Jack Gunston - Hawthorn bound

[Prudster]

but hang on i didnt read that properly....did you say that lisle is worth pick 15-20........i just fell off my chair laughing omg.....if lisle is that good...why would you trade him for gunston when they are similar players? or even why not just a straight swap lisle for gunston.....why not? because you are so far up your own arse if you think lisle has shown anything to be worth better than pick 30

I wasn't aware that Hawthorn had traded Lisle

 

[Redalert]

Would the crows be interested in any of the experienced fringe players at the Hawks..?
e.g.
Ellis, Young and Ladson?

 

[Drew23]

I wasn't aware that Hawthorn had traded Lisle

That doesnt even make any sense....

if lisle is that good...why would you trade him for gunston when they are similar players?

Is what i said how does that say that hawthorn had traded lisle. What I said is why WOULD<<<<<Can you read that? hawthorn trade him for gunston when they are similar players.

 

[Changa10]

but hang on i didnt read that properly....did you say that lisle is worth pick 15-20........i just fell off my chair laughing omg.....if lisle is that good...why would you trade him for gunston when they are similar players? or even why not just a straight swap lisle for gunston.....why not? because you are so far up your own arse if you think lisle has shown anything to be worth better than pick 30

I think if you re-read my post, what I said was Lisle has shown as much as Gunston so far. Adelaide fans are asking for pick 15 - 20, so on their logic Lisle is also worth pick 15 - 20. Don't think I agreed or stated that either player is worth a first round pick.

But let's get nasty and call me "so far up my arse". Really mature!

Also, if you read the trade I was commenting on, we don't get Pick 18. The upgraded pick goes to Adelaide, so we give up Lisle and Pick 24 to get Gunston. On Adelaide supporters logic, that's giving up the equivalent of two first round picks, to obtain Gunston.

In my opinion, and you can rate it however you like, Gunston isn't worth our first round pick and Lisle. Maybe Lisle and our second Round Pick, so are you willing to trade pick 18, for Lisle and Pick 40 odd? I doubt it.

Lastly, I DON'T want to trade Lisle anyhow, he is one of two players on our list that can play KP, who is over 195cm. My hope is the player that we are trading for this first rounder that Adelaide seek, is in fact someone else.

 

[hawker39]

As this in't a solely Hawthorn or Adelaide board I would like to get a neutrals view.

What is Jack Gunston worth in terms of a 2011 draft pick i.e. what would be be drafted at today?

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Geezus why is everyone getting so emotional?

FWIW I don't see why North are interested in Lisle. They've got a lot of young KPP types that haven't reached their potential yet.

He'd be better suited to Richmond or Melbourne in my opinion.

 

[Prudster]

That doesnt even make any sense....


Is what i said how does that say that hawthorn had traded lisle. What I said is why WOULD<<<<<Can you read that? hawthorn trade him for gunston when they are similar players.

Oh i'm sorry. I missed the part where a Hawthorn representative came onto this board and said we were offering up Lisle. Perhaps you could point me to their post? Who said we would trade Lisle?

In response to your trade idea where north gets Lisle and our first rounder, about the only responses have been that it won't be happening as Lisle is worth ore than what you offered. Perhaps the only reason the Hawthorn posters were discussing Lisle is because you made up a trade between us and north, and the poster was just telling you Lisle is worth more and IF the club were to trade him, it would be for more.

Tbh, i don't even know why a north supporter is in here.

 

[longdonkey]

Would the crows be interested in any of the experienced fringe players at the Hawks..?
e.g.
Ellis, Young and Ladson?

They'd be interested in Schoenmakers. They maybe interested in Ellis but I think Ladson may not be the right age for them. Young at 25yo I don't know?

Schoenmakers for Gunston straight swap might be a goer not sure if Hawthorn would want to lose him

 

[Pariah]

Would the crows be interested in any of the experienced fringe players at the Hawks..?
e.g.
Ellis, Young and Ladson?

No Way. To injury prone.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Aside from pick 24, that mightn't be too far off. Perhaps this instead?

Adelaide: 18
North: 42 (from Hawthorn) and Lisle
Hawthorn: Gunston & 54 (from North)

Thoughts ???

Lisle and 42 for 18 and 54?

A player who couldn't get a game in the Hawks back line ahead of Schoenmakers and the Hawks forward line without Roughead, and who was touched up by Robbie Tarrant in the reserves a few months back?

