Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack.

[Crankyhawk]

This is reductionist and paints a false narrative.

An almost negligible higher % of Jews want a one-state solution in comparison to Palestinians. Ok. Do those Jews support the complete genocide of Palestinians? Conversely, how many of the opposite side do? There's no moral equivalence.

Hamas was voted in by the people of Palestine. That doesn't mean they all support the genocide of Jews, but it does say a whole lot about their underlying views. The same can't be said about a majority of Jews in Israel with a straight face.

Though given the concerns raised about voter fraud in more mature democracies, is it crazy to suggest hamas may have stuffed the ballot boxes?

 

[ShanDog]

Though given the concerns raised about voter fraud in more mature democracies, is it crazy to suggest hamas may have stuffed the ballot boxes?

Good question - I don't know. Haven't seen or heard that claim but that doesn't mean it isn't out there. From what I understand they didn't win in the West Bank, so that would tentatively suggest they weren't cheating the whole system. Not sure about anything more though.

 

[FireKrakouer]

That failing is directly on the NSW government.

It was a deliberately provocative move and one that was not appropriate for a nation whose official foreign policy is for a two state solution.

We are never lighting up national landmarks for solidarity with Palestine every time the shoe is on the other foot.

The NSW government failed its people by inciting this

^ I hate this "look what you made me do" excuse that people wheel out for abhorrent behaviour. It's the same failing of logic that the "she shouldn't have been dressed that way" crowd use.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Ordinary people in Germany appear to have identified one of these men.

hope they are found.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

^ I hate this "look what you made me do" excuse that people wheel out for abhorrent behaviour. It's the same failing of logic that the "she shouldn't have been dressed that way" crowd use.

yep

blame someone else for someones shitty actions.

Standard 5 year old logic.

 

[Romeoh1]

"Israel has brought this on themselves"

You are normalizing the behavior of animals. Do better.

Well, whilst condemning the horrific actions of Hamas, it’s still possible to acknowledge that there are two sides in this fight, and that the Israeli govt has illegally occupied and oppressed the Palestinians for many, many years now.

 

[Jeremias]

Well, whilst condemning the horrific actions of Hamas, it’s still possible to acknowledge that there are two sides in this fight, and that the Israeli govt has illegally occupied and oppressed the Palestinians for many, many years now.

Sure. I have already said countless times in here that Israel is not a completely innocent party in this conflict.

It is absolutely possible to oppose the Israeli government's policies whilst also acknowledging that Hamas is a barbaric terrorist group and that Jews should be afforded a level of support and protection from them.

 

[Jeremias]

^ I hate this "look what you made me do" excuse that people wheel out for abhorrent behaviour. It's the same failing of logic that the "she shouldn't have been dressed that way" crowd use.

Correct. Well done. Continue to call it out in here and in society.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

"Israel brought this massacre on themselves"

"She deserved rape because she was wearing a mini skirt"

same same but different from these moronic hamas supporters.

 

[Unpredictable]

I mean what I said. It's all well and good to say nobody should get involved, but that's not how the world works. Never has and never will.

Well it's about time it does, if I'm not a muslim or pharisee then this battle has nothing to do with me or anyone else that isn't.

If the zionists & these pharisees in "Israel" only listened to the Neturei Karta this wouldn't even be happening now.

Listen to the Sultan here when he refused to sell land to Herzl, and then tell me why incompetent politicians ever expected to see peace in this place,

Sultan Abdul Hamid II refused the offer outright in 1896, telling Newlinski, "if Mr Herzl is as much your friend as you are mine, then advise him not to take another step in this matter. I cannot sell even a foot of land, for it does not belong to me but to my people. My people have won this Empire by fighting for it with their blood and have fertilised it with their blood. We will again cover it with our blood before we allow it to be wrested away from us."

 

[Cameron_Jezza]

How much land in in dispute?
Of say 10,000 square kilometres, how much does isreal want? How much does Palestine want?
Just wondering. Surely United Nations can sort this out.

 

[Bloods86]

Though given the concerns raised about voter fraud in more mature democracies, is it crazy to suggest hamas may have stuffed the ballot boxes?

In that 2006 election... Hamas got 44.5% of the vote, they just got proportionally more seats (to form a majority). Fatah, mired in corruption scandals and a failure to make headway with Israel, got 41.4%. If you look at the broad positions of the minor parties that got the remainder, those that favour a 2 state solution and (more) peaceful means slightly outweigh those that didn't (maybe 1 or 2%). So a fairly even split, which also doesn't mean that those who voted for Hamas all did so out of ideological adherence, but frustration and despair. As I said before, not a good choice for anyone, but it doesn't support some characterisations being made of Palestinians.

There was apparently exit polling and post election polling that indicated corruption was a leading factor in voting, and a clear majority wanted Hamas to change its position on Israel's right to exist (63% or 75% from the 2 polls). Though obviously I don't know how reliable that polling is.

 

[beez]

Can anyone recommend any books about the history of the Israel-Palestine conflict?

This is an article from the WSJ from 2009 that examines the roots of Hamas and Fatah and goes to explaining some of the conflict.

https://archive.ph/2023.10.09-063410/https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123275572295011847

Surveying the wreckage of a neighbor's bungalow hit by a Palestinian rocket, retired Israeli official Avner Cohen traces the missile's trajectory back to an "enormous, stupid mistake" made 30 years ago.
"Hamas, to my great regret, is Israel's creation," says Mr. Cohen, a Tunisian-born Jew who worked in Gaza for more than two decades. Responsible for religious affairs in the region until 1994, Mr. Cohen watched the Islamist movement take shape, muscle aside secular Palestinian rivals and then morph into what is today Hamas, a militant group that is sworn to Israel's destruction.
Instead of trying to curb Gaza's Islamists from the outset, says Mr. Cohen, Israel for years tolerated and, in some cases, encouraged them as a counterweight to the secular nationalists of the Palestine Liberation Organization and its dominant faction, Yasser Arafat's Fatah. Israel cooperated with a crippled, half-blind cleric named Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, even as he was laying the foundations for what would become Hamas. Sheikh Yassin continues to inspire militants today; during the recent war in Gaza, Hamas fighters confronted Israeli troops with "Yassins," primitive rocket-propelled grenades named in honor of the cleric.

