News Jack Dyer Stand may go in $60m Punt Road Oval redevelopment

[PetterdHoisted]

Gee theres some naive commentary in this thread.
- Roads are not being built over or put in tunnels. The club doesn't have the money and the state government has no interest in it.
- We're not getting a centimetre of parkland. The community would, rightly so, kick up an almighty stink.

We've proposed a scheme that is within our budget and that keeps the club together at Tigerland, at the expense of a stand that the local authorities have not deemed worthy of heritage listing. So it's a bit of a no-brainer for me.

The fact that the National Trust has taken an interest is not itself evidence that the stand deserves saving - it is their literal job to ask the question. I love what heritage we have (I actually make part of my living from heritage interpretation), but we go to some absurd extremes in this country.

Disagree regarding funding for construction, the government's, state and fed, main objective is to keep the construction industry working. Stimulate stimulate stimulate. Particularly a project which cleans up a major pedestrian safety hazard.

If not, maybe we could make a unilateral BRI with the Chinese gov to fund it

 

[The Goon]

Disagree regarding funding for construction, the government's, state and fed, main objective is to keep the construction industry working. Stimulate stimulate stimulate. Particularly a project which cleans up a major pedestrian safety hazard.

If not, maybe we could make a unilateral BRI with the Chinese gov to fund it

Yes regarding construction, but not for this project. The cost to make the area safe, say an elevated walkway, would be a fraction of the cost of lowering the road. Governments can be spendthrift, but it would be political suicide to fund that for the benefit of a football club when there are so many other projects they could fund. New hospital perhaps, new school in a marginal seat, etc, etc, etc.


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[Bojangles17]

This is interesting,

'After the 1964 season, the capacity of the venue was to be reduced to only 22,000, after much of the outer was to be lost to the widening by 50 ft of Punt Road, a notorious traffic bottleneck. Under the stewardship of President Ray Dunn, Richmond negotiated to move its home games to the Melbourne Cricket Ground starting from 1965.'

Why, it’s been well known for over 50y now

 

[Bojangles17]

Disagree regarding funding for construction, the government's, state and fed, main objective is to keep the construction industry working. Stimulate stimulate stimulate. Particularly a project which cleans up a major pedestrian safety hazard.

If not, maybe we could make a unilateral BRI with the Chinese gov to fund it

Never mind the political clout of where they choose to spend their money , like that’s unimportant

 

[PetterdHoisted]

Yes regarding construction, but not for this project. The cost to make the area safe, say an elevated walkway, would be a fraction of the cost of lowering the road. Governments can be spendthrift, but it would be political suicide to fund that for the benefit of a football club when there are so many other projects they could fund. New hospital perhaps, new school in a marginal seat, etc, etc, etc.


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absolutely, a footbridge is the only reasonable option.

and you package it as benefitting the whole MCG precinct safety-wise, and realising another genuine option for an AFLW stadium regarding PRO upgrade.

politically we need to exploit the mutual glee of the Federal Libs and Vic Labour in one-upping each other.

If we can find an angle that makes Scomo look silly, Dan will fund it.
If we can find an angle that makes Dan look silly, Scomo will fund it.

 

[Tigers Time]

 

[tora tora tora]

You do know that some of the facilities at within the new stand would be available to the local community to use, unlike the current stand which nobody can actually use as it can't be insured against risk.

We spent 37 years in the wilderness in part because our old facilities weren't updated until we were well into the 2000s. We were a success in the late 60s 70s and early 80s because we has outstanding coaches and players and training back then wasn't as advanced as it is now.

Clubs like WCE Essendon Hawks(Dingley) Lions are/have spent millions to upgrade to state if the art facilities and people here want us to fall behind so that a stand that is unusable isn't touched and somehow they also expect that we'll just continue to be one of the front runners in terms of trying to win premierships.