18 and 54?

Really?

The way I'd read it is that if the Hawks want our 18 then it is they who would have to give up something. Lisle and 24 for our 18 and 42.

But really, why not just offer Lisle and 24 to the Crows?

 

[L_W_P]

Either Hawthorn pay overs or he goes into the draft and gets picked up by GWS or Melbourne or something.

Ellis + first 2 picks for Gunston and a 3rd rounder or the kid and the Hawks both miss out and he spends another year sooking. No way will he be able to do what Luke Ball did. People know his body is fine so it's not about medico reports.

I understand he wants to go home but with Bock, Davis, Griffin and possibly Tippett all taking off in the last 12 months, Gunston had the chance to really put his stamp on this club and step up as a leader.

 

[MaddAdam]

You have O'meara in mind as the young player, don't you?
Mate, North would trade Goldstein for that.

No we wouldn't.

I struggle to think of any deal we'd take for Todd.

 

[Teffy]

Aside from pick 24, that mightn't be too far off. Perhaps this instead?

Adelaide: 18
North: 42 (from Hawthorn) and Lisle
Hawthorn: Gunston & 54 (from North)

Thoughts ???

Not a snowflakes chance in hell.

 

[Changa10]

Either Hawthorn pay overs or he goes into the draft and gets picked up by GWS or Melbourne or something.

Ellis + first 2 picks for Gunston and a 3rd rounder or the kid and the Hawks both miss out and he spends another year sooking. No way will he be able to do what Luke Ball did. People know his body is fine so it's not about medico reports.

Oh C'mon. I know there has been a lot of hype about this kid, but 1st and 2nd picks, plus Ellis. Give me a break.

Ellis and 2nd Rounder maybe, perhaps unders. Ellis and 1st Rounder is overs.

Ellis + Pick 24 + 3rd Round, for Gunston + Adelaide's 2nd Round perhaps?

BTW, I'm not saying I want to trade Ellis here either.

 

[Prudster]

Either Hawthorn pay overs or he goes into the draft and gets picked up by GWS or Melbourne or something.

Ellis + first 2 picks for Gunston and a 3rd rounder or the kid and the Hawks both miss out and he spends another year sooking. No way will he be able to do what Luke Ball did. People know his body is fine so it's not about medico reports.

I understand he wants to go home but with Bock, Davis, Griffin and possibly Tippett all taking off in the last 12 months, Gunston had the chance to really put his stamp on this club and step up as a leader.

Wouldn't Adelaide take something over nothing? Personally, i would take Hawks second rounder over letting him walk. The only reason they would let him walk is if they are being greedy or selfish, and want Gunston to suffer by not getting to where he wants, only it's to the detriment of their own club.

Adelaide have very little power in this situation. He is leaving them regardless of what happens, and if he wants to go to Hawthorn and nobody else, they either have to take Hawthorn's deal, or they get nothing for him. If they are slightly lucky and he will go to any of the Melbourne clubs, then they can at least pick the deal which is best for them. A club would be stupid to overpay for him, when they could probably just pick him up in the draft anyway.

 

[Drew23]

I think if you re-read my post, what I said was Lisle has shown as much as Gunston so far. Adelaide fans are asking for pick 15 - 20, so on their logic Lisle is also worth pick 15 - 20. Don't think I agreed or stated that either player is worth a first round pick.

But let's get nasty and call me "so far up my arse". Really mature!

Also, if you read the trade I was commenting on, we don't get Pick 18. The upgraded pick goes to Adelaide, so we give up Lisle and Pick 24 to get Gunston. On Adelaide supporters logic, that's giving up the equivalent of two first round picks, to obtain Gunston.

In my opinion, and you can rate it however you like, Gunston isn't worth our first round pick and Lisle. Maybe Lisle and our second Round Pick, so are you willing to trade pick 18, for Lisle and Pick 40 odd? I doubt it.

Lastly, I DON'T want to trade Lisle anyhow, he is one of two players on our list that can play KP, who is over 195cm. My hope is the player that we are trading for this first rounder that Adelaide seek, is in fact someone else.

