Free Agency Jade Gresham [Joins Essendon as RFA]

[stfan]

As I have said many times, I don't think we end up with pick 13. But what you need to understand, is that we're paying him extra to get something out of the deal. Which most likely would be your pick 35-ish.

Yes I have always though that the likely deal. St Kilda's compensation pick gets upgraded, and the trade pick to Essendon for Shiel gets upgraded over what "market forces" would have it as.

And also as I have previously mentioned it would also need to be that Essendon sees it desirable for its own list management reasons to move Shiel on. If it does not, then the deal would not happen.

And the actual contract $$$ to Shiel, and who pays what, would most move the dial a little too.

 

[boncer34]

That makes a lot more sense than the idea that this whole "win/win rort" thing just finishing with Essendon paying more for Gresham to improve a pick they get straight back. Great result for Essendon, but it takes a lot of the win/win out of it for St Kilda who would be jumping through hoops just trade a good pick straight back for a has-been. In a void Shiel just isn't worth that pick, even if Essendon are helping to create it in the first place.

It's fairly simple to me.

We create an extra high pick for the Saints, Saints give us their current 2nd rounder for Shiel as a result.

 

[eth-dog]

It's fairly simple to me.

We create an extra high pick for the Saints, Saints give us their current 2nd rounder for Shiel as a result.

Which we can also use to move into the first round in conjunction with our second and a later pick.

 

[angrynaut]

It's fairly simple to me.

We create an extra high pick for the Saints, Saints give us their current 2nd rounder for Shiel as a result.

Much more sense in that. Essendon improve our compensation, we bump up the offer for Shiel (probably worth a third, we hand over a second). Essendon give more money to Gresham, which makes him happy, and can do that easily with Shiel's contract off their books.

You get a better pick, we get a better pick. A true win/win.

 

[boncer34]

Much more sense in that. Essendon improve our compensation, we bump up the offer for Shiel (probably worth a third, we hand over a second). Essendon give more money to Gresham, which makes him happy, and can do that easily with Shiel's contract off their books.

You get a better pick, we get a better pick. A true win/win.

I assume the hold up is working out if we need to give enough for a first after yours or a end of round first.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

What an absolute ridiculous system we have if Gresham nets pick 13 due to some crap blatant manipulation behind the scenes.

Do St.Kilda even care if Gresham moves on?

I think we are sitting on the fence for a reasonable contract we would happily keep him . but with his injury history and up and down form if he wants 700-800k on a long term deal there’s the door, he also plays a position that is not really critical to our structure his not a full time midfielder

 

[bird_man]

No chance 13 is involved.

If it is Melbourne should take the AFL to court.

Why Melbourne?

 

[stavro#4]

As I have said many times, I don't think we end up with pick 13. But what you need to understand, is that we're paying him extra to get something out of the deal. Which most likely would be your pick 35-ish.

And that’s fine.

But the arguing in here is who is getting this first round pick with a number of Essendon supporters thinking they are walking away with Gresham and pick 13 for Dylan Shiel.

There is no value in that deal for St Kilda.

 

[eth-dog]

And that’s fine.

But the arguing in here is who is getting this first round pick with a number of Essendon supporters thinking they are walking away with Gresham and pick 13 for Dylan Shiel.

There is no value in that deal for St Kilda.

No, what they're arguing is you getting Shiel and our second, which is better than the compensation pick you would have gotten. There's a difference.

 

[bird_man]

No, what they're arguing is you getting Shiel and our second, which is better than the compensation pick you would have gotten. There's a difference.

Plenty of Essendon fans have argued that they will end up with 13 on this thread

 

[eth-dog]

Plenty of Essendon fans have argued that they will end up with 13 on this thread

Yeah, 13 for Shiel and our second. Not 13 for Shiel alone.

 

[stavro#4]

No, what they're arguing is you getting Shiel and our second, which is better than the compensation pick you would have gotten. There's a difference.

Which means you getting Gresham and 13/19 …. Which still highlights no value to the saints.


And back around we go….

If Gresham is going to be paid so low that band 3 is triggered. We would match that deal.

The value is the first round compo.

If Gresham was under contract. You wouldn’t be able to land him for less then a late first round pick.

This is what we have been trying to point out to you.

