Unsolved Jack The Ripper

[Jordie_tackles]

Wasnt there a cop that left a letter to his daughter suggesting who he "knew" was the killer but didnt want to break the case himself and the daughter chose not to release it either?

I am no expert or follow it at all but remember hearing something like this?

 

[Mitchell Madness]

There's an interesting story about these murders

It may be linked to the royal family, whether it be a royal guard, or family member
Hense the lack of a culprit, they had all the power to cover it up

 

[Wallaby]

There's an interesting story about these murders

It may be linked to the royal family, whether it be a royal guard, or family member
Hense the lack of a culprit, they had all the power to cover it up

Great Story. Prince Eddy. Young tearaway. Had child out of wedlock (nothing new there). Apparently, some of the nannies who looked after the little bastard then tried to blackmail the Royals - bad move. By co-incidence, the majority of them were by then prostitutes in the East End. So they (the Royals) had them killed. First drugged by doctored grapes, and then offed - either by the Royal Doctor (William Withey Gull) or Winston Churchill's dad. Eddy supposedly died a few years later. But reeeeally.... he survived until the 1930s, locked up in the ancestral home of the Bowes-Lyons family. As a reward for their services, one of the Bowes-Lyons' girls married into the Royal Family (first commoner to do so for centuries) - that, of course being Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, Queen of England during WW2 and, later, the Queen Mum. (There are legends of sad, hairy, in-bred Royal mutants locked up in castles all over Europe, so this part is just a variation on that).

Some versions have Eddy having a bit of a 'mad attack' during a night out in the East End, and 'accidentally' killing someone - as a result, all the witnesses had to be silenced (as per above).

And theres the Masonic angle - all the male Royals are masons (ritual killings and arrangement of the bodies, Mitre Square - geddit?), the Cleveland Street Gay club (errrr, so I've heard) , - you can go on for hours - and plenty have.

It's certainly more fun than a sad, depressed, Jewish tailor. One teeeny, tiny problem - it's a load of bollocks.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

I really enjoyed reading 'The Diary of Jack the Ripper'.

Even though Maybrick appears widely discounted as a suspect, that pocket watch stuff is certainly interesting...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Maybrick

 

[beta_condition]

Bored and notice it's one week until the 125th anniversary of Mary Kelly's Murder. Continual cycle with revisiting this case, always seems to be a new suspect to appear.

http://www.hartlepoolmail.co.uk/new...o-hartlepool-after-infamous-murders-1-6191174

 

[Total_Juddshanks]

Could very well have been Druitt, could very well have been kasminsky. Could also very well have been a complete random who the police never laid eyes on.

It's bloody frustrating, but there is simply nothing else of substance to discover about this case, all the available evidence has been well and truly picked over, all that is left for people is speculation, theories, and new suspects who might conceivably fit the bill, or might have nothing to do with it whatsoever.

It's so annoying because with cases like the zodiac or the ONS (thanks for that one crime board) there is still a fair chance someone will crack the case, but absent the invention of time travel, humanity will never ever know who Jack the Ripper was.

Agree about the Mary Kelly one, i saw the crime scene photo for that in a book when I was very young and it is one of the most shocking and gruesome things I've ever set eyes on, he was a sick sick puppy whoever he was.

If anyone is interested, a while back I downloaded some of the original newspaper reports about the killings from an archiving service- they are a great read, really give you a sense of how panicked London got. I'll upload them to this thread.

 

[Wallaby]

I'm not saying we'll never know. Who in the 18th-century would have thought that we could find out what ancient animals looked like from fossils? Who in the 1940s ever thought we could find out how old objects were by carbon-dating? Who in the 1960s ever thought we could solve identities using DNA?

Maybe there will be a new discovery that enables us to go back at look at ancient - I don't know what, pictures, places, artifacts - and find out even more than we do now.

 

[beta_condition]

Could very well have been Druitt, could very well have been kasminsky. Could also very well have been a complete random who the police never laid eyes on.

Strong possibility out of all the suspected victims the true ripper isn't one of them, tried giving profiling a go myself, heterosexual white male between 20-30 years of age, of intelligence, loner, user of prostitutes, mother issues, abusive to animals, convicted of petty cirmes.

~The night of the double event, Elizabeth Stride body was found out the front of the International workers educational club, it's quite possible the murder attended the meeting that night. Same night as the message on the brick wall "The Juwes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing" ~ My opinion but it does seem to be a message out of frustration if it is connected to the crimes, one would think it has a high chance since the bloody apron was found right there.

