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Jack Viney

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It's pretty clear how the tribunal has arrived at the decision they did.

The first step is to conclude that an offence occurred. According to the precedent set in several earlier cases, laying a bump that results in a head injury, regardless of whether you touched the head or whether you could have predicted that the subsequent head injury would occur, means that you are automatically guilty of rough conduct. This is the major bone of contention - because it's complete bullshit. It should not be a rule, there shouldn't be a precedent, and this is the part that everyone should be up in arms about. It's a deadset disgrace.

However, if we accept that step, the rest of the tribunal went as would be expected. They rightly determined that the contact was negligent and high, which is all pretty much beyond contention. As for impact, they generally use the severity of the injury to determine the impact. However, in this case, they've (rightly) decided that the severity of injury is not directly attributable to Viney, and so they've downgraded it to medium.

Now, there are two different things happening there. Viney is being held responsible for the head injury occurring, but he is not being held responsible for the severity of the head injury. And that's perfectly reasonable if we accept the first step (which we shouldn't).

From there the formula tells us exactly what his penalty should be.


It's that first part - the rule that states that any head injury that results from a bump is attributable to the person who laid the bump - that needs to be revoked, and revoked NOW. People like Fyfe, Douglas, and now Viney have all found themselves suspended for actions where they did not themselves actually injure the head, but in the course of that play, their opponent's head ended up being injured. That's sport. It's always going to happen from time to time. It's accidental and nobody, from the fans, to the players themselves, want to see it removed from the game. And that's the only way to prevent it. When you are punished for legitimate accidents, the only two options are to either cop a bullshit suspension from time to time, or refuse to ever put yourself in the situation where an accident might occur. And the latter would be the death of AFL football.
 
This post is terrible, cherry picking words.

The most important word in all that is "if"

Viney hd no malicious intent with contesting the ball.

Adelaide fans are just ignoring this fact.

Those would be the categories adjudicated on "if" Viney had made a conscious decision to initiate contact, which he didn't.

A bunch of posters with Sloane avatars whinging about a guy going in hard to a contest is hilarious imo.

I'm not sure why you keep referirng to "Adelaide supporters". I don't think I've seen one that actually thinks the suspension should have occurred.
 
I hate that brand name AFL, it's the Australian Football League and yet we don't use the word 'Football' anymore, we've just handed that over to Soccer. It's insane, who is running this circus? Fix the brand name, fix the MRP, fix the score review system and for God's sake fix the freaking rules! The people want their game back.
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The game is still ticking i think matches are still being played this weekend
 

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Hopefully order is restored tomorrow and the outcome suggests what most people believe. That unlike the other incidents that people keep referring to are nothing like this one. That the others were a purposeful decision to bump and this was a collision where a party protected him self by bracing.

Hopefully the MRP going forward then can know that they are well within their rights to state that a collision does not have to be graded or sent to the tribunal if the first piece of evidence is that there was no bump but just a collision. The injury then becomes immaterial if the action is seen as a collision or accident.

I can't believe how the MRP and tribunal have muddied the waters by comparing this to any other incident being discussed. They caused the contact. He had no other option than to get out of the way. Pirouette ..... Please!!!
 
It's pretty clear how the tribunal has arrived at the decision they did.

The first step is to conclude that an offence occurred. According to the precedent set in several earlier cases, laying a bump that results in a head injury, regardless of whether you touched the head or whether you could have predicted that the subsequent head injury would occur, means that you are automatically guilty of rough conduct. This is the major bone of contention - because it's complete bullshit. It should not be a rule, there shouldn't be a precedent, and this is the part that everyone should be up in arms about. It's a deadset disgrace.

However, if we accept that step, the rest of the tribunal went as would be expected. They rightly determined that the contact was negligent and high, which is all pretty much beyond contention. As for impact, they generally use the severity of the injury to determine the impact. However, in this case, they've (rightly) decided that the severity of injury is not directly attributable to Viney, and so they've downgraded it to medium.

Now, there are two different things happening there. Viney is being held responsible for the head injury occurring, but he is not being held responsible for the severity of the head injury. And that's perfectly reasonable if we accept the first step (which we shouldn't).

From there the formula tells us exactly what his penalty should be.


