It's Time

[Caramelas13]

Its time for us Crows supporters to realize that we will not win another flag with Neil Craig and John Reid in the key roles of our football club. This is not being negative. This is the truth. We have no style of play. We keep hearing the same excuses week in week out. Today made me realize that we are a mediocare team and quickly developing into a mediocare club. Just when you think we will turn the corner, we continue to make the same mistakes. Our current style of play is terrible. It is a nothing style. We have no forward line pressure, we continue to get smashed in the clearances and we rely on our defence to save us every week. As much as i hate to say it, i'd rather we don't make the finals and we give players like McKay, Walker, Otten, kyte and Dangerfield (perhaps the Melbourne games only) the last 6 games and see what they are made of. We are not a top 8 side. Lets be honest. We have only strung 4 qtrs of football once this year (home against West Coast).

Craigy's press confrences continue to bore the crap out of me. Listening to him today you wouldn't have known if we had won or lost. He's a bloody scientist after all. Thats why our style of play is so methodical. It has to be perfect 99% of the time. How we lost todays game puzzles me. We were 2nd to the ball for most of the day and when we do take control of the game, we don't punish teams. Sometimes i think we have already lost the game before we even step on to the pitch. Thats how low my confidence is at the moment.

Once again it's another honourable loss. I'm starting to get sick of this. We as a football club shouldn't tolerate this. I'm sick of hearing "oh it was a good effort, they tried hard, bad luck boys". NO NO NO. Thats is the problem with us. The club has and a majority of our supporters have this type of attitude and it spreads on to the footy field and throughout our club. I thought Port was a rabble but today proved we have gone backwards since 2006 and the window of opportunity has firmly shut on us on winning a flag. We had our chance in 2005 & 2006. We stuffed it up and god knows when an opportunity like that will come around again.

 

[King Elvis]

We will win a Flag under Craigy; he's the best man for the job, no doubt what so ever.

 

[Alex99]

I had this (not quite the same) discussion today watching the game and posed this question to the person whom I was talking to – take your mind back to round 16, 1996 (we lost to Sydney) and ask yourself if you gave us a snowflakes chance in hell of winning the 1997 premiership?

99.99 % of the football public would have said NO – that’s the beauty of football and sport in general, the unknown.

Now – if Neil Craig doesn’t follow through with his predicted aggressive list management for season 2009, you have every reason to ask this line of questioning but you never know what can happen.

 

[Caramelas13]

We will win a Flag under Craigy; he's the best man for the job, no doubt what so ever.

Can you please tell me how? We had the best team in the AFL in 05 & 06 and he couldn't even take us to a GF. 4 goals up in a home prelim final and we still can't make it. He continues to be stubborn, slow to react to situations and too scared to make the tough calls.

How players like Scott Stevens, Kris Massie, Luke Jerricho & Ken McGregor continue to be on our list puzzles me. They are SANFL players. Thats it. They will not take us the next step.

Look i thought Craigy was the man but teams in the AFL have sussed us out. He has no Plan B and at the moment our Plan A is dogshit.

 

[Caramelas13]

I had this (not quite the same) discussion today watching the game and posed this question to the person whom I was talking to – take your mind back to round 16, 1996 (we lost to Sydney) and ask yourself if you gave us a snowflakes chance in hell of winning the 1997 premiership?

99.99 % of the football public would have said NO – that’s the beauty of football and sport in general, the unknown.

Now – if Neil Craig doesn’t follow through with his predicted aggressive list management for season 2009, you have every reason to ask this line of questioning but you never know what can happen.

Back then we had players who could make a difference. Darren Jarman, Kane Johnson, Mark Bickley, Shaun Rhen, Nigel Smart, Roo, Macca etc.... These players had the ability to win a match on their own. Add a coach like Malcolm Blight and we had a chance to suprise teams.

Name me some players on our current list who can turn a game on its head like the above players i mentioned???

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Caramelas13, did you ring in to 5AA after the game?

 

[Caramelas13]

Caramelas13, did you ring in to 5AA after the game?

Nah mate. But i bet you think i'm the bloke who called for the sacking of JR just before Mark Williams did his press conference.