Our issue is that we see Gresham as our best way of getting another first rounder. That doesn’t mean we don’t value him at a 600k a year contract - which is up to 200k lower this his current deal.

We would obviously match that deal. You would then have to trade and you would have no assets to make that deal work.

The fact he is a restricted free agent means we can work this deal where we can get the right compo for us.

As mentioned now by Ralph Edmund and Morris ( Today!!)

 

[cAsEy_18]

Which means you getting Gresham and 13/19 …. Which still highlights no value to the saints.


And back around we go….

If Gresham is going to be paid so low that band 3 is triggered. We would match that deal.

The value is the first round compo.

If Gresham was under contract. You wouldn’t be able to land him for less then a late first round pick.

This is what we have been trying to point out to you.

Our issue is that we see Gresham as our best way of getting another first rounder. That doesn’t mean we don’t value him at a 600k a year contract - which is up to 200k lower this his current deal.

We would obviously match that deal. You would then have to trade and you would have no assets to make that deal work.

The fact he is a restricted free agent means we can work this deal where we can get the right compo for us.

As mentioned now by Ralph Edmund and Morris ( Today!!)

You wouldn't though. That's the thing.
You can say you would.
But you wouldn't.

 

[eth-dog]

Which means you getting Gresham and 13/19 …. Which still highlights no value to the saints.


And back around we go….

If Gresham is going to be paid so low that band 3 is triggered. We would match that deal.

The value is the first round compo.

If Gresham was under contract. You wouldn’t be able to land him for less then a late first round pick.

This is what we have been trying to point out to you.

Our issue is that we see Gresham as our best way of getting another first rounder. That doesn’t mean we don’t value him at a 600k a year contract - which is up to 200k lower this his current deal.

We would obviously match that deal. You would then have to trade and you would have no assets to make that deal work.

The fact he is a restricted free agent means we can work this deal where we can get the right compo for us.

As mentioned now by Ralph Edmund and Morris ( Today!!)

Yes and you match and get... Shiel and pick 28.

So instead, we're bumping the offer so you can get... Shiel and pick 28 but we get pick 14 on top of it. At least that's the theory behind it for them.

You don't seem to grasping that. Plus, if you match and Gresham wants to come to us anyway, we either:

1. Offer Shiel and 29/30 for him. You wouldn't be getting our first.
2. If you reject that, we take him with either the pick we offered you sans Shiel
3. Take him in the pre season draft with the pick we have ahead of yours

And as I said to you MULTIPLE times, I DON'T THINK THAT WILL HAPPEN. But to say "Essendon fans are expecting 13 for Shiel" is being deliberately obtuse. Some (not all) of us are expecting us to buy that pick 14 with Shiel and pick 30. Others (like me) are expecting we're trying to get your second round pick so we can stockpile a bunch of points and try to use those to trade up to Gold Coast when they get picks 11 and 19 for pick 5.

 

[stavro#4]

You wouldn't though. That's the thing.
You can say you would.
But you wouldn't.

We are going to let one of our most talented players go for pick 33 … in a draft that’s going to go about 50 deep.

I know your not stupid enough to think that’s actually going to happen and if you are…

Ask yourself why Jade hasn’t been completed as a free agent deal if the deal was so straight forward that we would accept band 3 or 4 compo… infact why wouldn’t he have just stayed the course with going to Carlton a club actually with a chance of winning a flag in the near future in comparison to you for that type of money.

 

[cAsEy_18]

We are going to let one of our most talented players go for pick 33 … in a draft that’s going to go about 50 deep.

I know your not stupid enough to think that’s actually going to happen and if you are…

Ask yourself why Jade hasn’t been completed as a free agent deal if the deal was so straight forward that we would accept band 3 or 4 compo… infact why wouldn’t he have just stayed the course with going to Carlton a club actually with a chance of winning a flag in the near future in comparison to you for that type of money.

I didn't say it's straight forward.

Gresham's out the door, regardless of what happens. It's okay, these things happen.

The only reason for a hold up is BOTH teams trying to work out a WIN/WIN. Which is what nearly every Essendon fan has been trying to tell you if you read closely.

The "win" is not Essendon ending up with Gresham. That's going to happen regardless.
The "win" is also not "getting Shiel off our books" as we don't actually care about that.