I know the Essendon football team moved out to Tullamarine. They have 2 great playing fields out there. Left Windy Hill behind. Don't know exactly what other facilities they have. (very good wave pool next door) I think they let some other sports team operate out of there. We have a lot of organisations using facilities at Punt Road.
The old suburban grandstands look great but if the national trust felt it was OK to get rid of old structure at the MCG, the home of Aussie Rules, then the JDS is probably less important. New facilities for womens teams should be a selling point. I forget how many floors the original plan was. Maybe go higher?
The JDS could dismantled, relocated to another site. (Junction Oval?) I watch TV shows where people move big structures around the country.
Do a bit of '1984" Name one of the new buildings the JGS/MCS. Start rewriting history. get aboard the Jack Graham/ Monique Conti trains

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I know the Essendon football team moved out to Tullamarine. They have 2 great playing fields out there. Left Windy Hill behind. Don't know exactly what other facilities they have. (very good wave pool next door) I think they let some other sports team operate out of there. We have a lot of organisations using facilities at Punt Road.
The old suburban grandstands look great but if the national trust felt it was OK to get rid of old structure at the MCG, the home of Aussie Rules, then the JDS is probably less important. New facilities for womens teams should be a selling point. Maybe the JDS could dismantled, relocated to another site. (Junction Oval?) I watch TV shows where people move big stuff around the country.
Name one of the new buildings the JGS/MCS. Start rewriting history. get aboard the Jack Graham/ Monique Conti trains

this is from wiki and explains the bombers decision:

In 2010, the Essendon Football Club sought an upgrade to its training facilities, and it elected to develop and entirely new facility in the suburb of Melbourne Airport. A major contributing factor was that the development at the new venue was not limited by size constraints which would have limited a redevelopment of Windy Hill; the club was also at the time in a well publicised dispute with the Essendon Bowls Club, which was still the ground manager of its portion of Windy Hill and was unwilling to cede its territory to the football club's redevelopment, but the football club indicated that it would have made the move to Melbourne Airport regardless of the bowls club's position. Essendon signed a 37-year lease at Melbourne Airport,[18] and moved its primary training and administrative base to the facility, known as The Hangar, in October 2013.[15] Essendon still holds a lease at Windy Hill which will expire after 2031;[18] the club uses the venue for home matches for its reserves team in the Victorian Football League, and maintains a social club and merchandise store on the site

 

[Muddiemoose]

this is from wiki and explains the bombers decision:

In 2010, the Essendon Football Club sought an upgrade to its training facilities, and it elected to develop and entirely new facility in the suburb of Melbourne Airport. A major contributing factor was that the development at the new venue was not limited by size constraints which would have limited a redevelopment of Windy Hill; the club was also at the time in a well publicised dispute with the Essendon Bowls Club, which was still the ground manager of its portion of Windy Hill and was unwilling to cede its territory to the football club's redevelopment, but the football club indicated that it would have made the move to Melbourne Airport regardless of the bowls club's position. Essendon signed a 37-year lease at Melbourne Airport,[18] and moved its primary training and administrative base to the facility, known as The Hangar, in October 2013.[15] Essendon still holds a lease at Windy Hill which will expire after 2031;[18] the club uses the venue for home matches for its reserves team in the Victorian Football League, and maintains a social club and merchandise store on the site

It’s also worth noting that windy hill is now a ghost town now and looking Extremely shabby
With Essendon’s priorities being at the new facility all the attention and money has been moved to that main site

If the stand stays the club moves facility’s and the punt road complex essentially becomes just a VFL ground or another club like Melbourne purchase it that would do more damage to the legacy and history of the area than removing the stand ever would imo

 

[Wacko23Jacko]

I'm sure the cricket club had no worries about ploughing the fields of all historical and cultural significance when they put an oval there (if they even did I don't know who built it)... But I guess that's not a super cool touchy feely "look at our marvel of engineering" kind of historical and cultural value, so it goes right over our heads.

What has more historical and cultural value to the locality?

1. Stand retained. Cricket club returns and uses the ground to play and train and 30 people sit in the stands. Richmond football club (one of the few AFL teams who actually reside in their suburb of origin) moves to Pakenham. Cricket club has less power and resources than RFC so stand just continues to wear down and die anyway. No refurbishment possible due to no funding.

2. Richmond remove stand and improve facilities allowing football team to train with top facilities, and a host of valuable social and cultural programs to be based there. Punt Road oval gets used by more members of the community and gives back more in opportunities to the community. Creates opportunity for more history to be created.

3. We find a s**t load of money buried underneath The Royal and pay for the stand to be moved to X? A place where it can be gawked at by residents of X, where it doesn't belong and loses its cultural value.

4. We find a s**t load more money under the Royal and find a way to refurbish it, make it roadworthy and incorporate it into development plans in a restricted space.

I mean...

