Rumour Jamar a Magpie in 2013?

[Old Spice]

Wouldn't be giving up any picks for Jamar so it's not a risk in that way. Also should be cheap.

Sure, Jolly and Jamar in same team mightn't work, like Fraser and Jolly, but want the best man possible to be in the team. I think we need back-up for Jolly for sure, so really it's a question of do you want Wood as the back-up or Jamar?

 

[Scodog10]

As a former AA would you really want to switch clubs and then be playing second fiddle to a bloke you labeled soft? It just won't happen.

Draft picks come into it as a means to show that we've brought in some top end talent in the recent past so there's little need to chase any more in that particular position.

 

[robertg22]

As a former AA would you really want to switch clubs and then be playing second fiddle to a bloke you labeled soft? It just won't happen.

+ at a massively reduced wage. We can't pay him what he would be getting now.

Not going to happen.

 

[Primetime Pricey]

As a former AA would you really want to switch clubs and then be playing second fiddle to a bloke you labeled soft? It just won't happen.

Draft picks come into it as a means to show that we've brought in some top end talent in the recent past so there's little need to chase any more in that particular position.

2nd fiddle? Jamar is a better ruck at the moment.

I dont think he is coming but Jamar is better then Jolly, not over the years but right now.

 

[jimmy35]

Agree with the fact you couldn't play them in the same side. Jamar is a more aggressive, less polished version of Jolls, it wouldn't fit.
Can't see him coming TBH despite the paper talk.

 

[Scodog10]

2nd fiddle? Jamar is a better ruck at the moment.

I dont think he is coming but Jamar is better then Jolly, not over the years but right now.

Did you not look at the player comparison I provided or is it you know just the vibe of things?

Jolly has him covered or is his equal in all areas except kicks and hit outs (though if you looked at hit outs to advantage Joll's would be ahead) so what would be the point of chasing a bloke when you already have someone playing at the exact same level

Jamar would certainly be playing second fiddle to Jolly next year and IMO you would have to be naive to think otherwise.

 

[Primetime Pricey]

Did you not look at the player comparison I provided or is it you know just the vibe of things?

Jolly has him covered or is his equal in all areas except kicks and hit outs (though if you looked at hit outs to advantage Joll's would be ahead) so what would be the point of chasing a bloke when you already have someone playing at the exact same level

Jamar would certainly be playing second fiddle to Jolly next year and IMO you would have to be naive to think otherwise.

i never said we should get him, just said i think he is a better ruckman right now.
the stats show Jolly is having a better season but if you just watch how they play its easy to see ability wise right now Jamar has him covered. Jolly can say he is over his knee injury but he isnt. He cant run and gets manhandled consistently at throw in and ball ups. Jamar is also a better contested mark.
Perhaps im naive by judging players on what i watch and not looking at a stat line.

Also this isnt a i dont rate Jolly post, i love what he has done for us and im more then happy to push on with him and not bring in someone else. Just saying father time and injuries are catching him

 

[Knightmare]

Did you not look at the player comparison I provided or is it you know just the vibe of things?

Jolly has him covered or is his equal in all areas except kicks and hit outs (though if you looked at hit outs to advantage Joll's would be ahead) so what would be the point of chasing a bloke when you already have someone playing at the exact same level

Jamar would certainly be playing second fiddle to Jolly next year and IMO you would have to be naive to think otherwise.

Hitout to advantage rates of both Jolly and Jamar very high. Jolly last year with 31% to advantage, Jamar with 29% to advantage - both very high percentages and both well above average.

Jamar's hitout numbers of 32 per game against Jolly's 24 per game last year makes Jamar the more effective no.1 ruckman.

Give me Jamar as the no.1 ruckman - 3 years younger (which still isn't young but none the less you'd think there's more football left in him relative to Jolly). Jolly can make the Dean Cox move to prolong his career with greater minutes up forward - which you would hope he would have the maturity to accept.

Through free agency I'm very much in the Jamar is now a priority boat. Doesn't cost any assets to add him to our list as any other trade would. Jamar is now an upgrade on Jolly, gives us a player with more years left in him than Jolly and is a clear upgrade on the depth at best Wood securing our ruck team for another 3 years while Witts, Ceglar and Gault develop which is optimal. Perfect fit as far as I'm concerned and great use of free agency.

 

[Dundalis]

Did I say we should use early picks to draft ruckmen? You'll find I said the opposite, and repeatedly.

You have a knack of converting situations so that you might have something to argue against.

Read posts properly.

