolly, Mumford and Warnock. He just isn't at Cox level yet. The only thing he doesn't do is stand out on the wing and earn the easier kicks.

As for ready to explode - it becomes more and more apparent that an uninterrupted pre-season is crucial to a good year. Unfortunately for Nic, he's been stuck with a 3 month recovery from shoulder/pec surgery, so I doubt 2012 will be his year.

As it stands though - he is already the best centre square tap ruckman in the league. From a purely selfish point of view, the rumblings from AFL house of stopping contact between ruckman at stoppages would play directly into NN's hands. Though from a football purist point of view I don't like the strength element being removed from footy.

 

[Jentleman Geff]

Probably play his best footy around 28 yo, ie 2018, steady improvement til then.

Injury is always the great unknown, played with shoulder problems from round 2, 2011, so I'd expect a significant step up over 2011 in the coming season.

& the media hype drives me to distraction ...

Actually, given that he relies on his explosive athleticism so much, 28 might be the age where he starts to decline. He is a Judd like player - extraordinarily freaky early in his career because of his natural athletic gifts. With a reasonable preseason and no injuries, I see no reason why Naitanui couldn't be a top 20 player in the comp next year.

I love the Melbourne fan in here. If Naitanui is better than Sandilands next year, then he'll be miles ahead of Watts. When does that drafting decision get labelled a mistake?

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Think that Cox's tapwork to advantage is under-rated - Clearly the best in the competition.

Some of Natanui's tapwork at centre bounces is elite but hasn't reached Cox's consistency yet.

Yeah it has - NN is comfortably better than Cox at centre bounces.

It's why he starts most quarters in the ruck. I don't have the stats handy - but he took the bulk of centre square ruck knocks in the back half of the season.

Given both rucks play for my club, i can say without bias that NN is comfortably a better centre square ruckman. Cox better around the ground by a bit though

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Actually, given that he relies on his explosive athleticism so much, 28 might be the age where he starts to decline. He is a Judd like player - extraordinarily freaky early in his career because of his natural athletic gifts. With a reasonable preseason and no injuries, I see no reason why Naitanui couldn't be a top 20 player in the comp next year.

No more relies on them than Jeff White did.

And White won his AA honours at 27, playing quality football for another 4 years, at least the equal he had done at an earlier age.

I don't ignore your point and it has validity - but it certainly isn't a fiat-du-complit.

 

[WCE_phil]

Actually, given that he relies on his explosive athleticism so much, 28 might be the age where he starts to decline. He is a Judd like player - extraordinarily freaky early in his career because of his natural athletic gifts. With a reasonable preseason and no injuries, I see no reason why Naitanui couldn't be a top 20 player in the comp next year.

I love the Melbourne fan in here. If Naitanui is better than Sandilands next year, then he'll be miles ahead of Watts. When does that drafting decision get labelled a mistake?

Kachow, now that the can of worms has been opened i think that shit sailed for me about 10 seconds after melbourne called out watts name at the start of the 08 draft. Funny though that if melbourne had of taken nicnat watts would have slid to 3 (the eagles would have taken rich) and freo would have him.

 

[Jentleman Geff]

No more relies on them than Jeff White did.

And White won his AA honours at 27, playing quality football for another 4 years, at least the equal he had done at an earlier age.

I don't ignore your point and it has validity - but it certainly isn't a fiat-du-complit.

I'm not so sure Jeff White was the same kind of player. We're talking about a ruckman who can out run and side step midfielders here. Jeff White had talent, but not that kind of talent.

My point is that the development curve for Naitanui is different to other ruckmen. He will be better earlier, but probably decline earlier as well. Being a ruckman is a tough gig, even tougher for those who play for the WA sides.

 

[The Casey Cat]

Yes from me. I was at our preliminary v WC and Nick Nat's performance was absolutely epic. And this was in a side that was smashed all game really and 11 goals down with 5 mins to play.

Ottens who was in good form had no answer in ruck duels and even better was after the duel Nat was brushing away tackles from guys like Bartel and Kelly before bursting away.

 

[Jentleman Geff]

Kachow, now that the can of worms has been opened i think that shit sailed for me about 10 seconds after melbourne called out watts name at the start of the 08 draft. Funny though that if melbourne had of taken nicnat watts would have slid to 3 (the eagles would have taken rich) and freo would have him.

I'm fairly certain Freo would have taken Hill. As I recall, Melbourne had to convince Watts to nominate.

 

[Chimera]

If anyone has ever seen Paul Mugumbwa play for souths he was still jumping over peoples head as a 28 year old undersized ruckman.