First nations people around the world managed to keep history records through rock art and spoken word/songs. The odd bit of architecture depending on the culture. They did that for thousands of years...

Now western society has photographs, digital media, the written word, etc to try and keep history and culture alive and we are still afraid of losing it by removing a decaying and condemned structure. I mean there are still people alive that were around when the stand was built. The reality is it is a tiny snapshot of the history and culture of the region. Worst case we can go and interview the 110 year old folk and ask them about the grand old stand from Punt Road while they're still living.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

It would be plastered with corporate logos and look sh*te .
It already looks tacky and full of corporate boxes for the rich.

God forbid a fellow Tiger making a good life for him/herself.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

We don't have to move just because of the grandstand.
There are other solutions.

Your right.
AFLW change rooms & Toilets.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

It is disrespectful to our history get rid of it unnecessarily imo.
I wonder what opinion Rhett Bartlett has.

Is Rhett related to Jack?

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

You're gunna have to explain this to me.

I have full faith that Richmond FC and the Board would have consulted the appropriate heritage experts at the time. I may be wrong, but I'd honestly be surprised. We don't mess this stuff up lately. Do you have evidence that we didn't consult the appropriate heritage experts?

So why do the National Trust have any say? Why do we have to go to them?

I don't want to lose the stand either, but this is the way forward decided by the democratic principles of our Board, and I believe in it.

Yep.
No way in the world the club wouldn't have sorted out the stands status when it came to any heritage issue.

 

[sregit]

Great story, Roger, thanks for sharing it.

I think most people would like to retain the stand in at least some form, I hope they can come to as good a compromise

Is Rhett related to Jack?

Rhett Bartlett only investigates history. He's not an advocate for keeping it. He'd be happier if we have a new museum area where his historical memorabilia can be displayed.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Rhett Bartlett only investigates history. He's not an advocate for keeping it. He'd be happier if we have a new museum area where his historical memorabilia can be displayed.

Think that'll be a given.

 

[Twoslabs]

1. Stand retained. Cricket club returns and uses the ground to play and train and 30 people sit in the stands. Richmond football club (one of the few AFL teams who actually reside in their suburb of origin) moves to Pakenham. Cricket club has less power and resources than RFC so stand just continues to wear down and die anyway. No refurbishment possible due to no funding.

I'm down for this, could attend training after work then pop over to the "upper" for drinks

 

[_RT_]

If we really want to go down the path of removing the hazard that is Brunton Avenue and make a stadium that would allow us to host true home games then let's revisit Gales suggestion from 2016.

 

[Wacko23Jacko]

If we lie the JDS down we can use it as a bridge to the train station. There's some creative architecture for ya

View attachment 1109426

If we really want to go down the path of removing the hazard that is Brunton Avenue and make a stadium that would allow us to host true home games then let's revisit Gales suggestion from 2016.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Rhett Bartlett only investigates history. He's not an advocate for keeping it. He'd be happier if we have a new museum area where his historical memorabilia can be displayed.

"some form" was intended to mean exactly that.

 

[Aristotle Pickett]

Your right.
AFLW change rooms & Toilets.
View attachment 1109321View attachment 1109322

Why is there a fencing club at Punt road? Is that necessary?

 

[Wacko23Jacko]

Why is there a fencing club at Punt road? Is that necessary?

Me "don't knock down stand it's of value to community"

Also me "don't let community use the space"

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Why is there a fencing club at Punt road? Is that necessary?

part of the reason we got the initial funding for the Mandie building. We have to provide availability for community use

this is the same for all clubs, except collingwood who made it impossible for them to schedule sessions by booking all the facilities out months in advance (something the vic govt no longer allows)

 

[The Goon]

Why is there a fencing club at Punt road? Is that necessary?

part of the reason we got the initial funding for the Mandie building. We have to provide availability for community use

this is the same for all clubs, except collingwood who made it impossible for them to schedule sessions by booking all the facilities out months in advance (something the vic govt no longer allows)

Yes it's necessary, because without it the government of the day can't pretend they're not pork-barreling 1/12 of the community. What it actually eventuates in is a single nice community room in the overall development. The fencing club could use it, or the poetry club, or any number of organisations. To be honest it's a decent win / win outcome in most instances.

 

[tigerdan]

Richmond football club (one of the few AFL teams who actually reside in their suburb of origin) moves to Pakenham.

Not many like to admit it but Punt road oval is not actually in Richmond.