Jason Dunstall vs Tony Lockett

[andrew coombs]

Not to ignore that Kernahan also has a genuinely outstanding record in finals and big games. FWIW Sticks sits at equal No.5 on the all-time list of goals kicked in finals (Brereton at 18) and played less finals than all above him on that list.

Brereton and Kerhahans careers can't be judged like that. Kernahan spent far more time playing out of the goal square than Brereton who was fortunate to have Dunstall at full forward. From about 1991 onwards Kernahan was primarily a deep forward who helped out in the ruck when there were stoppages close to goal. There is no doubt he was a great player but it is hard to compare him to other centre half forwards of the era considering the fact he spent less than half his career in that role.

 

[Monkey King]

Brereton and Kerhahans careers can't be judged like that. Kernahan spent far more time playing out of the goal square than Brereton who was fortunate to have Dunstall at full forward. From about 1991 onwards Kernahan was primarily a deep forward who helped out in the ruck when there were stoppages close to goal. There is no doubt he was a great player but it is hard to compare him to other centre half forwards of the era considering the fact he spent less than half his career in that role.

It's easy enough to compare him to other CHF's from having watched them all play. The reference to finals goals wasn't so much a direct comparison between Sticks and Brereton as it was just noting it as a fact; hence the FWIW beginning to the sentence and Brereton's place being bracketed. That said, the point remains that Kernahan has an outstanding and often overlooked finals record, which I think is demonstrated by what I posted. He was a one of the games best big game players, so IMO bringing up Dermie's record in big games while ignoring Sticks' altogether was something that needed remedying.

 

[andrew coombs]

It's easy enough to compare him to other CHF's from having watched them all play. The reference to finals goals wasn't so much a direct comparison between Sticks and Brereton as it was just noting it as a fact; hence the FWIW beginning to the sentence and Brereton's place being bracketed. That said, the point remains that Kernahan has an outstanding and often overlooked finals record, which I think is demonstrated by what I posted. He was a one of the games best big game players, so IMO bringing up Dermie's record in big games while ignoring Sticks' altogether was something that needed remedying.

I understand what you mean with comparisons when it comes to finals and Dermott. I heard Mark Robinson say once that he puts Derm ahead of Dunstall as a player because of Dermotts record in finals. Dunstall played 21 finals and kicked 78 goals including grand final efforts of 1( from CHF), 6,7,4 and 6. In two finals he was injured early and off the ground. Dermott played 28 finals and kicked 53 goals, the most notable being 8 in the 1985 GF ( as FF ) and 5 in the 1988 GF. He was injured early in one final. In my opinion as having watched both players intently through this period Dunstall was the superior player through this finals era. Dermott played some beauties but also had some moderate efforts whereas JD was rarely held and delivered consistent high level performance, final after final.I recken the main reasons Dermott is widely considered a superior finals player to JD ( and pretty much everyone else ) are the brilliant lone hand in the 85 GF and the courage he showed in the 89 GF. He has an almost mystical reputation as a September superstar without peer when this is simply not the case. Great player among many great finals players including Kernahan.

 

[Monkey King]

He has an almost mystical reputation as a September superstar without peer when this is simply not the case. Great player among many great finals players including Kernahan.

Good post. Shows what a dolt Robbo is. Dunstall was a superb finals performer. I still feel heart pangs at what he did to my boyhood hero Bruce Doull in his last game; deserved to go out on a better note than that. But it does demonstrate aptly how the aura of Dermie as a big game player leads to things getting a little overblown sometimes. I mean don't get me wrong, he was awesome in all his pomp and swagger, but certainly not to the point that that alone elevates him above other players, like Dunstall, who were also top big game performers.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

This photo gives you and idea about their relative size. Pretty sure this originally came from when they were in Ricky Nixon's Club 10 - the 10 players he signed up as his first group for Flying Start.

But I got the picture from this article from HS in April asking people to vote for favourite players of 1990's. King just beats Ablett, decent gap to Plugger in 3rd then big gap to Dunstall with a few players in between.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...d-you-bring-back/story-fnkd6ppg-1227305098529

But I got the shock of my life how big Buddy was from this picture on his Twitter with Plugger at last years Sydney B&F or HoF function.

