Mid East Israel declare war after Hamas attack.

[Mobbs]

Is this the endgame?

I think the Gazans should be relocated into Egypt.
Into pre-1967 Egypt.
The Gaza bit.
Without Israel in it.

 

[Maggie5]

Ok so which one of the following values are you unclear about or disagree with?
Commitment to the Rule of Law.
Parliamentary Democracy.
Freedom of speech.
Freedom of association.
Freedom of religion.
Equality of all people.
Equality of opportunity.
Mutual respect and tolerance.

Are they values or rights as a citizen?

 

[Jello_B]

I think the point is, that if we are talking about what makes 'Australian values' Australian, there has to be some form of demarcation between Australian values, and the values of other countries.


I'm guessing that Australian values was originally raised in some conversation about the lack of 'assimilation' of a specific race or group of people.

So if there isn't any real distinction between 'Australian values' and a broad, legally accurate collection of statements that many countries share. It would probably be a form of Dog Whistle.
Something that sounds strong and nationalistic, without actually having any substance when addressed.

Just because some people use the values incorrectly doesn’t make them bad. Nothing wrong with having a set of values, and countries having different values is fine also. I don’t get what the big issue is of saying as a country this is the way we do things and being welcoming of those that align with our values. It doesn’t need to be racism.

 

[Jello_B]

Are they values or rights as a citizen?

They are values. To me rights are more prescriptive, yes or no type things. Values can be more nuanced, they manifest into community behaviours.

 

[Jello_B]

They are values. To me rights are more prescriptive, yes or no type things. Values can be more nuanced, they manifest into community behaviours.

And why would you disagree without comment on something like this Maggie5 ? Do you understand the difference between values and rights? (Btw you can just check the document it has a heading “values” for this list, I’m just trying to help you understand the difference).

 

[Maggie5]

And why would you disagree without comment on something like this Maggie5 ? Do you understand the difference between values and rights? (Btw you can just check the document it has a heading “values” for this list, I’m just trying to help you understand the difference).

I did read the document! Not sure that you understand the difference. further why would someone link the document as an example as I am not sure the majority of natural born Australians could answer the many questions on there, nor do they uphold them.

There are only two things (mutual respect and tolerance) that may be considered as values.

A value to me are things like honesty, respect, mateship, tolerance, integrity, responsibility of ones actions etc.

There was a great deal of controversy when that document was published and it wasn't positive.

 

[CM86]

Just because some people use the values incorrectly doesn’t make them bad. Nothing wrong with having a set of values, and countries having different values is fine also. I don’t get what the big issue is of saying as a country this is the way we do things and being welcoming of those that align with our values. It doesn’t need to be racism.

Fair enough.

My reply to you, was when I thought you genuinely didn't understand.
Now you've made it clear that you were just pretending you didn't understand.

I did read the document! Not sure that you understand the difference. further why would someone link the document as an example as I am sure the majority of natural born Australians could answer the many questions on there, nor do they uphold them.

There are only two things (mutual respect and tolerance) that may be considered as values.

A value to me are things like honesty, respect, mateship, tolerance, integrity, responsibility of ones actions etc.

There was a great deal of controversy when that document was published and it wasn't positive.

This is just a ridiculous tangent to deflect from whatever they were originally trying to defend.

The snide 'trying to help you understand the difference' is bait.
Waste of time.

 

[Maggie5]

Fair enough.

My reply to you, was when I thought you genuinely didn't understand.
Now you've made it clear that you were just pretending you didn't understand.



This is just a ridiculous tangent to deflect from whatever they were originally trying to defend.

The snide 'trying to help you understand the difference' is bait.
Waste of time.

Seems a shame to me that people can't list values without referring to a Citizenship document.

 

[Jello_B]

I did read the document! Not sure that you understand the difference. further why would someone link the document as an example as I am sure the majority of natural born Australians could answer the many questions on there, nor do they uphold them.

There are only two things (mutual respect and tolerance) that may be considered as values.

A value to me are things like honesty, respect, mateship, tolerance, integrity, responsibility of ones actions etc.

There was a great deal of controversy when that document was published and it wasn't positive.

Do you mean “couldn’t” not “could”. The values to you and that you list are all correct but are very general. That’s why you see lots of company values that are so similar.

Any government document which tries to articulate 20M+ people’s values is going to create controversy, it would be impossible not to. Because there are 20M+ different people with different values.

Going back to the original discussion, a poster was talking about Australia’s values and then the document was linked. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion, it’s a generally accepted baseline for which new people looking to immigrate are tested against to understand if they will fit into the Australian way of life. You will always find exceptions, it doesn’t mean the values have no value.

