Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack.

[owen87]

feels I'm doing exactly what Hamas intended.

Recognising Israel is doing some horrendous things?

 

[Saint]

Even the pope is calling out Israel for deliberately targeting and killing civilians - something our government could and should have done already if Albo had backbone.

The pope is a rabid anti-semite. He's been pro-catholic his whole life.

No, the only people who can hold an opinion about Israel are Jews, but not the devout ones who disagree with Zionism. Just the ones who agree with the Government position of killing Palestinians to expand territory.

 

[owen87]

Even the pope is calling out Israel for deliberately targeting and killing civilians - something our government could and should have done already if Albo had backbone.

Pretty big news for the Pope to come out and say that.

 

[owen87]

head of Local Council.......does he have any control over the IDF?

I have never said there are not lunatics in Israel, there were also members of government who suggested the use of nuclear bombs for example. Doesn't mean this is what is transpiring.

True.

But a number of people within the Government and IDF keep telling us their plans for Gaza. Which match exactly what they're doing in Gaza.

So unlike the handful that wanted to nuke Gaza then when no nukes were dropped on Gaza we could recognise that it wasn't transpiring. When others tell us they're planning on slaughtering and displacing Palestinian civilians en masse, and then they actually slaughter and displace Palestinian civilians en masse, perhaps they're actually just slaughtering and displacing Palestinian civilians en masse?

 

[Cooldude]

He is a rare good pope, we'll miss him when he's gone and replaced by an evil one as is the norm

 

[treeebeard]

I am dumbfounded how any government can parade the finding of a tunnel as some sort of got ya moment.

Melbourne is full of tunnels, old sewer tunnels, old subway tunnels, old access tunnels, cable tunnels.

These tunnels go between buildings, up and down busy streets and are used for many reasons.

Anyone could take a phot with a headline and make it sinister.

Tunnels are normal and in every city.

"The Palestinians use tunnels? So did my heroes, the poorly armed fighters of the Warsaw Ghetto. Unlike Israel, Palestinians lack Apache helicopters, guided drones, jet fighters with bombs, laser-guided artillery. Out of impotent defiance, they fire inept rockets, causing terror for innocent Israelis but rarely physical harm. With such a gross imbalance of power, there is no equivalence of culpability. … "

'Beautiful Dream of Israel has become a Nightmare’, Toronto Star, 22/7/14

 

[treeebeard]

That will not happen and it's not realistic to expect it too.

We are trying buy nuclear subs off the US at this very moment - we aren't going to kick the hand that feeds us rightly or wrongly.

The hand that feeds us? WTF do we need long range nuclear subs for? So we can become another Israel, defacto US military base.

 

[Mofra]

The hand that feeds us? WTF do we need long range nuclear subs for? So we can become another Israel, defacto US military base.

Because we have no refining capacity in Australia, low fuel reserves, and our White Paper since the late 80s has prioritised sea-lane protection between Australia and Singapore above all else.

Diplomacy and good relations with Indonesia is probably the best thing we can do to meet our so called "strategic aims" (and a hell of a lot cheaper), but what would I know...

 

[owen87]

but what would I know...

How to find the lowest airfares, guaranteed?

 

[HirdsTheWord]

The hand that feeds us? WTF do we need long range nuclear subs for? So we can become another Israel, defacto US military base.

I'd argue it doesn't need them, but as I said much earlier in this thread that Australia has a very similar relationship with the US as it does with Israel. Which is entirely strategic.

Australia is the US's reach in the oceanic area against China. That is the reality of our current relationship.

much of the advancements Australia has, is in large part due to the close relationship we have with the US, so you need to march to the beat of the drum, to some degree.

 

[Geelong_Sicko]

Remember that whole 'Gas the Jew's chant at the Sydney Opera House protests? The one that zionists and politicians in Australia have been using to bolster support for Israel's ethnic cleansing?

Well turns out that it didn't happen.

Crikey!

 

[4cunningTonneTruck]

A state is responsible for the actions of a state. An ethnic group is not responsible for the actions of some mebers of that ethnic group, even when those people pretend they speak for everyone in that ethnic group.

This is why zionism is inherently antisemitic. To carry out ethnic cleansing in the name of an entire ethnic group is gross. Not to mention it directly correlates to an increase of antisemitism around the world and also puts Jewish Israeli's in harms way.