 

[Jentleman Geff]

I don't think WAFL counts at all. Less physically demanding and no travel requirements.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

From what I've read in the Eagles training threads, they're working on improving Nic Nat's running technique. Can't wait to see what sort of impact that has on his performance

 

[Patty_Moz]

Some of the things I've seen NN do are the most amazing things I've ever seen a ruckman do and he's only 21. The real question for me is whether he can start to do these things consistently. He was good this yr, particularly in the finals but before that he would often do 5 magical things in 5 minutes, then go missing for a quarter and a half, or until the next week. If he can get his consistency up quarter to quarter, week to week for an entire yr then (as much as it pains me to say this about a WCE) I think he will the best ruckman I've seen. But he has some issues to address yet.

 

[Elite Master]

He was one of two players in last year's final series that really came of age (the other being Tom Hawkins), going from a burst player with occasional flashy brilliance that went missing far too often, to generally impacting games for longer durations at a time.

I don't think he's ready to explode yet. Yes he'll improve, but I still feel he needs another season 2 before he gets more consistency which will result in accumulating more of the footy with his freakish athleticism and skills being all the more better for it as well.

 

[Galileo9]

I'm talking pure football ability and footy smarts not stats. I wouldn't think Nicnat will ever pass Cox in that regard. And Cox took a few years to grow into his body unlike Nic, he used to trip over his own feet at the start.

well i am not sure what your point is. only thing i can deduce from what you said was that he needs to get more cheap kicks around the back? 14 posessions and 18 goals for his experience level and as a ruckman growing is already excellent. cant get more pure football ability than having ability as a ruckman surely.

he tackles like mad, has excellent hands in traffic and id go as far to say his decisoin making is excellent. he doesnt make many turnovers. understands at every stage of his development where he is at.

if he lacks stamina to get those cheap stats around the back doesnt mean he has not football smarts or ability.

 

[Natho]

Nic Nat needs another preseason to really hit his straps I reckon. We will see some glimpses of his freakish talent again this year but will need to wait until he has a full preseason.

 

[yaco55]

Such a fallacy

He already gets more ball than fancied 1st ruckmen like Jolly, Mumford and Warnock. He just isn't at Cox level yet. The only thing he doesn't do is stand out on the wing and earn the easier kicks.

As for ready to explode - it becomes more and more apparent that an uninterrupted pre-season is crucial to a good year. Unfortunately for Nic, he's been stuck with a 3 month recovery from shoulder/pec surgery, so I doubt 2012 will be his year.

As it stands though - he is already the best centre square tap ruckman in the league. From a purely selfish point of view, the rumblings from AFL house of stopping contact between ruckman at stoppages would play directly into NN's hands. Though from a football purist point of view I don't like the strength element being removed from footy.

Agree with Nic Nat's centre square work - The opposition needs a sweeper on these occasions.

 

[Liam Boy]

The way he plays reminds me a bit of Corey McKernan. He just needs to do it more often.

 

[blaze036]

Best thing about him is he'll be impossible to tag like buddy height speed and agility its a deadly combo

 

[The Falcon Strike]

We could of course assess their respective performances when they've gone head to head in games when at peak and fit.

That rationale would have you believe that Freo were moral champions in 2006 as well.

Head to head is not as important as overall performance.

It's not about being better than you opposition on a weekend, it's about contributing more to success on a sustained basis week after week, season after season.

I don't disagree that Sandi's peak is probably the best since Madden - his game against Geelong in a 1 point loss a few years back is arguably one of the great games ever played. However that doesn't make him a better player.

 

[Chimera]

Not sure how this thread got so off topic, but I am of the belief that Naitanui will announce himself as one of the premier rucks in the competition.

For me he'll slot in behind Sandi as the best ruckman in the game going past his teammate in Cox, he was probably doing that in the latter part of the year and moved past his mentor in the finals of 2011.

His ruckwork was top notch and his clearance work is becoming more and more effective.

 

[stuftag]

The way he plays reminds me a bit of Corey McKernan. He just needs to do it more often.

The reason he doesn't do it more often is they have to give Cox some on ball time.

 

[Meathead]

The bloke is an absolute freak, I'm expecting a massive year, with plenty of goals also, a fit nicknat and cox will have a major say in how far the eagles progress this year. Fairly obvious statement, yes!

Cannot wait to see the flying Figian jump on blokes heads!

 

[Jay-Z]

The reason he doesn't do it more often is they have to give Cox some on ball time.

I really hope you don't believe that. McKernan was constantly switching between forward and ruck and it didn't stop him dominating.

The reason NicNat doesn't do it more often is because he is very young (for a ruckman) and at the moment he is a flashy, inconsistent player. Some players get over this and become consistent with a bit more maturity, some don't and continue to be inconsistent throughout their careers. It will be interesting to see what happens with NicNat. Part of me wants to see him "explode" as it would be exciting to watch, another part (the part that is one-eyed North and thinks Goldstein will still be a better ruckman in 5 years) hopes he doesn't

 

[Chism]

Lets keep it on topic from here on in.

This thread is not a Cox V Sandi V NicNat debate but a discussion on the latter himself.