 

[Jello_B]

Fair enough.

My reply to you, was when I thought you genuinely didn't understand.
Now you've made it clear that you were just pretending you didn't understand.



This is just a ridiculous tangent to deflect from whatever they were originally trying to defend.

The snide 'trying to help you understand the difference' is bait.
Waste of time.

This is an out there post, … thanks for your help I guess <shrugs shoulders>

 

[Jello_B]

Seems a shame to me that people can't list values without referring to a Citizenship document.

Anyone can, but what’s the point of that, it is a single view and invites instant dismissal from those looking for a channel to push their point. Linking a foundational document shouldn’t offend anyone.

 

[Maggie5]

Going back to the original discussion, a poster was talking about Australia’s values and then the document was linked. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion, it’s a generally accepted baseline for which new people looking to immigrate are tested against to understand if they will fit into the Australian way of life. You will always find exceptions, it doesn’t mean the values have no value.

Okay that is your opinion with which I disagree as the document is useless in reference to 'values'.

To link a document shows ignorance as not knowing them.

The End.

 

[BobbyMorri]

Its amazing how Benjamin Netanyahu has turned the whole world against Israel in under a month.

The more he doubles down, the more isolated he will become.

Can't wait til he loses power. The sooner, the better.

 

[Jello_B]

Great video

Very good video, a lot of hope there.

 

[Jello_B]

what are posters thoughts on the best (not likely) governing body to takeover the regions once the war stops. Can’t be Israel or US. Or are people still thinking something larger will kick off

 

[schneebly111]

Can't wait til he loses power. The sooner, the better.

The only real alternatives in the PM role are Lapid and Gantz, and both are pro war in Gaza. They may halt new settlements in the West Bank but they won’t evict any of the settlers from their current settlements (near 2 million). They won’t make real moves towards a two state solution.

Their only advantage over Netanyahu is they aren’t as corrupt. But the occupation will continue under any alternative government.

 

[schneebly111]

what are posters thoughts on the best (not likely) governing body to takeover the regions once the war stops. Can’t be Israel or US.

Let’s face reality mate.

The US will either be ruled by Republicans or Democrats. Both are pro Israel.

Israel will be ruled by Likud or some bland centrist coalition that’s just as pro occupation as Likud.

There won’t be any change in the status quo.

 

[Cuzz09]

what are posters thoughts on the best (not likely) governing body to takeover the regions once the war stops. Can’t be Israel or US. Or are people still thinking something larger will kick off

AFL

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Blue1980]

AFL

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

The 20th team?

 

[Al Heimer]

There won’t be any change in the status quo.

Pie in the sky stuff but as the whole region is dominated by men, maybe if by some chance a majority of women are able to take control of things we might see a status quo change wholly for the better.

On SM-A426B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Pie in the sky stuff but as the whole region is dominated by men, maybe if by some chance a majority of women are able to take control of things we might see a status quo change wholly for the better.

On SM-A426B using BigFooty.com mobile app

As if

 

[Cuzz09]

he said pie in the sky

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[ferball]

They are values. To me rights are more prescriptive, yes or no type things. Values can be more nuanced, they manifest into community behaviours.

This is why we need we need a bill of rights. So things like those can be the minimum expectation of people in Australia as far as rights go.

IE Do we have the right to equality of opportunity?

Its legally mandated, so the answer is "Yes" and anyone who acts in a way that denies people equal opportunity (ie acts like the answer is "No",) is in breach of the law.

 

[ferball]

Let’s face reality mate.

The US will either be ruled by Republicans or Democrats. Both are pro Israel.

Israel will be ruled by Likud or some bland centrist coalition that’s just as pro occupation as Likud.

There won’t be any change in the status quo.

Not till people on both sides who just want peace for themselves and their descendants have a chance to drive the agenda. **** knows when that will happen.

 

[ferball]

Whilst we sit here and argue semantics, and tit for tat and definitions, blame games etc, this is happening.

Siblings trying to get some water to drink.

View attachment 1850852

Jennifer Tierney speaking on ABC

I’d like to hope we all have some humanity and agree on common ground.

Hope a ceasefire and peace is close by.

This is gut wrenching.

I'm in PTSD counselling now for a bunch of things - one was something I had to do and on the way out to do it I allowed myself one second to think "If this goes wrong my kids will never see me again". It had to be done tho.

And it ate at me afterward even tho we got what we needed to done.

Seeing this kid's eyes is like a kick in the guts.

And i know there are people on both sides of this conflict suffering the loss of kids. (An definitely more on one side than another but that doesn't change anyone of those people's pain on either side.)

There has to be a ceasefire now.

Enough is enough. This just has to end.