 

[ferball]

Well, pretty much everyone else understands the point being made so maybe it's just you that has the issue.

Time to move on.

I think I'll point out that a whole bunch of people obviously don't understand because they keep accusing you of supporting the wholesale IDF slaughter of Palestinians based on your language before you keep pointing out you're criticising the IDF as well before I move on.

 

[bzparkes]

I think I'll point out that a whole bunch of people obviously don't understand because they keep accusing you of supporting the wholesale IDF slaughter of Palestinians based on your language before you keep pointing out you're criticising the IDF as well before I move on.

Well, those people mustn't be particularly intelligent, because I never remotely alluded to that whatsoever.

People in this thread are simply unable to rationalise any criticism directed at the side they cheer for and simply resort to accusing you exactly of what you stated.

It's as simple as that.

 

[ferball]

It doesn't, because everyone knows what I'm talking about.

If you want to argue semantics, do it with someone else and stop going off-topic.

Its four hours of hot weather later (where I am) and I've been enjoying the creek while you're still arguing about this.

If everyone knew what you were talking about a whole of us wouldn't be pointing this out and repeatedly saying the same thing. Israel relies on the people conflating Hamas and all Palestinians to get away with the wholesale slaughter and land theft they're engaged in.

Are you aware you're doing exactly what their psychological warfare operatives are programming you to do?

 

[ferball]

Well, those people mustn't be particularly intelligent, because I never remotely alluded to that whatsoever.

People in this thread are simply unable to rationalise any criticism directed at the side they cheer for and simply resort to accusing you exactly of what you stated.

It's as simple as that.

You said if palestinians stopped committing acts of terror.

If someone said:

If the Jews would stop bombing babies...

... about this conflict I'd hope we'd all have the shits with them for saying the same thing. Its just unnecessarily inflammatory language.

 

[bzparkes]

Its four hours of hot weather later (where I am) and I've been enjoying the creek while you're still arguing about this.

You quoted me. I haven't posted in here for a while.

If everyone knew what you were talking about a whole of us wouldn't be pointing this out and repeatedly saying the same thing.

It's literally 2 people who didn't understand it.

Israel relies on the people conflating Hamas and all Palestinians to get away with the wholesale slaughter and land theft they're engaged in.

The observation I made was about history since 1948, not the current conflict.

Are you aware you're doing exactly what their psychological warfare operatives are programming you to do?

Are you high?

 

[ferball]

Iraq? After Vietnam, for f*ck's sake. After US-trained death squads were raping nuns and slaughtering villagers all through Central America in the 1980's, and even before that. Pinochet of Chile. The Somozas of Nicaragua. Concurrent with Vietnam was Suharto of Indonesia, he who killed millions all US-sanctioned.

That nation has been morally bankrupt for a VERY long time. Australia has been morally bankrupt by association for a very long time too, eager as we are to follow unquestioningly in the military 'adventures' of our masters the United States and before that the British Empire.

I think this needs to change.

I had some good friends who were in Vietnam and even in the SE Asian"emergency" (ie the wholesale slaughter of lefties in Indonesia, malaysia etc etc a situation where many of the people who post left wing views on this website would have been targeted for those views.) One of them, who was ex SAS and in Vietnam and SE Asia generally told me he really couldn't see very much difference (if any) between what he and his fellow soldiers did in those conflicts and what the Nazis did.

Maybe if the US hadn't been so reliant on the influence of former Nazis like Reinhard Gehlen they wouldn't have ended up behaving in such an appalling manner after ww2.

 

[bzparkes]

You said if palestinians stopped committing acts of terror.

Are you ignoring the fact that people from Palestinian territories have committed acts of terror against Israel well before Hamas were a thing?

They did this when they were displaced after 1967 also, hence being kicked out of Jordan and Egypt, as well as Kuwait for supporting the Iraqi invasion in 1991.

They're not the historically peace-loving people you want to believe they are, because as a collective they have a rather troubled history in the middle-east that doesn't solely involve Israel.

Does this mean they deserve the treatment Israel have inflicted upon them? Of course not, they're complicit in breeding hatred against them from Palestinians and are certainly the main reason many of them either empathize, or openly support, the Jihadi cause.

Obviously this doesn't apply to every Palestinian so yes, I get your point about putting everyone under a blanket when they don't all deserve to be under there.

If someone said:

If the Jews would stop bombing babies...