It's that first part - the rule that states that any head injury that results from a bump is attributable to the person who laid the bump - that needs to be revoked, and revoked NOW. People like Fyfe, Douglas, and now Viney have all found themselves suspended for actions where they did not themselves actually injure the head, but in the course of that play, their opponent's head ended up being injured. That's sport. It's always going to happen from time to time. It's accidental and nobody, from the fans, to the players themselves, want to see it removed from the game. And that's the only way to prevent it. When you are punished for legitimate accidents, the only two options are to either cop a bullshit suspension from time to time, or refuse to ever put yourself in the situation where an accident might occur. And the latter would be the death of AFL football.

It's not clear at all how they came to their conclusion, which is why everyone aside from Adelaide supporters is absolutely disgusted by this travesty.
 
It's not clear at all how they came to their conclusion, which is why everyone aside from Adelaide supporters is absolutely disgusted by this travesty.

Did you read my post? Tell me which part you disagree with.

Edit: For that matter, did you read anyone else's posts? Adelaide supporters are just as disgusted about this as everyone else is.
 
And yet their tears are flooding this thread..

Go figure..
Far more tears flooding this forum from Melbourne supporters and fellow travellers from other clubs . I reckon Adelaide supporting posters have by and large been pretty reasonable. Particularly seeing it was their player who ended up with the broken jaw, and will be out for at least 6 matches through absolutely no fault of his own.
 
MRP and Tribunal no longer required. In a world full of Reality TV, when we as viewers pick the best cook, the best housemate, the best renovator, the best dancer, the best singer, the best talent and in a world that suited morons are so out of touch with the real world, why can't we just sack them all, and when an incident happens, put it on all media and have polls everywhere. Majority wins. Problem solved. Far fetched, yes, but even so, it would be far more effective than what we have now.
That idea is actually not as stupid as it sounds. If you had appropriate sample sizes...

Mind you, would be open to rigging
 
When is Lynch going to serve his suspension for banging heads with the other Melbourne player.

Lynch clearly chose to pick up the ball full well knowing he was going to get tackled. His action directly led to a head clash.

2 weeks minimum.
 
I haven't really seen that either. I think you just dislike Adelaide supporters and are looking for an excuse to whinge about them.

Not at all.

This is disgusting and a travesty.

Adelaide fans can make up whatever they want to mke themselves feel better.

I've got a right to comment on their fiction.
 
But none of this changes the fact that the charge will be a result of the consequences.

You punch a guy and he dies - Manslaughter
You punch a guy and he is uninjured - Assault


It seems to be the same in the AFL now. You bump a guy and ur heads clash, both players get up, nothing to answer. You bump a guy, head clash, he goes off with concussion rule, youre up for rough conduct.

Your talking about criminal law, it does not compare. This is football. Why wasn't Barry Hall charged with assault/battery/grievous bodily harm when the entire nation witnessed the act on television?

You're not listening, or reading.

Adelaide fans dont agree with the suspension. The agree with the suspension on the basis of the rules...which it just so happens the Tribunal did too.


Its not right, but neither was Douglas, Thomas or Fyfe.

Get it now? Or do you need me to produce you a picture book so you can figure out that nobody is complaining, we're discussing in a mature manner....well until you got here.

So are you happy to see the game go down the toilet just for the sake of bureaucracy? Crow fans just want an eye for an eye because they got embarrassed on the weekend. Stop trying to play the politically correct angle, everyone can see right through it.
 

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Getting sick of the barracker generalisations... just because a person goes for a particular club doesn't mean all supporters of that club share the same beliefs.

Every club has a tiny minority of dickhead supporters, don't get sucked in. Leave the generalisations out of it hey?
 
It's pretty clear how the tribunal has arrived at the decision they did.

The first step is to conclude that an offence occurred. According to the precedent set in several earlier cases, laying a bump that results in a head injury, regardless of whether you touched the head or whether you could have predicted that the subsequent head injury would occur, means that you are automatically guilty of rough conduct.

I'd say Viney got bumped harder than he bumped. All he did was protect himself. This is where it falls down ... at the first step.
 
Melbourne are officially appealing the decision.

Will be interesting to see what comes of this. My guess is a repeat of the Trengove appeal a few years back, and that it will be unsuccessful. But the AFL will be under huge pressure to let him walk free.

To appeal it they need to provide new evidence or it will be all over in 5 minutes.

The backlash from supporters of all clubs has been enormous today - and rightly so.
 
Injuries from accidents have happened for 150 years.

Correct. But unfortunately the same people who claim this is the greatest game on earth see fit to change rules every time something out of the ordinary happens.

Knee-jerk reaction, after knee-jerk reaction, after knee-jerk ****ing reaction.
 

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Your talking about criminal law, it does not compare. This is football. Why wasn't Barry Hall charged with assault/battery/grievous bodily harm when the entire nation witnessed the act on television?