Yes, we're trying to come away from this with more than just Gresham. Gresham and a pick, Gresham and a pick upgrade, Gresham and a better pick than what would be market value for Shiel. Something like that.
And the clubs would be currently working together to work out a WIN/WIN that both are happy with.

And that is why nothing has happened yet.
That is what they'd currently be working through.

But I look forward to your reply about how this apparently actually means Essendon are demanding Pick 13, or Essendon are being unreasonable, or the fact that it hasn't gone through yet means Gresham might still be staying/matched. I'm sure it'll be well thought through.

 

[stavro#4]

Yes and you match and get... Shiel and pick 28.

So instead, we're bumping the offer so you can get... Shiel and pick 28 but we get pick 14 on top of it. At least that's the theory behind it for them.

You don't seem to grasping that. Plus, if you match and Gresham wants to come to us anyway, we either:

1. Offer Shiel and 29/30 for him. You wouldn't be getting our first.
2. If you reject that, we take him with either the pick we offered you sans Shiel
3. Take him in the pre season draft with the pick we have ahead of yours

And as I said to you MULTIPLE times, I DON'T THINK THAT WILL HAPPEN. But to say "Essendon fans are expecting 13 for Shiel" is being deliberately obtuse. Some (not all) of us are expecting us to buy that pick 14 with Shiel and pick 30. Others (like me) are expecting we're trying to get your second round pick so we can stockpile a bunch of points and try to use those to trade up to Gold Coast when they get picks 11 and 19 for pick 5.

Mate…

You’re not getting pick 5. When the dogs are offering 10/17/future first

Your not buying a pick off us, a club who wants to go to the draft and has the cap space to buy picks of its own and who is losing the best player in this entire fiasco.

There is no value for pick 30 for us. It makes no sense other then this narrative bomber fans have built.

What makes sense for both clubs is triggering band 1 or 2 compo for Gresham. We then take Shiel and either all or most his salary to make it fair with the salaries + a pick no earlier then our second back to you.

You get the best player. We get the best pick.

We take over Shiel - who at his age is cooked as a genuine gun.

 

[citizen-erased]

* i can't wait until this one is done.

 

[eth-dog]

Mate…

You’re not getting pick 5. When the dogs are offering 10/17/future first

Your not buying a pick off us, a club who wants to go to the draft and has the cap space to buy picks of its own and who is losing the best player in this entire fiasco.

There is no value for pick 30 for us. It makes no sense other then this narrative bomber fans have built.

What makes sense for both clubs is triggering band 1 or 2 compo for Gresham. We then take Shiel and either all or most his salary to make it fair with the salaries + a pick no earlier then our second back to you.

You get the best player. We get the best pick.

We take over Shiel - who at his age is cooked as a genuine gun.

I didn't say pick 5 you moron. I literally said pick 11 or 19. Seriously. Let's say your second ends up as pick 36 post compensation pre bids. We use that and pick 30 to trade up to pick 19 from Gold Coast, netting them 183 more points and us a second first round pick.

And I agree that we won't get pick 14. I don't know how many times I've said that. I was just explaining the theory to you.

And what makes most sense is that we pay most or all of his salary to command a better pick

 

[rusman]

I’m thinking this guy is just having a laugh .

 

[stfan]

Gresham has also spoken with a few clubs. So it also makes sense that he thinks/knows that Essendon will gain him the best deal.

 

[rusman]

Sounds to me that everyone on this board now understands what’s going on. Either way both saints and dons are getting ahead on this trade and FA.

Just about who’s taking on more salary and getting the better pick as salary is an asset.

Eg
Dons take on more salary = 13.
Saints take on more salary = 13 (which they can use as apart on Henry).

 

[boncer34]

Mate…

You’re not getting pick 5.

Others (like me) are expecting we're trying to get your second round pick so we can stockpile a bunch of points and try to use those to trade up to Gold Coast when they get picks 11 and 19 for pick 5.

 

[Hayes4PM]

He's very good Dons fans, 800k a year good, you should do it

 

[Beerfish]

He's very good Dons fans, 800k a year good, you should do it

Well why wouldn't we when we end up with pick 5 too. Get it done Dodo.