Game Day JLT R1- Bulldogs vs Hawks @Mars

[immortalmike]

exactly, if you want to develop a guy to pinch hit up forward the best way to do that would be to allow him to play permanent forward during trial games, would it not?

That's far too logical. Get out of here.
I want knee jerk reactions only!

 

[TedDougChris]

I honestly don’t get why anyone would think we should not make the 8 - Barring significant injuries.

Seems to me an unnecessary protective posture.

We could easily have fallen into the 8 last year with a list which was lacking motivation, physical conditioning and a number of internal divisions and distractions.

Unless you believe 2016 was just a fluke - I can’t see how your expectations wouldn’t be top 4.

The only players unavailable from that finals campaign are M Boyd Hamling and Stringer. Stringer barely contributed in that finals series. If Adams was fit - Hamling misses the 2016 finals series.

What we have lost of any real worth is an AA M Boyd at half back. What we have gained is more games together in a very young list, a belief we can do it and if the hungers back than we should challenge all sides and therefore a preliminary final is a pass mark by any logical or historical analysis.

Didn't we lose a couple of close ones due to poor goal kicking last year ?? Would have put us close to the top 8

 

[Bazza Bulldog]

Just watched the replay. We have to remember that Hawks are likely B6, plus it is only JLT.

Positives:
- Williams, Dale, Dunkley, Cordy, McLean ... continue to show upward trajectory growth
- Crozier and Trengrove will be very handy and B22 (I'd play Trengrove in the Ruck)
- Naughton ... trying hard to contain myself
- Adams ... I hope he can stay fit
- Libba showed better intensity
- We kicked the ball better (after the first 5-6 mins)
- Bont continues to improve as a forward (now he needs to get his set shot confidence back)
- JJ ... see Bont, should have kicked 3-4 goals
- Macrae ... jet!

Question Marks
- Picko (before bump) ... didn't do a lot, hopefully more because it is JLT, than any slump
- Wood forward ...hmmm
- Schache ... intensity needs to lift

Depth and not much else
- Jong
- Honeychurch

 

[perro_loco]

Just watched the replay again and was a pretty good game to watch between two teams I now believe will struggle to make the 8. 8-13 bracket for mine


Positives-

Bont
Naughton
Crozier
Dunkley
Work rate from mids better
Some 2016 style link up
Intensity was up at times

Negatives

Experimenting positions again
Forward line looks unconvincing and unstable
Depth is a real issue

I am putting $50 on doggies to make top 6.

 

[Roogal]

Images from Ballarat last Saturday:

 

[dergert]

I've watched schache closely since his junior days. He has more tools than toyd. Sadly both lack aggression and intensity. All the media mugs say you can't teach it, prove them wrong boys.

 

[Yojimbo]

2017 Clearance stats

Hawthorn: 16th
Bulldogs: 17th
Carlton: 18th

JLT1: Lost the Clearance stats (Centre & Stoppage)
Question: How does this change on the back of our
Ruck performance of 20 Hit Outs comprising of;
Trengove x 13
Roughead x 5
Schache x 2
This is the nagging question for me out of JLT1,
Hawthorn don't have a dominant midfield it's
Mitchell or bust and they went longer and more
direct ignoring their normal method of retention
at all costs. They tried things too, it's always
pays to look at both sides of the coin.

 

[Johnny_Dogg4]

2017 Clearance stats

Hawthorn: 16th
Bulldogs: 17th
Carlton: 18th

JLT1: Lost the Clearance stats (Centre & Stoppage)
Question: How does this change on the back of our
Ruck performance of 20 Hit Outs comprising of;
Trengove x 13
Roughead x 5
Schache x 2
This is the nagging question for me out of JLT1,
Hawthorn don't have a dominant midfield it's
Mitchell or bust and they went longer and more
direct ignoring their normal method of retention
at all costs. They tried things too, it's always
pays to look at both sides of the coin.

interesting analysis
we seen to not have a dominant ruck, but lots of part time ones.

boyd and schache used as rucks is useless imo

 

[Mofra]

I've watched schache closely since his junior days. He has more tools than toyd. Sadly both lack aggression and intensity. All the media mugs say you can't teach it, prove them wrong boys.

That's the big concern - aggression seems innate, can't think of many players that learnt it over time.
Scott West credits Royal with getting him "footy tough" so that might be one, Macrae has changed from a junior HFF into a largely inside ball accumulator - they could be the only two and neither are KPPs.

 

[TedDougChris]

That's the big concern - aggression seems innate, can't think of many players that learnt it over time.
Scott West credits Royal with getting him "footy tough" so that might be one, Macrae has changed from a junior HFF into a largely inside ball accumulator - they could be the only two and neither are KPPs.

Was wondering in the second half were we trying to use Schache in a way that is a) most suited to his current strengths and b) gives him time to develop his confidence to potentially become a better player over time.