I agreed 100% with his call, hence why i started this thread. Driving back home today after the game i thought to myself we can't be happy with what has happened today. Ok, a lot of people had us in the bottom 4 at the start of the year. But when you look at the competition, there is only 1 team that is way ahead of anyone. Perhaps you can add the Bulldogs & the Hawks but apart from them the rest of the comp is up for grabs. We shouldn't be happy to be 8-8 after being 8-3. Realisticly we should be 11-5. Should have beaten Hawthorn, Brisbane and the Scums today. Not acceptable.

 

[Drummond]

I must say I am getting pretty concerned. Craig is just so stubborn, so stuck in his ways that we are going to be seriously limited. His refusal to play and show faith in the youngsters is just so disappointing. He declared during the PS that he was going to play the youngsters and place no limitations on them and yet he’s doing exactly that. He promised it and yet he’s doing the complete opposite. Let’s be honest, if he had stayed true to his word then Otten and Walker would be playing, Mackay wouldn’t have been dropped, Petrenko would have been upgraded and probably would have played too.

I am really frustrated because I no longer feel as though NC is the man for the job. His press conferences are always the same and always leave me feeling really flat. Take today for example, we’ve just lost another game, in part thanks to a forward line that doesn’t function, and he’s ruled out Walker who has kicked 37 goals in 11 games. He and Reid harp on about how he needs to be more consistent and yet over the past 3 weeks he’s kicked 4, 5 and 4 goals. His defensive pressure isn’t up to standard, and yet there’s Jericho playing and applying no pressure. Heck Jericho would have been a worthy winner of the Showdown Medal today such as the assistance he provided the Power.

I know training is important so Southerntakeover you don’t need to go on about it again, but IMO he places a ridiculous amount of emphasis on it. No doubt training form is considered more significant than SANFL outputs. I could be way off on this one but I just get the feeling he reads a little too much into training ‘form’. Jericho does nothing in the AFL, barely does anything with Norwood, so he must be making an impression somewhere, the only place left is the training track. Look at the quote in regards to Petrenko during the week, about how his training has improved and his attitude (to training) has improved. He’s a preparation man, not a head coach. I'd take what they do on game time over what they produce on the training track any day.

Mediocrity and conservatism are the two key words of the AFC at present. Of course you should always be satisfied with making the 8 but Craig seems to put off rebuilding and retooling just to make the 8. If the choice is to be made of getting more games and valuable experience into the kids or making the 8 only to be making up the numbers, I'd go with the former option any day. Something tells me we chose the other option...

 

[Caramelas13]

I must say I am getting pretty concerned. Craig is just so stubborn, so stuck in his ways that we are going to be seriously limited. His refusal to play and show faith in the youngsters is just so disappointing. He declared during the PS that he was going to play the youngsters and place no limitations on them and yet he’s doing exactly that. He promised it and yet he’s doing the complete opposite. Let’s be honest, if he had stayed true to his word then Otten and Walker would be playing, Mackay wouldn’t have been dropped, Petrenko would have been upgraded and probably would have played too.

I am really frustrated because I no longer feel as though NC is the man for the job. His press conferences are always the same and always leave me feeling really flat. Take today for example, we’ve just lost another game, in part thanks to a forward line that doesn’t function, and he’s ruled out Walker who has kicked 37 goals in 11 games. He and Reid harp on about how he needs to be more consistent and yet over the past 3 weeks he’s kicked 4, 5 and 4 goals. His defensive pressure isn’t up to standard, and yet there’s Jericho playing and applying no pressure. Heck Jericho would have been a worthy winner of the Showdown Medal today such as the assistance he provided the Power.

I know training is important so Southerntakeover you don’t need to go on about it again, but IMO he places a ridiculous amount of emphasis on it. No doubt training form is considered more significant than SANFL outputs. I could be way off on this one but I just get the feeling he reads a little too much into training ‘form’. Jericho does nothing in the AFL, barely does anything with Norwood, so he must be making an impression somewhere, the only place left is the training track. Look at the quote in regards to Petrenko during the week, about how his training has improved and his attitude (to training) has improved. He’s a preparation man, not a head coach. I'd take what they do on game time over what they produce on the training track any day.

Mediocrity and conservatism are the two key words of the AFC at present. Of course you should always be satisfied with making the 8 but Craig seems to put off rebuilding and retooling just to make the 8. If the choice is to be made of getting more games and valuable experience into the kids or making the 8 only to be making up the numbers, I'd go with the former option any day. Something tells me we chose the other option...

