Free Agency Jade Gresham [Joins Essendon as RFA]

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Reckon it not's going to happen they will be two seprate deals

We pay Gresham,Saints get a second rnd compo (which is his right value)

Then ontrade Shiel to Saints by paying his salaray and Essendon recive pick 31

 

[stavro#4]

I think that Ralphy has cocked it up. It looks like two pretty standard trades are proposed - no 'hoodwinking' and no need to question that it is 'all perfectly legal'. It also means that there is no reason to worry about anyone getting pick 13.

Except Sam Edmund has been asking the questions and list managers are saying the saints get the first round pick created and Shiel

That’s 2 journos across the last 2 days putting work in on this deal to explain the narrative and both are settling on:

Saints: First round compo & Shiel
Bombers: Gresham & and pick 32 at best

 

[RWB4life]

But we don't need the cap space. We can fit Shiel in. The $2m "hole" was on top of all salaries including his.

2mil - 750 gresh - 800 mckay - 300 goldy

1.85 mil used 150k left.

Excluding any new money going to parish and redman.

No doubt at the start of the year you had a lot of cap sieve but it seems like you've used it on gresh and mckay.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Except Sam Edmund has been asking the questions and list managers are saying the saints get the first round pick created and Shiel

That’s 2 journos across the last 2 days putting work in on this deal to explain the narrative and both are settling on:

Saints: First round compo & Shiel
Bombers: Gresham & and pick 32 at best

This what will most likely happen we won't end up using 32 imo

I'll probably try and trade 28&32 and see if we can move up the draf order a bit.

 

[Duckworth]

Except Sam Edmund has been asking the questions and list managers are saying the saints get the first round pick created and Shiel

That’s 2 journos across the last 2 days putting work in on this deal to explain the narrative and both are settling on:

Saints: First round compo & Shiel
Bombers: Gresham & and pick 32 at best

Yeah, but it's really Edmond just repeating Ralph. They are talking to other list managers, who are guessing. As both St Kilda and Essendon are being 'tight-lipped' about it.

I'll repeat my question from earlier. If deals can't be linked, and the Shiel deal can't be linked... Why would Essendon bother paying the extra to bump up Gresham's worth to Band 1? My answer continues to be that they are missing something.

 

[stavro#4]

Yeah, but it's really Edmond just repeating Ralph. They are talking to other list managers, who are guessing. As both St Kilda and Essendon are being 'tight-lipped' about it.

I'll repeat my question from earlier. If deals can't be linked, and the Shiel deal can't be linked... Why would Essendon bother paying the extra to bump up Gresham's worth to Band 1? My answer continues to be that they are missing something.

Edmund went first.

Ralph went last night.

So no it’s not.

It’s very likely the truth of this deal. That we are buying a first round compo pick by taking Shiels salary and giving you a pick back for your trouble aswell and not taking you to the trade table for Gresham.

We clearly feel he is a first round pick of some sort and you don’t have the currency to part for him.

And it isn’t as case of “well we will walk away”

Gresham looks to be going to you blokes. Commitments have never been broken in free agency - especially when a deal has been matched

 

[stavro#4]

This what will most likely happen we won't end up using 32 imo

I'll probably try and trade 28&32 and see if we can move up the draf order a bit.

Honestly.

I imagine there is some big fish out there or another 2 players who improve you that you’ll look to bring in.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Edmund went first.

Ralph went last night.

So no it’s not.

It’s very likely the truth of this deal. That we are buying a first round compo pick by taking Shiels salary and giving you a pick back for your trouble aswell and not taking you to the trade table for Gresham.

We clearly feel he is a first round pick of some sort and you don’t have the currency to part for him.

And it isn’t as case of “well we will walk away”

Gresham looks to be going to you blokes. Commitments have never been broken in free agency - especially when a deal has been matched

Yeah Cal said he'll be surprised if Gresham is not at Essendon. Tigers,Carlton out of the picture it's only Essendon

 

[stavro#4]

Cal said he'll be surprised if Gresham is not at Essendon. Tigers,Carlton out of the picture it's only Essendon

Yeah and I imagine your just waiting for our BnF on Monday night before it’s “official” that he wants to be a bomber.