From this you can suggest the ripper was possibly of Jewish decent or at least foreign, well educated spoke and could write English, employed more than part time maybe even a business owner, strong views of current events, probably lived alone.

 

[Wallaby]

Juwes - 3 assassins from masonic history, who killed a Masonic Master.

The Masons basically held (and still hold) all the important posts in British Society - Chief of Police, Bank of England, Royalty etc.

I'm not saying anything - I'm just saying...........................

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Strong possibility out of all the suspected victims the true ripper isn't one of them, tried giving profiling a go myself, heterosexual white male between 20-30 years of age, of intelligence, loner, user of prostitutes, mother issues, abusive to animals, convicted of petty cirmes.

~The night of the double event, Elizabeth Stride body was found out the front of the International workers educational club, it's quite possible the murder attended the meeting that night. Same night as the message on the brick wall "The Juwes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing" ~ My opinion but it does seem to be a message out of frustration if it is connected to the crimes, one would think it has a high chance since the bloody apron was found right there.

From this you can suggest the ripper was possibly of Jewish decent or at least foreign, well educated spoke and could write English, employed more than part time maybe even a business owner, strong views of current events, probably lived alone.

Given your conclusion about the message I'm not particularly convinced regarding your profiling.

 

[Total_Juddshanks]

Strong possibility out of all the suspected victims the true ripper isn't one of them, tried giving profiling a go myself, heterosexual white male between 20-30 years of age, of intelligence, loner, user of prostitutes, mother issues, abusive to animals, convicted of petty cirmes.

~The night of the double event, Elizabeth Stride body was found out the front of the International workers educational club, it's quite possible the murder attended the meeting that night. Same night as the message on the brick wall "The Juwes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing" ~ My opinion but it does seem to be a message out of frustration if it is connected to the crimes, one would think it has a high chance since the bloody apron was found right there.

From this you can suggest the ripper was possibly of Jewish decent or at least foreign, well educated spoke and could write English, employed more than part time maybe even a business owner, strong views of current events, probably lived alone.

The Mary Kelly one was more violent but the 'double event' is haunting, there were so many people around in the vicinity, and there was a real chance police could have secured some really really valuable evidence for later ripperologists, if they'd grown some balls and photographed the message, hand writing analysis could be used to match it with the various letters Lusk and the papers received, and maybe also with suspect handwriting.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

The fact that Druitt is still usually put at the top of the various 'possible suspects' lists suggests to me that they still haven't got the faintest idea who he was and that they never will.

 

[Total_Juddshanks]

The fact that Druitt is still usually put at the top of the various 'possible suspects' lists suggests to me that they still haven't got the faintest idea who he was and that they never will.

So far as I know- (this is gleaned from a book I read a while back)

He was an upper-middle classish school teacher, training to be a barrister.
He had mental health issues, and was dismissed from his job, possibly due to inappropriate relationships with make students.
He topped himself some months after the Kelly murder, by jumping off a bridge.
He was listed as one of the three major suspects in the papers left by the senior police officer at the time.

The last point is probably the only thing which really makes him interesting- again, it's bloody frustrating because we will never know quite what caused him to come to the notice of police.

 

[grizzlym]

So far as I know- (this is gleaned from a book I read a while back)

He had mental health issues,

Surely not.

 

[Subprime]

Just re-reading this thread and the links, and noticed its 125 years since Mary Kelly's slaying. I'm sure this gruesome anniversary is being marked in Whitechapel.

Watched the 6 part documentary and noted some of the experts thought the ripper was organised, others thought disorganised. They all agreed that they were high risk crimes in terms of being discovered.

The timing is something that struck me, if you include the Martha Tabram case the dates were 7/8/1888, 31/8/1888, 8/9/1888, 30/9/1888, and 9/11/1888.

7 - 31 - 8 - 30 - 9.

Although he skipped October altogether. Probably means nothing, just another of the red herrings that leads to so many suspects and theories. Need a numerologists viewpoint.

The other thing I didn't realise before was that the murders were on weekends or bank holidays so leading to the conclusion it was an employed person. Though its hard to imagine working alongside someone who did these things a few hours before turning up for work.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Just re-reading this thread and the links, and noticed its 125 years since Mary Kelly's slaying. I'm sure this gruesome anniversary is being marked in Whitechapel.