 

[_M_16_]

Aggression on a sports field is not a learnt trait or genetics, it's something the player themselves just have to bring out of themselves. And YES it can come out at any age, despite what you see of Schache now doesn't mean it will always be the case

I played American Football for a few years, particularly during my teenage years (mind you I was also a junior playing seniors undersized), I used to slow down in tackles and hesitate against bigger players, then one day a switch just flicked in early 20's and suddenly I love hitting people and being hit and just have a crack. You realize, hey this doesn't hurt as much as I thought. Now cause I no longer hesitate, I'm happy to throw my body on the line for anything. He just needs to throw himself hard into a contest a few times, find that hunger to fight for the ball and use his body. Once he does it a few times, that's when he himself will gain confidence to back himself up and to realize its not too hard after all, this is fun, no one can beat me attitude

 

[ScragCity]

Just watched the replay. We have to remember that Hawks are likely B6, plus it is only JLT.

Positives:
- Williams, Dale, Dunkley, Cordy, McLean ... continue to show upward trajectory growth
- Crozier and Trengrove will be very handy and B22 (I'd play Trengrove in the Ruck)
- Naughton ... trying hard to contain myself
- Adams ... I hope he can stay fit
- Libba showed better intensity
- We kicked the ball better (after the first 5-6 mins)
- Bont continues to improve as a forward (now he needs to get his set shot confidence back)
- JJ ... see Bont, should have kicked 3-4 goals
- Macrae ... jet!

Question Marks
- Picko (before bump) ... didn't do a lot, hopefully more because it is JLT, than any slump
- Wood forward ...hmmm
- Schache ... intensity needs to lift

Depth and not much else
- Jong
- Honeychurch

Hawks won't be bottom 6. They will be fighting for a spot in the 8.

They have a formidable forward line with Rough, Breust, Gunston, Rioli and Poppy; most of these guys are also solid when having a run in the guts. If Mitchell and Jaeger stay fit they already have a better midfield than Essendon. McEvoy is a good ruck in his prime and can dominate games as we saw in our last game against them last year. Their back six is also very solid with the likes of Frawley, Stratton and Sicily who has become a genuine gun.

 

[Mattdougie]

I am putting $50 on doggies to make top 6.

I wish you the best of luck with that

 

[JJHunter]

Flexibility & unpredictability are hallmarks of the Beveridge way, justified by a premiership. The accepted rules of winning a premiership were overturned in 2016 and repeated the following year. No matter how much supporters might question his way, he'll follow his instincts anyway. Whether we agree or not, it works. It was a practice match, the outcome didn't matter, there were a number of experiments tested, even the match day coach.

How do you figure this ? Our back six stayed pretty constant through the year as did other positions.

Flexibility possibly in Boyd being forced to ruck through injury or others having to be replaced by depth through injury but I wouldnt look at season 2016 and say we were unpredictable. Picken was moved forward and Boyd back but that started when he took over in 2015.
Our 2016 I would have thought was quite predictable

 

[JJHunter]

Its jlt. Theyre experimenting. Calm ya farm ppl. Crikey. At least when the whips were cracking our mids kicked into gear.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

Experimenting comes at a price. Gia said Wood has spent the entire preseason training as a fwd so those questioning it are not doing so cause it was trialed in 1 JLT game - I wouldnt personally care if they were having a quick look at it - but they are no experimenting when its been all of preseason.

 

[JJHunter]

Bev plays Wood fwd and so you've put his head on the chopping block ?
It's the first game of the JLT for Christ sake lol.

Clearly its not just based on the Wood move. I could list numerous club decisions that could be considered questionable since the flag.

And its clearly not what I said - I only said you live and die by the sword.
If flexibility is his mantra and he is building a team of jack of all trades and we dont play finals this year after winning a flag 2 seasons ago
serious questions need to be asked about the clubs coaching and the mantra that would have had us fail two years in a row - that goes for Bevo and all coaches.

 

[Charlie Bucket]

Clearly its not just based on the Wood move. I could list numerous club decisions that could be considered questionable since the flag.

And its clearly not what I said - I only said you live and die by the sword.
If flexibility is his mantra and he is building a team of jack of all trades and we dont play finals this year after winning a flag 2 seasons ago
serious questions need to be asked about the clubs coaching and the mantra that would have had us fail two years in a row - that goes for Bevo and all coaches.

Yeah, IF the club misses finals this year. How about you let the season play out before you ask supporters to start questioning the coach and club.
Remember, Bev has coached 3 seasons for 2 finals appearances, 4/5 finals wins, 1 premiership and he was in charge of the teams ( gameplan/style ) complete overhaul post 2014 when some thought, including myself, that we were in one of the worst positions the club had been in in years.

Yeah, we've made some questionable moves since 2014 but to harp on those instead of embracing the good moves and the coming season and those ahead while being confident in our coach and players seems extremely negative and slightly draining.

 

[Golden_6]

Hawks won't be bottom 6. They will be fighting for a spot in the 8.