... about this conflict I'd hope we'd all have the shits with them for saying the same thing. Its just unnecessarily inflammatory language.

There's been plenty alluding to this.

Also, as an aside, people seem quite happy to blame the 'Americans' instead of the US government for many of the atrocities they've committed over the decades.

it's the same thing yet people freely do it, then ironically pull you up when you reference a different group in the same way, just like you have in this instance(not suggesting you're one of them btw).

 

[ferball]

head of Local Council.......does he have any control over the IDF?

I have never said there are not lunatics in Israel, there were also members of government who suggested the use of nuclear bombs for example. Doesn't mean this is what is transpiring.

I know this clown probably has me on ignore but once upon a time those sorts of people used to say all sorts of similar things about indigenous people and at the time Australia was committing genocide on indigenous people.

There is a connection between what people who have a major role in the state or in a society say and how that society acts.

 

[geoffjennings79]

The AJA doctored the video?!

Surely not. Crikey's investigation is obviously anti-Semitic.

 

[ferball]

You quoted me. I haven't posted in here for a while.

Like I said I've been at the creek. Its mid 30s and aboput 185% humidity here.

It's literally 2 people who didn't understand it.

Its more than that.

The observation I made was about history since 1948, not the current conflict.

You mean since all this s**t started one group's behaviour has been framed as terrorism and one group's behaviour has been framed as self defense? Well * me what a surprise...

Are you high?

*en oath. Its hot and sticky and I just spent four hours with my crazy kids at the creek.

Are you?

BTW My highness or otherwise has nothing to do with the idea that Israel runs some of the most sophisticated Psy-Ops on the planet. I can be high and that can be true at the same time.

 

[bzparkes]

You mean since all this s**t started one group's behaviour has been framed as terrorism and one group's behaviour has been framed as self defense? Well * me what a surprise...

Well, groups from Palestinian territories have committed countless acts of terror against Israel. This is a fact and not something that's up for debate.

That's not to say Israel haven't done the same, by the way. People do seem very willing to forgive the perpetrators from the Palestinian side and offer 'context' however, whilst condemning the Israeli side for their acts.

Both acts of terror by either side are equally s**t and no act of terror against civilians can ever be justified.

BTW My highness or otherwise has nothing to do with the idea that Israel runs some of the most sophisticated Psy-Ops on the planet. I can be high and that can be true at the same time.

Sure they do, I don't think anyone's trying to debate this though.

 

[Kurve]

Recognising Israel is doing some horrendous things?

Iran was actually bragging about how successful the October 7 Hamas attack has been. If I can find the clip I'll post it.

 

[ferball]

Are you ignoring the fact that people from Palestinian territories have committed acts of terror against Israel well before Hamas were a thing?

They did this when they were displaced after 1967 also, hence being kicked out of Jordan and Egypt, as well as Kuwait for supporting the Iraqi invasion in 1991.

They're not the historically peace-loving people you want to believe they are, because as a collective they have a rather troubled history in the middle-east that doesn't solely involve Israel.

Does this mean they deserve the treatment Israel have inflicted upon them? Of course not, they're complicit in breeding hatred against them from Palestinians and are certainly the main reason many of them either empathize, or openly support, the Jihadi cause.

Obviously this doesn't apply to every Palestinian so yes, I get your point about putting everyone under a blanket when they don't all deserve to be under there.

Put yourself in your shoes. Odds are you'd be doing the same thing. All of the troubles come after they were effectively told half the country they thought was theirs wasn't any more and all of the conflict and displacement that followed it.

Your comments ignore that Fatah and the PLO both turned their back on terrorism and recognised Israel had a right to exist after Arafat and Rabin made peace with each other and since Rabin was killed (by someone from what would be called Israel's ruling ideology now) all they've experienced is more violence, theft and insult.

There's been plenty alluding to this.

Also, as an aside, people seem quite happy to blame the 'Americans' instead of the US government for many of the atrocities they've committed over the decades.

it's the same thing yet people freely do it, then ironically pull you up when you reference a different group in the same way, just like you have in this instance(not suggesting you're one of them btw).

I'm sure I've done that plenty of times. Its an easy thing to do and we all do it but in situations as fraught as this one I think its worth us all making the effort to be a bit more careful about what we say and how we say it. I don't want to encourage Nazis or Israel's increasing resemblance to them.

If you feel someone is making anti Semitic remarks quote them and call it out or contact the mods.