Rise and Kill First by Ronen Bergman looks at the history of Israel's intelligence services

Catch 67 - The Left, the Right, and the Legacy of the Six Day War by Micah Goodman

Six Days of War - June 1967 and the Making of the Modern Middle East by Michael Oren

There's also a biography of King Hussein of Jordan - which I can't remember the name or author - that goes through his entire life from his Western education to his ascension to the throne in the 1950s, to his relationship with other Arab states and how he had so many conflicting decisions regarding the Suez Crisis and all throughout the 1960s and 1970s. Any book on the King of Jordan is going to inform you regarding the plight of Palestinians.

And for that matter, any book on Gamal Abdel Nasser - the President of Egypt - will give you a similar understanding of Arab nationalism and the complexities of Arab coalitions.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Well it's about time it does, if I'm not a muslim or pharisee then this battle has nothing to do with me or anyone else that isn't.

If the zionists & these pharisees in "Israel" only listened to the Neturei Karta this wouldn't even be happening now.

Listen to the Sultan here when he refused to sell land to Herzl, and then tell me why incompetent politicians ever expected to see peace in this place,

Sultan Abdul Hamid II refused the offer outright in 1896, telling Newlinski, "if Mr Herzl is as much your friend as you are mine, then advise him not to take another step in this matter. I cannot sell even a foot of land, for it does not belong to me but to my people. My people have won this Empire by fighting for it with their blood and have fertilised it with their blood. We will again cover it with our blood before we allow it to be wrested away from us."

And before Hamid, it was someone else land, and before that it was someone elses all the way back to the ****ing dinosaurs.

Terrorists killing innocent people and kids does not excuse the fact its Terrorism. These people are not liberators. They are murderers and cowards, hiding behind their own civilians and hostages right now as they are bombed into next century.

 

[Bloods86]

How much land in in dispute?
Of say 10,000 square kilometres, hoe much does isreal want? How much does Palestine want?
Just wondering. Surely United Nations can sort this out.

The UN has said that Israeli settlements are in occupied territory, which is illegal. Which is also a war crime according to the Geneva Convention. Israel just ignores it and has some friends with veto power if anything too meaningful comes up.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Just about weeping, seeing footage of a sweet family of mother, two tiny children and her parents being terrorised and kidnapped, while our streets have been surrendered to the supporters of terrorism. Our politicians are cowering, so scared of being accused of being anti Muslim that they can’t defend our Jewish community. Extremists will win if we don’t stand up to them.

 

[MPMonkeys]

People on here more or less implying that Israeli citizens deserve what happened to them is contemptible.

The amount of anti Jewish sentiment in Australia has been bubbling along for quite some time and now we see it start coming to the surface.

The morons in Sydney last night are just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Anyone who votes Green, at any level, should be deeply ashamed of them, and themselves.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Get rid of the lot of them

Eastern Sydney Greens councillors boycott vote condemning Hamas​

Two Greens councillors were among a group who walked out of vote condemning Hamas and their brutal attacks in Israel at a Woollahra council meeting.

Mind you - rates, roads, rubbish…

 

[MC Bad Genius]

People on here more or less implying that Israeli citizens deserve what happened to them is contemptible.

I don't understand why people make strawman arguments. It just makes you look a bit out of your depth.

 

[vindaloo]

Get rid of the lot of them

Eastern Sydney Greens councillors boycott vote condemning Hamas​

Two Greens councillors were among a group who walked out of vote condemning Hamas and their brutal attacks in Israel at a Woollahra council meeting.

Mind you - rates, roads, rubbish…

Those councilors should be named and shamed. And canceled. They probably would have been at the rally that had people chanting 'gas the Jews'.

 

[2 eazy]

Simple question for the usual apologists ..... does Israel have the right to exist or not? no semantics, no what about isms, a simple yes or no?

Just remember a possible two state solution was proposed way before WW2 by the British as a result of the Peel Commission google it .... who opposed it? Mohammed Amin al-Husseini, yep the same guy that got into bed with Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy

Problem is Jews got 60% of land yet only had 15% of population in the area. Yes Israel deserve a state of their own but they got too much in the beginning and their settlements, blockade and apartheid are cause of this. Sad for all civilians caught up on both sides. I have seen video of an American Jew going to a Palestine house they lived in for years and kicked the family out.

 

[2 eazy]

I urge you all watch this video below it goes into great detail on the living conditions of Palestine people in Gaza this you never hear main stream media. Simply heart breaking and informing.

 

[boncer34]

Problem is Jews got 60% of land yet only had 15% of population in the area. Yes Israel deserve a state of their own but they got too much in the beginning and their settlements, blockade and apartheid are cause of this. Sad for all civilians caught up on both sides. I have seen video of an American Jew going to a Palestine house they lived in for years and kicked the family out.

Link?

 

[52Goals4inGranny]

I think the best thing going forward is to get rid of Netanyahu and Hamas, have more moderate leaders, prosecute war crimes, stop and reverse illegal Israeli settlements and sign a peace plan.

The reason we have these crazy long conflicts these days that never seem to end is because of modern sensibilities and morals.

In the old days they would just subjugate them, and the ones that wouldn’t bend the knee would be wiped out.

The best and quickest thing for the world is for Israel to absolutely destroy them and hit them with fire they have never experienced