Well said. Hence why we are the only club in the AFL never to have a top 5 draft pick. Our club is way too proud and would never like to have a poor season. Look at West Coast. They have done it superbly. In their window of opportunity they made 2 GF's and won one. They have acknowledged they wont compete with the big guns this year so they have tried many of their younger kids and have given them a year of AFL experience. They will now get a top 2 draft pick and they will be back in the mix of it next season. We blew our chance. 2 prelims was a bad return for all our dominance in 05 and 06.

 

[SellarStardom]

Craig can do it, we could of in 05 or 06 but had a mental problem with West Coast. Fact is we have held onto old champs and now have 5 30+ players on the ground whilst the others have moved players on, we are in transition with a decent backline, average servicable midfield and crappy forward line.

Biggest problems are line braking midfielders, goal kicking midfielders and forwards. This just takes time. None of this window crap its about confidence and a half decent list, Hawthorn, Sydney and Bulldogs have a few guns but basically just a side full of confidence as they have strength in those key areas we are lacking

 

[Crow-mo]

We will win a Flag under Craigy; he's the best man for the job, no doubt what so ever.

I'll take that bet.

we will absolutely win a flag under Craig?

 

[Asgardian]

take your mind back to round 16, 1996 (we lost to Sydney) and ask yourself if you gave us a snowflakes chance in hell of winning the 1997 premiership?

The Crows did sack (invited him to leave) Robert Shaw at the end of 1996 & appointed Blight

Got a million bucks hanging around to tempt him back?

 

[MightyAFC]

Agree 100% with OP. We have too many boring robotic ppl at our club. Our guys look too scared to show a bit of individulality. Neil Craig while he may be a great assistant coach hasnt got what it takes to get us to the next level. Week in week out i'm sick of hearing "we'll need to get all our players on board and play a 4qtr effort" How many times does this need to be said before it happens? When was the last time you saw one of our players take a shot from the boundary? Dribble through a goal? Actually take a risk??? You look at the likes of Collingwood. Medhurst, Didak, Thomas, Davis. All players that are flashy, individual and love taking a risk. These are the players we need at our footy club, not scientistic robots. As the Roo has said once he retired, the footyclub just wasnt any fun....Sorry Craigy, you've done a good job, but we need someone that'll get this footyclub back to what it should be....a footy club.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

I'll take that bet.

we will absolutely win a flag under Craig?

Lets hope so but we are along way off at the moment - probably the furtherest away we have been in the last 15 years.

Look at Geelong/hawthorn/Bulldogs, most of their good players are in the important 24-29 age group. Do we have enough quality players in this age group to take us to a premiership in the next 3 years. No way. This is where our wasted 1st draft picks between 2000-2004 come back to bite us on the ass.

1st tier:

Johncock
Thompson
Rutten
Bock

2nd/3rd tier:

Doughty
Shirtley
Stevens
Massie
Campbell
Reilly


Not up to AFL std:

Jericho
Gill
McGregor


I think Craigy has done a good job since he took over but unfortunately for him, he has poor timing as he has come at time when we have just experienced our worst recruiting period of our 18 year history.

 

[WALL-e]

Lets hope so but we are along way off at the moment - probably the furtherest away we have been in the last 15 years.

Look at Geelong/hawthorn/Bulldogs, most of their good players are in the important 24-29 age group. Do we have enough quality players in this age group to take us to a premiership in the next 3 years. No way. This is where our wasted 1st draft picks between 2000-2004 come back to bite us on the ass.

1st tier:

Johncock
Thompson
Rutten
Bock

2nd/3rd tier:

Doughty
Shirtley
Stevens
Massie
Campbell
Reilly


Not up to AFL std:

Jericho
Gill
McGregor


I think Craigy has done a good job since he took over but unfortunately for him, he has poor timing as he has come at time when we have just experienced our worst recruiting period of our 18 year history.

Agree here, and of the first tier, 2 are rookie drafted players and one was aquired through trade.

Craigy is still cleaning up Ayres' mess.

We have the right coach for the job.

 

[kaij10]

I dont care who coached us, just as long as we win a flag! if that means bye bye Craigy so be it!