Gunston is also a year behind in development

Jordan Lisle
Age: 21yr 2mth Games: 5 Born: July 12, 1990 Height: 196cm Weight: 92kg Position: Defender




GM K HB D M G B T HO GA GC I50 FF FA DT * SC * Total 5 32 24 56 32 1 3 7 8 1 2 3 4 4 277 269
















Average 5 6.4 4.8 11.2 6.4 0.2 0.6 1.4 1.6 0.2 0.4 0.6 0.8 0.8 55.4 53.8































Jack Gunston
Age: 19yr 11mth Games: 14 Born: October 16, 1991 Height: 193cm Weight: 81kg Position: Forward


GM K HB D M G B T HO GA GC I50 FF FA DT * SC * Total 12
90
39
129
60
19
11
21
21 5
24
10
8
3
36
670

Average 12
7.5
3.2
10.8 5
1.6
0.9
1.8
1.8 0.4
2.0
0.8
0.7
0.2
61.3
55.8



Ok now lets look at this one together.... Jack Gunston is a year behind in development. Jack Gunston is also in a team that has been struggling, with many players around his height Taylor walker & Tippitt to name a couple fighting in the forward line. He still managed to force his way into the team many occasions in his Second year.
Lisle is in a top team with a lot of KPP going down over the season gilham, stratton, roughhead, renouf, hale for a while. Yet still struggles to get a game. He has played 5 games across 3 years.

To me these stats also paint a picture that these two players are not in the same boat as how far their development has come with gunston matching Lisle in most then beating him in several others. It's a pity I cant get Disposal efficiency and stats around that as I know Lisles kicking has not been the greatest. Look if you think Lisle has shown as much as Gunston with his extra years development you over rate your teams players. Lisle would not be worth greater than pick 30 given his performances as I stated above

 

[Drew23]

Gunston is also a year behind in development

Jordan Lisle
Age: 21yr 2mth Games: 5 Born: July 12, 1990 Height: 196cm Weight: 92kg Position: Defender




GM K HB D M G B T HO GA GC I50 FF FA DT * SC * Total 5 32 24 56 32 1 3 7 8 1 2 3 4 4 277 269
















Average 5 6.4 4.8 11.2 6.4 0.2 0.6 1.4 1.6 0.2 0.4 0.6 0.8 0.8 55.4 53.8































Jack Gunston
Age: 19yr 11mth Games: 14 Born: October 16, 1991 Height: 193cm Weight: 81kg Position: Forward


GM K HB D M G B T HO GA GC I50 FF FA DT * SC * Total 12
90
39
129
60
19
11
21
21 5
24
10
8
3
36
670

Average 12
7.5
3.2
10.8 5
1.6
0.9
1.8
1.8 0.4
2.0
0.8
0.7
0.2
61.3
55.8



Ok now lets look at this one together.... Jack Gunston is a year behind in development. Jack Gunston is also in a team that has been struggling, with many players around his height Taylor walker & Tippitt to name a couple fighting in the forward line. He still managed to force his way into the team many occasions in his Second year.
Lisle is in a top team with a lot of KPP going down over the season gilham, stratton, roughhead, renouf, hale for a while. Yet still struggles to get a game. He has played 5 games across 3 years.

To me these stats also paint a picture that these two players are not in the same boat as how far their development has come with gunston matching Lisle in most then beating him in several others. It's a pity I cant get Disposal efficiency and stats around that as I know Lisles kicking has not been the greatest. Look if you think Lisle has shown as much as Gunston with his extra years development you over rate your teams players. Lisle would not be worth greater than pick 30 given his performances as I stated above

eww didnt load correctly -_-

Stats that mattered were Gunston matches, goals, tackles, inside 50, and goal assists all were greater than Lisle by a margin

 

[eurodono]

Surely the fact that there are no Victorian clubs that finished below the Crows...strengthens the bargaining power of the Adelaide FC as the threat of Jack going into the Draft is pretty much a non starter.

As Trigg has already said on radio...the Crows will play hardball on this one...they will get the best deal for the footy club so good luck to the Hawks if they can come up with the best deal.

Jack can nominate his club - good luck to him, but dont expect the Crows to give up a better deal so Jacqueline can play for the Hawks. After all, he just wants to get back to Mummy in Melbourne so he shouldnt care who he plays for as long as Mummy and Daddy are there.

Looking forward to seeing what happens from this one. Pretty confident we are going to get a decent deal.

 

[satan1]

Don't really want to lose Lisle, we will end up with egg on our face. Don't blame him with the lack of opportunity if he wants to go though.

 

[Henry Jr]

But really, why not just offer Lisle and 24 to the Crows?

Perhaps Lisle has said he won't go interstate?