 

[Mr Magic]

Plugger by a fair margin for mine.

Dunstall an all time great - but had outstanding service for most, if not all, of his career.

Plugger played the first 11 seasons of his in mainly shithouse sides (particularly some of those 80's St Kilda sides) and kicked ton after ton and winning a Brownlow.

Also one of the scariest bastards to have laced a boot.

Agree, Lockett easy, no contest really.

Dunstall got favourable treatment from umpires pushing out as well and guys like Blight were murdered by the umpire in an earlier era

 

[andrew coombs]

Agree, Lockett easy, no contest really.

Dunstall got favourable treatment from umpires pushing out as well and guys like Blight were murdered by the umpire in an earlier era

Idiotic post from an idiot with no idea

 

[RandB]

Dunstall gave more goals away to team mates and wasn't a sniper. In that game where he kicked 17 he gave away a few to team-mates, could have got the record.

Lockett was a stalwart of the game and a brilliant set shot but unfortunately (if we're honest here) loved clocking defenders half his size who had the guts to fill the hole.

Dunstall also had to contend with scraggers like Kelly and Silvagni who didn't have the guts to scrag Lockett for fear of their lives.

 

[Mr Magic]

Idiotic post from an idiot with no idea

Not at all.

Its embarrassing to have Dunstall in the same class and your reaction vindicates the perception the truth hurts!

 

[Mr Magic]

Idiotic post from an idiot with no idea

You realise Lockett was a better forward than Carey don't you?

When he won his Brownlow he was a class above

 

[Mr Magic]

Dunstall gave more goals away to team mates and wasn't a sniper. In that game where he kicked 17 he gave away a few to team-mates, could have got the record.

Lockett was a stalwart of the game and a brilliant set shot but unfortunately (if we're honest here) loved clocking defenders half his size who had the guts to fill the hole.

Dunstall also had to contend with scraggers like Kelly and Silvagni who didn't have the guts to scrag Lockett for fear of their lives.

You need to call Silvagni and Kelly chicken to their faces!

 

[RandB]

You need to call Silvagni and Kelly chicken to their faces!

Dont need to, Dunstall has (rightly) made a point of it on multiple occasions, especially with Craig Kelly who shitted him off to no end.

 

[The_Ru]

Lockett was better. When he was playing well (which was most of the time) he was quite simply unstoppable. Dunstall was great but he predominantly relied on a supreme burst of pace and very strong hands. Plugger was a different beast entirely. His ability to win contests no matter the situation could border on superhuman. I loved watching both of them but I have no doubt Lockett was better.

I also think it is absolutely unsustainable to suggest Dunstall was a better footballer than Brereton. Brereton could turn a game in the space of 15 minutes whereas Dunstall's brilliance came about from his consistent and relentless effort.

Interestingly, neither Dunstall nor Lockett would have the size advantage nowadays that they had in their prime. Dunstall is only Crameri size and Lockett is shorter than David Mundy.

 

[Mr Magic]

Lockett was better. When he was playing well (which was most of the time) he was quite simply unstoppable. Dunstall was great but he predominantly relied on a supreme burst of pace and very strong hands. Plugger was a different beast entirely. His ability to win contests no matter the situation could border on superhuman. I loved watching both of them but I have no doubt Lockett was better.

I also think it is absolutely unsustainable to suggest Dunstall was a better footballer than Brereton. Brereton could turn a game in the space of 15 minutes whereas Dunstall's brilliance came about from his consistent and relentless effort.

Interestingly, neither Dunstall nor Lockett would have the size advantage nowadays that they had in their prime. Dunstall is only Crameri size and Lockett is shorter than David Mundy.

Agree, remember in Locketts prime he could get on players shoulders for speckies when he was young to and played in a terrible teams list for a good while.

Dunstall got a lot of footy from great kicks and dominance up the ground.

Dunstall got everything out of his self but he was not he total package as a footy player Lockett was particularly when Lockett was young and on all cylinders.