They have a formidable forward line with Rough, Breust, Gunston, Rioli and Poppy; most of these guys are also solid when having a run in the guts. If Mitchell and Jaeger stay fit they already have a better midfield than Essendon. McEvoy is a good ruck in his prime and can dominate games as we saw in our last game against them last year. Their back six is also very solid with the likes of Frawley, Stratton and Sicily who has become a genuine gun.

Agreed. I think Hawks make the finals. They still have a premiership standard forward line and have discovered some serious young talent in Sicily, Burton, Hardwick etc.

It comes down to Jaegar staying fit though because Mitchell and a bunch of B and C grader midfielders wont get it done.

 

[murphy2bedabest]

Just some stats for people who are questioning our forward line on here and in the media.

Ok it is a very small sample size.

On Saturday the dogs had
46 inside F50
Efficiency 61%
Shots on goal accuracy 53%
Score for 100
Score against 78
Marks inside F50 16

Compare that to 2017
IF50 efficiency 46.3 % 10th
Shots on goals accuracy 43.1% 18th
Score for 84.4 15th
Score against 87 11th
Marks IF50 12 10th

Leaders in 2017
IF50 Efficiency Essendon 50.4%
Shots on goal accuracy dees 54%
Score for crows 109.8
Score against swans 75
Marks IF50 crows 15

As stated very small sample size, but we improved in every aspect on 2017, by a fair bit as well.

We are on par or better than all the leaders in these stats from 2017, if these numbers keep up if won’t matter the names of the goal kickers as the process will be working and we will be in the top 2.

 

[TempletonTheRat]

Guess we didn't miss the footy much in the off season

Some absolutely fantastic reactions in this thread

I had better stock up on the popcorn for JLT2 - there is going to be some great melts from the knee jerkers and unbelievers

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

But would he have done it as well? I don't think so.
Despite looking ok in his first couple of games last year I don't think Young has the strength or ability to read the play that Naughton has.
That mark he took under heavy pressure from Roughead was first class.

Yes maybe not as well but Young was pretty good and dont forget he was the youngest AFL player when he debuted. I am prety sure he took something like a dozen marks in his first game and trailed off towards the end.
I would say both of them are going to be handy players in the future but at this stage only one of the two will likely play seniors.

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

Of course
Dull off season
And I get sucked into the political boards over summer

Of course it’s a dreadful waste of time.

But I’m pumped for this season and more importantly - I suspect our boys are too.

Yes but Barnabys paternity questions made about much sense as Stringers tattoos!

 

[Bulldogs Legend]

I've watched schache closely since his junior days. He has more tools than toyd. Sadly both lack aggression and intensity. All the media mugs say you can't teach it, prove them wrong boys.

So long as he has more consistent intensity than Stringer I will be happy!

 

[Bazza Bulldog]

Hawks won't be bottom 6. They will be fighting for a spot in the 8.

They have a formidable forward line with Rough, Breust, Gunston, Rioli and Poppy; most of these guys are also solid when having a run in the guts. If Mitchell and Jaeger stay fit they already have a better midfield than Essendon. McEvoy is a good ruck in his prime and can dominate games as we saw in our last game against them last year. Their back six is also very solid with the likes of Frawley, Stratton and Sicily who has become a genuine gun.

Happy to disagree Scrag. If they have a perfect run with injuries, then maybe 8-12. Can Rioli, O'Meara, Birchall ... stay healthy? I also wouldn't get too excited by Big Boy dominating our ruck division. You don't loose Mitchell, Hodge and Lewis, without a dip. I am also unsure of whether there moves (bold though they were) have helped their culture.

 

[D Mitchell]

How do you figure this ? Our back six stayed pretty constant through the year as did other positions.

It's not quite as micro as that.

Hamling and Roberts didn't cement their spots until late in the season. Bev invested in a 6 man defence rather than who could play on who. When Hamling and Roberts played in finals, they played to a game plan, spoil, spread, retreat to a space. It could have been Adams and Cordy, wouldn't have mattered, they knew what to do. That's unpredictable

.... Boyd being forced to ruck through injury or others having to be replaced by depth through injury but I wouldn't look at season 2016 and say we were unpredictable. Picken was moved forward and Boyd back but that started when he took over in 2015. Our 2016 I would have thought was quite predictable

Was it Boyd forced to ruck or that Bev wanted him to be more than a too young and inexperienced tall forward ?, the latter, evidenced by how he's dealt with all his players. Jong rucking, Bont third man up, Stringer behind the ball, Johannison anywhere between back and forward pockets, Smith in the forward line in the finals, on the injury couch otherwise. Unpredictable doesn't mean startling change Bont on the ball but being 3rd man up instead waiting for the ball to dribble out to him. You don't get a game in Bev's teams if you only play one position and don't run flat out both ways.

You re right about the more settled backline but it was the system that was settled rather than the individuals.