I didn't convert anything. I know your stance was against using our draft picks to acquire ruckman, though I thought you meant more via trade than draft, since this is more of a FA/trade based thread. I just thought it strange you came out with a strong rebuttal against using our high draft picks to acquire ruckman when I couldn't see anyone advocating doing so. Like you were arguing with someone that wasn't there. A non issue in any case other than to satisfy my curiosity.

 

[Tulip]

About as likely as Cloke coming our way.

 

[Old Spice]

I didn't convert anything. I know your stance was against using our draft picks to acquire ruckman, though I thought you meant more via trade than draft, since this is more of a FA/trade based thread. I just thought it strange you came out with a strong rebuttal against using our high draft picks to acquire ruckman when I couldn't see anyone advocating doing so. Like you were arguing with someone that wasn't there. A non issue in any case other than to satisfy my curiosity.

CBF going through the thread like a bush lawyer to split hairs. I certainly wasn't / aren't for using early picks for any ruckman - free agent or not. I asked and learnt along the way that unrestricted free agents can come to us without us giving up any picks. (I;m presumig that's true)

On that basis, Jamar could be a fine get in terms of not giving up any picks. The question then becomes price and value for money.

 

[Dundalis]

CBF going through the thread like a bush lawyer to split hairs. I certainly wasn't / aren't for using early picks for any ruckman - free agent or not. I asked and learnt along the way that unrestricted free agents can come to us without us giving up any picks. (I;m presumig that's true)

On that basis, Jamar could be a fine get in terms of not giving up any picks. The question then becomes price and value for money.

Fair enough. Though I did mention in my first follow up reply to you that the AFL would provide Melbourne with compensation picks for Jamar. It has to be correct, because otherwise the term free agency would not apply. It would be no different than a standard trade but by arbitration. If you are familiar with FA in American sports it becomes clearer. Major League Baseball is the closest to the AFL's FA model.

 

[Old Spice]

Fair enough. Though I did mention in my first follow up reply to you that the AFL would provide Melbourne with compensation picks for Jamar. It has to be correct, because otherwise the term free agency would not apply. It would be no different than a standard trade but by arbitration. If you are familiar with FA in American sports it becomes clearer. Major League Baseball is the closest to the AFL's FA model.

Well you might just have been the man who enlightened me in regards to us not having to give up a draft pick when picking up an unrestricted FA.

I don't really see how the term free agent automatically means we don't have to give up a pick. Football laws are not natural but man made. But I'm happy to learn from you that the laws dictate we as a club don't have to give up any draft picks but get them paid on our behalf.

 

[Dundalis]

Well you might just have been the man who enlightened me in regards to us not having to give up a draft pick when picking up an unrestricted FA.

I don't really see how the term free agent automatically means we don't have to give up a pick. Football laws are not natural but man made. But I'm happy to learn from you that the laws dictate we as a club don't have to give up any draft picks but get them paid on our behalf.

I think the FA model the AFL is taking, is that it's intention is not for the stars to change clubs, but the fringe players. I think it would be just as difficult for those players to change clubs with no FA as with it, should clubs be forced to give up picks. It's a significant impediment for a club, perhaps just as significant as making an actual trade with a team. Which of course then defeats the purpose of bringing in free agency. Players don't really have the freedom to move to their club of choice.

I probably shouldn't have said it should not be classified FA should clubs be forced to give up picks, as it's not true of a sport like MLB, where a club in fact does give up a draft pick by arbitration given certain conditions are met, but I think it defeats the purpose of FA given the AFL's intent for it's introduction. Plus draft picks are significantly more valuable in the AFL than they are in MLB where you have 30+ draft rounds, plus a separate international signing period. FA is genuinely free in the NFL and NBA where the value of draft picks is more comparable.

 

[MISFITS]

He has been pedantic and pechulant towards his club..
He doesn't want to play under a former Colingwood assistant coach.
Why would he play under a Collingwood coaching panel?
For me, i wouldn't bring the remnents(Jamar) of what is a flawed culture at Melbourne over to Collingwood.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Hes the wrong age (basically the same as Jolly) and the wrong style the same as Jolly but with less goalkicking ability)

We shouldnt have any spare coin in our salary cap to pay him anyway, if we are serious about keeping our list together.

Would much rather stick with Wood who is just as good a footballer as Jamar, and is much younger and about to hit the peak age bracket just as Jolly gets near the end. The only reason Jamar APPEARS to be a better player than Wood is that hes been at a crap club and had more opportunity.

 

[Wooljay]

Would much rather stick with Wood who is just as good a footballer as Jamar

That is silly, Jamar is a far better ruckman than Wood - whether he is the better overall footballer might be debatable, but we'd be recruiting him as a ruckman.

 

[Temploar]

He just joined today, most likely a troll account. Ignore him.