Watched the 6 part documentary and noted some of the experts thought the ripper was organised, others thought disorganised. They all agreed that they were high risk crimes in terms of being discovered.

The timing is something that struck me, if you include the Martha Tabram case the dates were 7/8/1888, 31/8/1888, 8/9/1888, 30/9/1888, and 9/11/1888.

7 - 31 - 8 - 30 - 9.

Although he skipped October altogether. Probably means nothing, just another of the red herrings that leads to so many suspects and theories. Need a numerologists viewpoint.

The other thing I didn't realise before was that the murders were on weekends or bank holidays so leading to the conclusion it was an employed person. Though its hard to imagine working alongside someone who did these things a few hours before turning up for work.

That is interesting. Some of the theories involved high ranking doctors members of royalty etc. Some of those types wouldn't have been constrained much by the normal work day.

 

[Total_Juddshanks]

Just re-reading this thread and the links, and noticed its 125 years since Mary Kelly's slaying. I'm sure this gruesome anniversary is being marked in Whitechapel.

Watched the 6 part documentary and noted some of the experts thought the ripper was organised, others thought disorganised. They all agreed that they were high risk crimes in terms of being discovered.

The timing is something that struck me, if you include the Martha Tabram case the dates were 7/8/1888, 31/8/1888, 8/9/1888, 30/9/1888, and 9/11/1888.

7 - 31 - 8 - 30 - 9.

Although he skipped October altogether. Probably means nothing, just another of the red herrings that leads to so many suspects and theories. Need a numerologists viewpoint.

The other thing I didn't realise before was that the murders were on weekends or bank holidays so leading to the conclusion it was an employed person. Though its hard to imagine working alongside someone who did these things a few hours before turning up for work.

No it really doesn't need a numerologist (read charlatan or crazy) view point. Those sort of numerical patterns show up in everything, they mean nothing.

This is probably a bit of a pop culture based impression, but I don't think it's that strange for a serial killer to have a fairly regular interval like jack did- its just a case of the compulsion to kill coming up fairly regularly

 

[Subprime]

No it really doesn't need a numerologist (read charlatan or crazy) view point. Those sort of numerical patterns show up in everything, they mean nothing.

This is probably a bit of a pop culture based impression, but I don't think it's that strange for a serial killer to have a fairly regular interval like jack did- its just a case of the compulsion to kill coming up fairly regularly

I don't believe in numerology either but I see a pattern in the dates. If you don't, that's fine, leave this point in abeyance for someone else who is interested to discuss.

 

[Subprime]

That is interesting. Some of the theories involved high ranking doctors members of royalty etc. Some of those types wouldn't have been constrained much by the normal work day.

One documentary I saw years ago had a profiler who felt they could pinpoint a street or streets in the centre of the Whitechapel area that was the home of the ripper. The theory being that the person doesn't kill on their doorstep but rather goes a certain distance away. So their home is at the hub of a wheel.

Whitechapel was a slum so that would indicate the ripper was poor and working class or slumming it for some other reason. The nature of the crimes would tend to indicate a fairly good knowledge of the area and its hiding places and access routes.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

One documentary I saw years ago had a profiler who felt they could pinpoint a street or streets in the centre of the Whitechapel area that was the home of the ripper. The theory being that the person doesn't kill on their doorstep but rather goes a certain distance away. So their home is at the hub of a wheel.

Whitechapel was a slum so that would indicate the ripper was poor and working class or slumming it for some other reason. The nature of the crimes would tend to indicate a fairly good knowledge of the area and its hiding places and access routes.

Only a couple of miles from London. Its like saying someone couldn't get from South Yarra to Collingwood.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

From the profiling I've read, it suggests that he was of relative means. For one thing, the killings were always on weekends, which suggests that he worked. Plus, it's suggested that he must have had lodgings to clean up, after doing the deed. And presumably, he'd be alone in such lodgings, unless there were two or more 'Rippers'. And the mutilations that he performed on the victims were suggested to be done by someone with surgical skill.