 

[beartoo]

Two words explain our dilemma.
Overtrained. Again.
We haven't had any run in our legs for about 6 weeks. Craig's answer? He's planning to train them harder so they can see out 4 quarters, because in his view we are not fit enough. I can't remember exactly what he said yesterday, but that's the gist of it.
Give them a week off and then see the difference.

 

[Cap]

Its time for us Crows supporters to realize that we will not win another flag with Neil Craig and John Reid in the key roles of our football club. This is not being negative. This is the truth. We have no style of play. We keep hearing the same excuses week in week out. Today made me realize that we are a mediocare team and quickly developing into a mediocare club. Just when you think we will turn the corner, we continue to make the same mistakes. Our current style of play is terrible. It is a nothing style. We have no forward line pressure, we continue to get smashed in the clearances and we rely on our defence to save us every week. As much as i hate to say it, i'd rather we don't make the finals and we give players like McKay, Walker, Otten, kyte and Dangerfield (perhaps the Melbourne games only) the last 6 games and see what they are made of. We are not a top 8 side. Lets be honest. We have only strung 4 qtrs of football once this year (home against West Coast).

Craigy's press confrences continue to bore the crap out of me. Listening to him today you wouldn't have known if we had won or lost. He's a bloody scientist after all. Thats why our style of play is so methodical. It has to be perfect 99% of the time. How we lost todays game puzzles me. We were 2nd to the ball for most of the day and when we do take control of the game, we don't punish teams. Sometimes i think we have already lost the game before we even step on to the pitch. Thats how low my confidence is at the moment.

Once again it's another honourable loss. I'm starting to get sick of this. We as a football club shouldn't tolerate this. I'm sick of hearing "oh it was a good effort, they tried hard, bad luck boys". NO NO NO. Thats is the problem with us. The club has and a majority of our supporters have this type of attitude and it spreads on to the footy field and throughout our club. I thought Port was a rabble but today proved we have gone backwards since 2006 and the window of opportunity has firmly shut on us on winning a flag. We had our chance in 2005 & 2006. We stuffed it up and god knows when an opportunity like that will come around again.

so when do you think you'll make a positive comment about the crows ? 19 posts all negative (or close enough)

The team has clearly hit a wall and we are suffering but its time to go
Caramelas13

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Agree here, and of the first tier, 2 are rookie drafted players and one was aquired through trade.

Craigy is still cleaning up Ayres' mess.

We have the right coach for the job.

Good point on the rookies. And its not all Gary Ayres mess. Some of the other culprits are still at the club and still making decisions.

 

[Coopers]

Lets hope so but we are along way off at the moment - probably the furtherest away we have been in the last 15 years.

Look at Geelong/hawthorn/Bulldogs, most of their good players are in the important 24-29 age group. Do we have enough quality players in this age group to take us to a premiership in the next 3 years. No way. This is where our wasted 1st draft picks between 2000-2004 come back to bite us on the ass.

1st tier:

Johncock
Thompson
Rutten
Bock

2nd/3rd tier:

Doughty
Shirtley
Stevens
Massie
Campbell
Reilly


Not up to AFL std:

Jericho
Gill
McGregor


I think Craigy has done a good job since he took over but unfortunately for him, he has poor timing as he has come at time when we have just experienced our worst recruiting period of our 18 year history.

I agree that the bolded players will probably make way (most of them this year) for the next crop of youngsters - who will push us into a GF. A GF under craigy.

I think your "3 year" prophecy is right on the money. That's the kind of time we're looking at to have the current kids step up. I think at around the 3 year mark, we'll see something special from the likes of Tippet, walker, dangermouse, mackay, knighta, petrenko, kite, Maric, and Griff. Couple that with some good drafting this year (I hope) and the 4 blokes you listed as top tier above... and we're looking pretty good.

All is not lost.

 

[Caramelas13]

Capitalist, you seem to be one of those suporters who are accepting this slide of form and can't see at the other end of the tunnel. We are a shambles at the moment. It kills me to say it but we are. Look there are some good signs and there are a lot of bad ones. I guess my frustration is still there because we didn't win a premiership when we should have. I'd be able to accept this rebulding phase but at the moment i can't see where the next lot of "gun" players are going to come from.

I think all my points have been valid and i'm prepared to back my posts as i don't believe we will win a premiership with the style of football we are playing. We are too negative in our play. We keep hearing week in week out we will play a more attacking style. I haven't seen this happen since the second half against Richmond. Perhaps we don't have the personnel to execute this style.