That said I think Dunstall might have been one of the smartest footy players to ever play the game particularly regarding using intelligence to improve his game

 

[Bombermania]

Two absolute and undoubted champion players, I rate Dunstall just ahead of Lockett as he was from my memory a better player at gathering the ball off the deck, both were outstanding when on the lead and I don't remember them missing too many easy set shots.

People are right to point out what a team player Dunstall was but too be fair he was sounded by several gun forwards, something which Lockett didn't have so he needed to carry the load.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

You need to call Silvagni and Kelly chicken to their faces!

So you're a bogan then?

 

[latrell]

Agree, Lockett easy, no contest really.

Dunstall got favourable treatment from umpires pushing out as well and guys like Blight were murdered by the umpire in an earlier era

You were obviously at Waverley eating popcorn while Dunstall kicked 17 goals 5 against your team weren't you!?

Yep... But Plugger was better wasn't he.

Cretin

 

[Pavlovs Cat]

Dunstall would win you Premierships. Lockett would win you games.

JD>Lockett.

Dunstall played in an awesome side, Plugger played a fair whack of his career in a struggling side and has a better goal average and goal tally. Imagine if Lockett Played for Hawthorn for his entire career.

Lockett>Dunstall

Both champions without a doubt.

 

[Mr Magic]

You were obviously at Waverley eating popcorn while Dunstall kicked 17 goals 5 against your team weren't you!?

Yep... But Plugger was better wasn't he.

Cretin

We were a shit team back then and Hawks were strong.

Have to keep things in perspective

 

[Pavlovs Cat]

Even if that meant getting a loyal player that wouldn't up and leave in his prime? A guy that would lift those around him and be an excellent leader? Someone who stays involved and continues to help the club long after playing? The guy that made sure you hired the right guy for your next coach, who would deliver 3 premierships?

Like the Judd/Hodge comparisons look at what the club gets from them in total vs what you get for a couple of years.

If you compare what Dunstall gave Hawthorn vs what Plugger gave StKilda you get 269 games (1254 goals) vs 183 games (898 goals). Plus Dunstall's service after he retired to Lockett's nothing. You would have a gun full forward every week instead of 12 games a year.

Too bad this thread is about who people think was better rather than who gave their club better service. Yes, I realise you are responding to the Sainter's comment. Hawkies bringing up the premierships Dunstall played in only adds credence to Pluggers position as the better player. Hawthorn were the better team, Lockett the better player.

 

[dipper86]

Dunstall played in an awesome side, Plugger played a fair whack of his career in a struggling side and has a better goal average and goal tally. Imagine if Lockett Played for Hawthorn for his entire career.

Lockett>Dunstall

Both champions without a doubt.

A case can be made both ways if that's your reasoning.

Lockett was the main focal point he would get all of the ball all of the time.

Dunstall on the other hand, shared a forward line with other elite forwards and in turn didn't get as much of the pill directed to him as Lockett did.

Dunstall was no slouch when Hawthorn was sh*t in the mid to late 90's well into his 30's and out of his prime.

 

[Pavlovs Cat]

A case can be made both ways if that's your reasoning.

Lockett was the main focal point he would get all of the ball all of the time.

Dunstall on the other hand, shared a forward line with other elite forwards and in turn didn't get as much of the pill directed to him as Lockett did.

Dunstall was no slouch when Hawthorn was sh*t in the mid to late 90's well into his 30's and out of his prime.

Yeah not much in it Dipper. I certainly don't miss him regularly tearing us a new one.

 

[Stubbie Holder]

Plugger easily...I'm right everyone who disagrees STFU.

 

[BobbyMorri]

Plugger, easy. untouchable at his best.

hated him in 94, my idol in 95.

 

[medusala]

Dunstall an all time great - but had outstanding service for most, if not all, of his career.

Kicked 100 in a very poor team at the tailend of his career. Tallis, Woods etc weren't exactly know for their outstanding disposal.

I also think it is absolutely unsustainable to suggest Dunstall was a better footballer than Brereton.

Totally agree. People forget how good he was. You only had to see when Dunstall was out injured and he played FF how good/ adaptable he was. Made life easier for both Dunstall and Platten.