 

[Duckworth]

Edmund went first.

Ralph went last night.

Ralph broke this story first. Check his Twitter/X.

It’s very likely the truth of this deal. That we are buying a first round compo pick by taking Shiels salary and giving you a pick back for your trouble aswell and not taking you to the trade table for Gresham.

We clearly feel he is a first round pick of some sort and you don’t have the currency to part for him.

And it isn’t as case of “well we will walk away”

Gresham looks to be going to you blokes. Commitments have never been broken in free agency - especially when a deal has been matched

This has already been explained thoroughly by others in the thread as to why this isn't the case. I'll bullet-point it.

• Essendon has heaps of cap space.
• Overpaying Gresham cancels out any Cap savings made by losing Shiel (1 year left) Eg overpaying by 150k for 3 years cancels out 1 year at maybe 700k. Don't get upset at my numbers, it's just an example.
• Matching an Essendon bid will result in St Kilda getting our second rounder. (ie less than Compo). Clubs have only matched when they are certain to gain more than the compensation by doing a trade. Where this is not the case, all clubs have accepted.

All this points to no benefit to Essendon, and therefore no Band 1. This leaves us, with your (and certainly my preferred) option of walking away. I wonder what St Kilda would be willing to pay him if he stays?

 

[Duckworth]

Yeah Cal said he'll be surprised if Gresham is not at Essendon. Tigers,Carlton out of the picture it's only Essendon

****! Come on Carlton pony up!

 

[stavro#4]

Ralph broke this story first. Check his Twitter/X.


This has already been explained thoroughly by others in the thread as to why this isn't the case. I'll bullet-point it.

• Essendon has heaps of cap space.
• Overpaying Gresham cancels out any Cap savings made by losing Shiel (1 year left) Eg overpaying by 150k for 3 years cancels out 1 year at maybe 700k. Don't get upset at my numbers, it's just an example.
• Matching an Essendon bid will result in St Kilda getting our second rounder. (ie less than Compo). Clubs have only matched when they are certain to gain more than the compensation by doing a trade. Where this is not the case, all clubs have accepted.

All this points to no benefit to Essendon, and therefore no Band 1. This leaves us, with your (and certainly my preferred) option of walking away. I wonder what St Kilda would be willing to pay him if he stays?

Edmund went first explaining the deal as it stands in the media on sen lunch time.

Ralph corroborated with his article last night.

Late pick back for Shiel.

You blokes trigger band 1/2 compo for Gresh.

Both seem to believe the value is removing Shiels salary from your cap

 

[Duckworth]

Edmund went first explaining the deal as it stands in the media on sen lunch time.

Ralph corroborated with his article last night.

Late pick back for Shiel.

You blokes trigger band 1/2 compo for Gresh.

Both seem to believe the value is removing Shiels salary from your cap

OK you mean the deal as now reported. then yes.

I will vehemently disagree with them both, and say that there is no benefit to EFC (as it stands). Therefore no benefit in triggering band 1, which according to them needs to exceed 790K.

 

[boncer34]

2mil - 750 gresh - 800 mckay - 300 goldy

1.85 mil used 150k left.

Excluding any new money going to parish and redman.

No doubt at the start of the year you had a lot of cap sieve but it seems like you've used it on gresh and mckay.

So what? So we have 150k left. Big deal?

 

[Tasmanian saint]

A second rounder for Shiel means St Kilda pays all or nearly all his existing salary for 2024

Would happily do that instead of handing over a first for him which would be a terrible outcome for St Kilda

 

[MarkJohnson#1]

2mil - 750 gresh - 800 mckay - 300 goldy

1.85 mil used 150k left.

Excluding any new money going to parish and redman.

No doubt at the start of the year you had a lot of cap sieve but it seems like you've used it on gresh and mckay.

Are those three players listed not replacing another three on the list (and therefore their salaries)..?

 

[MarkJohnson#1]

Would happily do that instead of handing over a first for him which would be a terrible outcome for St Kilda

Done, we’ll take the band 2 compensation you receive for Gresham which is essentially a second rounder.

 

[Duckworth]

So what? So we have 150k left. Big deal?

150K + all the delistings etc. that old mate left out.
Then end of 2024 we get back a good amount as Shiel's contract ends.