Our forward line structure continues to get scrutenised every game. We get the ball inside 50 just as much as any other team but it comes out just as quick. We are always looking for the perfect pass & mark. We don't seem to have the numbers & the support when the ball falls to the ground. We must lock the ball in, create a contest, force turnovers etc....

 

[WALL-e]

Our recruiting has been very good since Craigy has been at the club. I like the aggressiveness of pickin PAtty before Ebert, but I wouls like more aggresiveness on the field too.

question marks over Reid, I want to see aggressive list management this offseason

 

[Cap]

Capitalist, you seem to be one of those suporters who are accepting this slide of form and can't see at the other end of the tunnel. We are a shambles at the moment. It kills me to say it but we are. Look there are some good signs and there are a lot of bad ones. I guess my frustration is still there because we didn't win a premiership when we should have. I'd be able to accept this rebulding phase but at the moment i can't see where the next lot of "gun" players are going to come from.

I think all my points have been valid and i'm prepared to back my posts as i don't believe we will win a premiership with the style of football we are playing. We are too negative in our play. We keep hearing week in week out we will play a more attacking style. I haven't seen this happen since the second half against Richmond. Perhaps we don't have the personnel to execute this style.

Our forward line structure continues to get scrutenised every game. We get the ball inside 50 just as much as any other team but it comes out just as quick. We are always looking for the perfect pass & mark. We don't seem to have the numbers & the support when the ball falls to the ground. We must lock the ball in, create a contest, force turnovers etc....

No I’m not a supporter that is excepting of our slide – I’m just feel that people are quick to turn on a coach and team for a short term blip.(ok a mid term blip)

Our forward line is a disaster – Delivery or no Delivery it’s a disaster – the fact that we essentially have a a 1st year player reflect where we stand atm.

The current slide IMO is two fold – our “up and comers” such as Vince, Douglas, Knights and to a lesser degree VB are not performing up to scratch and have fallen away (probably as expected but still frustrating) to compound this our old top tier players such as Goodwin, Edwards and Mcleod are having stinkers, I Don’t think this was expected especially the extent that it has happened.
Our team is virtually been run by Bock, Rutten Doughty and Thompson with other players making cameo appearances in the Best players.
I think our game plan is fine but the execution is gone we saw what happened in the first 11 rounds when all our players actually executed the game plan it was fine and we scored freely.

I’ll be honest – I don’t think we can make the finals, confidence is gone, our arguably two most influential players are gone, The only benefit we can gain is developing some of the younger guys further and dare I say it see if the likes of Petrneko and Otten are potential AFL standard players.

NC to me is still one of the Best AFL coaches and he has turned over a significant number of players and I think he will continue – however by next year if the likes of Douglas and Knights are not putting in more consistent top notch performances then I believe questions can start being asked. Should we end up 12th next year it probably also be time to start asking questions. But Craigy deserves to be tested through the next 18 months the last thing we need is to start the process again with a different coach who will want different things.

 

[Cap]

Our recruiting has been very good since Craigy has been at the club. I like the aggressiveness of pickin PAtty before Ebert, but I wouls like more aggresiveness on the field too.

question marks over Reid, I want to see aggressive list management this offseason

Why do people keep talking about Reidy ? someone give me evidence of his poor performance ?

 

[Caramelas13]

Capitalist, you make some good points. While NC does have a great coaching record i still have my doubts in the big pressure matches. We just don't seem to cut it when it has to count. His excuses or his post match analysis bore me to death. He is what i call a "Cut & paste man". Same old thing, week in week out. I fail to see the improvement and i don't like the way he tries and brainwashes all of our supporters in believing his methods. He is a smart person and he is able to convince alot of our supporters that our list is still good enough and that the premiership window is well and truly still open. I for one disagree with him and fail to see when our next premiership will come. I hope he proves me wrong.

As for JR, that bloke has cost us 2 premierships while Gary Ayers was our coach. He has stuffed up a lot of our important draft decisions and if it wasn't for him, we'd have Kane Cornes & Shaun Burgoyne playing for us. Instead we got a dud called Laurence Angwin and we all know what happened to him. We also gave up our high draft pick for Matthew Bode (the Power got SB). All these decisions made against the wish of James Fantasia and other important members of the club. He is too old school and we need a fresh approach in his position.