 

[Drew23]

Oh i'm sorry. I missed the part where a Hawthorn representative came onto this board and said we were offering up Lisle. Perhaps you could point me to their post? Who said we would trade Lisle?

In response to your trade idea where north gets Lisle and our first rounder, about the only responses have been that it won't be happening as Lisle is worth ore than what you offered. Perhaps the only reason the Hawthorn posters were discussing Lisle is because you made up a trade between us and north, and the poster was just telling you Lisle is worth more and IF the club were to trade him, it would be for more.

Tbh, i don't even know why a north supporter is in here.

You make me laugh every time you post....Lisle can't get a game even with all your KPPS injured.

On top of this you are now making accusations that I started the whole Lisle to North??? Had been posted many times before I came along and I believe even by many of your hawks "buddies". Seems like a fair trade to me and I don't understand how you think you are losing 2 first rounders....if lisle is worth a first rounder his stats surely don't show it and his lack of game time just adds to that fact. Lisle is worth maybe just more than when we came in. 5 games in 3 years I think your club will be looking elsewhere.

Why would a north fan be here hmmm maybe cause you're offering up our draft pick? that could be part of the reason. Good luck deficiencies that hawthorn refuse to cover will let them down till they need to rebuild again

 

[Chris25]

What is it about Jack Gunston that seems to get everyone worked up?

 

[GarnerSmash]

Perhaps Lisle has said he won't go interstate?

Perhaps.

Perhaps he would chase an AFL career anywhere he can. It seems the Crows have lost many KP types. He would get more games there than at the Kangas or the Hawks.

 

[Hawkzzz]

I think the Hawks will be out to do their very best to compensate Adelaide. And so they should. But without the emotional crap.

What this "weak" draft means is that picks outside the top 20 will require smart evaluation.

If Lisle goes, he will show his worth next year. He would've been seen as a revelation if he kicked straight against Freo, however, it was very windy (he should have kicked 3-4 goals to half time. I was shocked when we subbed him off, but I thought we will play him again next week. FFS we have given so many senior players latitude when they miss easy shots (see Pies game).

Then he gets another crack against Essendon and was solid, taking 7 marks. The next week against the Pies, he takes 10 marks (2 strong contested grabs). Sadly, he sustained a pretty bad facial injury. In my view, Lisle is exactly what we need down back - a backman who doesn't just spoil but can read the play and take multiple marks.


For people to imagine he is worth pick 50 odd, haven't see him play.

If you ask most Hawk fans, they will NOT want him to leave. As a 20 year old, he needs opportunities and settling him down in one position. With a good pre season, I would not be surprised if he snatches CHB off Shoe next year.

If North were to get Lisle and pick 24 for pick 18 (to Adelaide) this would be a steal for North. But if Lisle is ok with going to Adelaide, along with Pick 24 (and possibly a swap of 2nd round picks) they would be made to pass that up.

 

[Drew23]

I think the Hawks will be out to do their very best to compensate Adelaide. And so they should. But without the emotional crap.

What this "weak" draft means is that picks outside the top 20 will require smart evaluation.

If Lisle goes, he will show his worth next year. He would've been seen as a revelation if he kicked straight against Freo, however, it was very windy (he should have kicked 3-4 goals to half time. I was shocked when we subbed him off, but I thought we will play him again next week. FFS we have given so many senior players latitude when they miss easy shots (see Pies game).

Then he gets another crack against Essendon and was solid, taking 7 marks. The next week against the Pies, he takes 10 marks (2 strong contested grabs). Sadly, he sustained a pretty bad facial injury. In my view, Lisle is exactly what we need down back - a backman who doesn't just spoil but can read the play and take multiple marks.


For people to imagine he is worth pick 50 odd, haven't see him play.

If you ask most Hawk fans, they will NOT want him to leave. As a 20 year old, he needs opportunities and settling him down in one position. With a good pre season, I would not be surprised if he snatches CHB off Shoe next year.

If North were to get Lisle and pick 24 for pick 18 (to Adelaide) this would be a steal for North. But if Lisle is ok with going to Adelaide, along with Pick 24 (and possibly a swap of 2nd round picks) they would be made to pass that up.

The thing you are saying here however is that Lisle and pick 24 would get the deal done...this still means you lose lisle and pick 24 and gain gunston. The trade I was tossing up is that you gain pick 50 odd aswell? That works out better than what you have there?