 

[stavro#4]

OK you mean the deal as now reported. then yes.

I will vehemently disagree with them both, and say that there is no benefit to EFC (as it stands). Therefore no benefit in triggering band 1, which according to them needs to exceed 790K.

Essendon approached St Kilda.

So clearly they see value in us taking Shiel

 

[Lore]

My opinion may be at odds with the club, but I would lose no sleep if we missed out on Gresham. He is already IMO (and will continue) to be overpaid for an inconsistent player. He's already on $600K WTF. I'd just shake hands and walk away.

I don't have any particular interest in Gresham either, as I've basically never watched him play. I know Saints fans were all over him a couple of years ago but they seem to have cooled.

I think it's kind of funny that we're looking to swap a forward/mid for a mid/forward. Seems appropriate since we have so many mid/forwards that we try to play them as forward/mids when they're all fit. So as far as that's concerned it's probably better to have a forward/mid than a mid/forward if that's where they're going to play anyway.

As far as small forwards are concerned, we have three Indigenous father-sons all under 19 (Tex, Alwyn and Jayden) then there's Menzie (20), Guelfi (26) and Snelling (26). Walla is gone, Munkara is gone, Guelfi is on the naughty list, and the rest are kids, so having a more mature bloke to go in there and hold the fort, put a bit of pressure on the incumbents to hold their spots would not be a bad thing. 3 years from now Guelfi and Snelling are probably both gone, and it'll be Tex, Alwyn, Jayden, Menzie and Gresham. Bonus point because if we need flexibility on-field due to injuries, he can go in the middle a bit too.

And then to continue the Indigenous theme, we've churned over a lot of Indigenous leaders at the club in the last year or so, not just Walla but also AFLW coaches Jacara Egan and Kirby Bentley, with Jacara's dual role as Indigenous Player Development Manager becoming vacant when she went to work in the AFL Academies program. That was filled by Paddy Ryder, who seems to have moved on as well. Meanwhile we had Quinton Narkle supporting Egan/Ryder while playing for our VFL team and we know he did some good stuff that was appreciated, but then he got drafted in the MSD and we lost him too.

I don't know if he's suited to it as I know even less about his off-field persona, but I would hope he could have a positive impact on the Indigenous kids at the club as well. Perhaps one of the Saints fans in here will know things?

 

[RWB4life]

150K + all the delistings etc. that old mate left out.
Then end of 2024 we get back a good amount as Shiel's contract ends.

The delistings are there in both cases. Plus most of those will make up with new draftees and guys going to new deals.

I don't think it's too complicated, you guys want gresh for free, if you offer less than at least band 2 we match because he's worth it at that price.

If you offer band 2 we might take that either nothing else. So you're paying sheil and gresh. Or you pay more and we trade something like a second for shiel. Net cap gain and a pick that's definitely usable in the draft.

 

[Lore]

Essendon approached St Kilda.

So clearly they see value in us taking Shiel

Gresham's manager and Essendon's recruiters would've been talking for months, and would be keeping St Kilda in the loop where necessary as well. That's not really surprising.

As for Shiel, his manager is shopping him around, so that would've been your first point of contact on that one.

The role that player managers have in establishing negotiations and getting deals done is often unrecognised, but their fingerprints are all over it.

 

[Lore]

The delistings are there in both cases. Plus most of those will make up with new draftees and guys going to new deals.

I don't think it's too complicated, you guys want gresh for free, if you offer less than at least band 2 we match because he's worth it at that price.

If you offer band 2 we might take that either nothing else. So you're paying sheil and gresh. Or you pay more and we trade something like a second for shiel. Net cap gain and a pick that's definitely usable in the draft.

If Band 1 is 790k x3, what's the new price for Band 2? And consequently, what does that mean in terms of what St Kilda is willing to match?

 

[stavro#4]

If Band 1 is 790k x3, what's the new price for Band 2? And consequently, what does that mean in terms of what St Kilda is willing to match?

We would probably match 650ish

700 is probably band 2.

For the sake of 50k. We probably match/you probably got to 700

 

[bomberlegend2007]

I can’t wait for Eumund to change his mind like he always does and the subsequent “he is full of shit” comments to follow.