It's often suggested that JTR may have been a butcher, or a slaughterman of some description and I'm no expert in the training that these various disciplines requires, but this account (of Annie Chapman's murder), to me suggests it must have been someone with experience in cutting human bodies: someone who had been trained as a surgeon. Such training would suggest that he was of a higher socioeconomic class than most people in the area and certainly his victims.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/ripper/annie_4.html

Dr. George Bagster Phillips, veteran police surgeon, was called to the spot and described what he saw for the inquest:

The abdomen had been entirely laid open; that the intestines, severed from their mesenteric attachments, had been lifted out of the body, and placed by the shoulder of the corpse; whilst from the pelvis the uterus and its appendages, with the upper portion of the vagina and the posterior two-thirds of the bladder, had been entirely removed. No trace of these parts could be found, and the incisions were cleanly cut, avoiding the rectum, and dividing the vagina low enough to avoid injury to the cervix uteri. Obviously the work was that of an expert - of one, at least, who had such knowledge of anatomical or pathological examinations as to be enabled to secure the pelvic organs with one sweep of the knife.

At the inquest, Phillips said, "The whole inference seems to me that the operation was performed to enable the perpetrator to obtain possession of these parts of the body." This police surgeon with 23 years of experience was very surprised that the mutilations had been done so skillfully and in what must have been a short period of time, saying that he could have not done such work in less than fifteen minutes and more likely an hour.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/ripper/annie_4.html

With regards to the 'Juwes' message, the police thought that by far the most likely explanation was that it was someone trying to put the blame on someone else, since a Jewish person would not have spelt it 'Juwes'.

 

[Subprime]

Only a couple of miles from London. Its like saying someone couldn't get from South Yarra to Collingwood.

Of course, it was just the profiler's opinion that I've paraphrased above. They were applying modern techniques to a late 19th century crime and producing what they thought was the most likely scenario.

Personally I reckon I've watched more than a dozen dramatizations or documentaries on the subject and I can't remember any that agree with each other.

 

[Partridge]

The Nathan Kazminsky/ David Cohen is one which seems very likely, change in names leading up to the event, suffering from the affects of syphilis, later admitted to an asylum. Nathan Kazaminsky records of his known whereabouts end mid 1888, a simple spelling error may of been responsible for him avoiding suspicion with Aaron Kosminski been heavily investigated instead. Though both were admitted to an asylum, Aaron was taunted as a gentle and harmless person, though you might argue his paranoid activity might of been the catalyst of the killings. However when you compare it to Nathan who was psychotic and regularly had to be tied down would suit the mental break down linked with the drastic change in the killings.

Yeah what I've read about it I tend to agree. The killings were NOT perpetrated by someone organised and systematic like some serial killers (including H.H.Holmes). This guy attacked victims in public, sliced and slashed, and ran. Hardly what you would call organised. They got worse and worse until of course the final Kelly one (the only one indoors, and due to that by far the worst).

 

[Partridge]

From the profiling I've read, it suggests that he was of relative means. For one thing, the killings were always on weekends, which suggests that he worked. Plus, it's suggested that he must have had lodgings to clean up, after doing the deed. And presumably, he'd be alone in such lodgings, unless there were two or more 'Rippers'. And the mutilations that he performed on the victims were suggested to be done by someone with surgical skill.

It's often suggested that JTR may have been a butcher, or a slaughterman of some description and I'm no expert in the training that these various disciplines requires, but this account (of Annie Chapman's murder), to me suggests it must have been someone with experience in cutting human bodies: someone who had been trained as a surgeon. Such training would suggest that he was of a higher socioeconomic class than most people in the area and certainly his victims.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/ripper/annie_4.html

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/ripper/annie_4.html

With regards to the 'Juwes' message, the police thought that by far the most likely explanation was that it was someone trying to put the blame on someone else, since a Jewish person would not have spelt it 'Juwes'.

I used to subscribe to that, now I'm not so sure. Particularly because if you look at the one killing where he was indoors and could take his time, that's most definitely not the act of a skilled surgeon.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

I used to subscribe to that, now I'm not so sure. Particularly because if you look at the one killing where he was indoors and could take his time, that's most definitely not the act of a skilled surgeon.

I dunno, if we assume that is was only one person (and that question is an uncomfortable possibility with a lot of unsolved historical serial killings), I'd say it would be easier for a guy with surgical skills to lose his shit and commit the slaughter on Kelly than it would be for someone without any surgical skills to fluke the precise and rapid removal of several of Chapman's organs, with '...no meaningless cuts...', to the degree that the police surgeon and coroner were absolutely certain that it was committed by '...someone accustomed to the post-mortem room.'