So are you happy to see the game go down the toilet just for the sake of bureaucracy? Crow fans just want an eye for an eye because they got embarrassed on the weekend. Stop trying to play the politically correct angle, everyone can see right through it.

NOBODY HAS SAID THAT EVERYONE AGREES WITH YOU That it should be fine BUT

Based on the rules and the precedent set this year he was always going to be suspended there is a difference between an opinion and the facts of Rules and Laws and how they are applied.

For example I think that in a 100Km/h zone 3Km/h is not enough of a buffer to take into account other circumstances will I get a fine if I do 103 in a 100 zone of course I will My opinion does not change the facts of the Law that is in place.
 
I did some umpiring at junior local level football a while back and the kids loved the body contact. They bowled a player over (legally) with a strong tackle or bump, they had a giggle or a laugh and they got up and they learnt that life isn't all cushioned seating playing x-box and sanitised. Little Johnny can get hurt... it is part of life. By the way, 95% of the time no one got hurt, a graze here, a sore muscle there.

The AFL seems to want to protect everyone from reality. Reality is that football is a contact sport and that accidents can happen. If they want to turn the game into soccer- just come out and say it "we want a non-contact version of our game and for it to be as much like soccer as possible, but we will have one point of difference - we will use an oval ball instead of a round ball....look at how unique that Australian game is...it is just like soccer but we use an oval ball." Be honest and say it if that is the case and then we can all decide to turn off the game once and for all.
 
NOBODY HAS SAID THAT EVERYONE AGREES WITH YOU That it should be fine BUT

Based on the rules and the precedent set this year he was always going to be suspended there is a difference between an opinion and the facts of Rules and Laws and how they are applied.

For example I think that in a 100Km/h zone 3Km/h is not enough of a buffer to take into account other circumstances will I get a fine if I do 103 in a 100 zone of course I will My opinion does not change the facts of the Law that is in place.

I will ask you the same question, try to keep up.

Are you happy to see the game go down the toilet for the sake of bureaucracy?
 
NOBODY HAS SAID THAT EVERYONE AGREES WITH YOU That it should be fine BUT

Based on the rules and the precedent set this year he was always going to be suspended there is a difference between an opinion and the facts of Rules and Laws and how they are applied.

For example I think that in a 100Km/h zone 3Km/h is not enough of a buffer to take into account other circumstances will I get a fine if I do 103 in a 100 zone of course I will My opinion does not change the facts of the Law that is in place.

The rules in place and the precedence set, is that if a player decides to bump instead of tackle and injures the other player or makes head high contact then he will be cited and punished.

If a player goes into a contest with eyes on the man and not the ball and makes contact with the head or injures the other player, he will be cited and punished.

There is nothing in the rules that says if two players make contact with eachother (both with eyes on the ball) and one gets hurt, the non hurt party needs to be punished.

It really is an utter disgrace.
 
The people that are there to enforce the rules decided he did something wrong.
I agree that he didnt.

Neither did Douglas, he layed a shepherd to the body.
Neither did Thomas (head clash)
Neither did Fyfe (head clash)

You are right off the mark I'm afraid. The Viney incident has nothing in common with the others. Douglas almost snuck up on a player and smashed him hard, deserved a suspension. Thomas was running to 12 o'clock, and sharply turned right to three o'clock, and just prior to impact pushed up, and got quicker, deserved suspension, Fyfe intended to bump, so comes under these rules we speak of. EVERYONE I have heard from today apart from one silly man on SEN about 3:00pm today, believe that Viney was going for the ball, and in the last couple of meters seen the opposition player take possession, and braced and contacted. It was not suspendable. If anyone thinks that is incorrect, you really are kidding yourself.

I haven't read this thread, because I just got home, but I imagine that like everywhere else in the footy world today, can not believe this incident, this accident was suspended. And I can't believe that just because some of the people on here are Adelaide supporters, they make themselves look silly to be sticking up for this fitting into the already dodgy rules, when it doesn't. Seriously, some fans leave their brains at the door when their player gets hurt. This is in line with a high fly mark and the player knees the side of the player underneaths face. NEVER would you stick up for the suspension for it.

PLEASE, get with it, to say it is suspendable is such a funny thing to hear. Don't fall into the trap, you surely have a better footy mind than that, c'mon please, restore my faith I am about to give up all hope that doesn't matter what the topic, you'll always have another side. Did you know the MCG grass is blue......who's with me?
 
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