EDIT by Swooop - chocolates go to this man please.

Either just report the posts, as a couple of you guys did - thank you --> makes Mods jobs easier
Or - ignore - don't give attention seeking trolls the oxygen they crave.
Just report and ignore.

 

[Number 10]

Why do we let D-------- in,we are trying to have rational debate on our board why don,t you piss off back to your board why do we have to put up with these muppets.

hey ipswitch - I've been noticing in your post that your apostrophe is a comma... did someone change the keys on your keyboard or something?? Not having a dig, because on my home laptop it is set to English (French) and I can't seem to change is and every time I do an apostrophe it tries to accent the closest vowel.

 

[thecig]

hey ipswitch - I've been noticing in your post that your apostrophe is a comma... did someone change the keys on your keyboard or something?? Not having a dig, because on my home laptop it is set to English (French) and I can't seem to change is and every time I do an apostrophe it tries to accent the closest vowel.

I swear someone said this just last week. Maybe it was Old Spice or something?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

That is silly, Jamar is a far better ruckman than Wood - whether he is the better overall footballer might be debatable, but we'd be recruiting him as a ruckman.

Jamar now is better than Wood now

But Jamar at 24-25 is no better than Wood at 24-25, hence theres no reason to think Wood cant improve like Jamar has improved

If Jamar was on our list today, would he get a game ahead of Jolly? It wuld be marginal

And in two years Jamars career would likely be at an an end.

 

[thecig]

Jamar now is better than Wood now

But Jamar at 24-25 is no better than Wood at 24-25, hence theres no reason to think Wood cant improve like Jamar has improved

If Jamar was on our list today, would he get a game ahead of Jolly? It wuld be marginal

And in two years Jamars career would likely be at an an end.

I think the idea is that Jolly will be ready to retire by the end of next year (he can hardly jump as it is). We can't sit by for 2 years and wait for Ceglar/Wiits to be ready while we're in our premiership window.

IMO it's too much of a risk to see if Wood has the capabilities to be a dominant/physical number 1 ruckman. What if he doesn't? I don't even wanna waste a single year on a ruckman with no physical presence. While Jamar isn't super physical he's more physical than Woody.

If we were able to get Jamar on a reasonably small salary for 2-3 years to cover while we wait for Ceglar and Witts I'll be happy.

Also isn't Jamar only 28? (Happy to be corrected on that), so surely he has 3+ years left at a decent level.

 

[Scodog10]

Jamar now is better than Wood now

But Jamar at 24-25 is no better than Wood at 24-25, hence theres no reason to think Wood cant improve like Jamar has improved.

Been thinking this since the thread bobbed up. If you take a look at Jamar's numbers circa 09 they are fairly similar to Wood's now. The only difference being that in 09 Jamar was force fed the number one ruck spot.

I'm not saying Wood will improve to the same extent that Jamar did in 10 however if given the spot full time IMO he'd improve and that improvement would surely be enough to see us through until the other two come on.

 

[thecig]

Been thinking this since the thread bobbed up. If you take a look at Jamar's numbers circa 09 they are fairly similar to Wood's now. The only difference being that in 09 Jamar was force fed the number one ruck spot.

I'm not saying Wood will improve to the same extent that Jamar did in 10 however if given the spot full time IMO he'd improve and that improvement would surely be enough to see us through until the other two come on.

It's a valid point, I guess I'm just worried that if we did that and he didn't improve would we be killing our chances in our premiership window?

 

[Scodog10]

It's a valid point, I guess I'm just worried that if we did that and he didn't improve would we be killing our chances in our premiership window?

I don't blame you lol. Hawthorn though were able to win a premiership 4 years ago with lamposts for ruckmen so it can be done without a top liner. My main concern with Wood is that he may start coasting if the other two don't provide any pressure from underneath! I've had a fair bit to say on it so I should probably leave it at this.

If Jolly plays on in 2013 we stick with what we have.

If Jolly pulls the pin and we can't afford to keep all our players and get Jamar at the same time then lets look at someone on bargain basement rates. I'm talking about Seaby or Hille, ie someone that can provide Wood pressure from below but also step in and shield Witts and Ceglar if Wood gets injured. Basically what Brogan and Hudson were recruited for this year.

Finally if Jolly pulls the pin and we can sign everyone up as well as chase Jamar then go for him.

It's just that IMO he's a luxury rather than a need and when your caps so tight I don't think it's wise to chase luxury players (which Carlton seem likely to do with Boak when they need in and under ball winners). But that's mainly because I believe that Jolly is going along fine despite injury concerns and that Wood has that natural improvement in him. Though I can fully understand if others feel differently.