John Coleman vs Peter Hudson

[Damon_3388]

No television has robbed us of greats like Coleman.

It's probably also served to overrate their legend somewhat as well, with the stories getting taller over time and so forth.

 

[Trav 20]

It's probably also served to overrate their legend somewhat as well, with the stories getting taller over time and so forth.

Their goal averages don't lie.

But at the end of the day all you can be is the best of your particular era and they were. It's splitting hairs to choose between them.

 

[HairyO]

At any stage did anyone getting whacked think to snatch the umbrella from her and javelin it 20m back into the crowd, or snap it over their knee and hand it back to her?

This was the good old days. You didnt touch a lady

 

[Damon_3388]

This was the good old days. You didnt touch a lady

I'm not saying touch the lady, just her umbrella. I don't think gender or age gives her a free pass to hit people with it, either.

 

[HairyO]

I'm not saying touch the lady, just her umbrella. I don't think gender or age gives her a free pass to hit people with it, either.

70 years ago.

Victoria Park.

Pretty sure Collingwood supporters did whatever they wanted.

Certainly the players did.

 

[Gone Critical]

Honestly, no one here can make a credible call. No one posting here would have seen Coleman play, and have been old enough then to understand footy.

Even if you were an adult in the 1940's and 50's, went to see your team play every week home and away, you would have only seen Coleman play once or twice a year depending on the 18 team draw, you played 4 teams only once in the season. There was no TV and no visual recording of almost all games. You would have got information by reading about his exploits as the main source of his greatness.

Its not that different from looking historically and forming an opinion.

Hudson, who I saw in the flesh a fair few occasions and I grew up through his career, was still mainly assessed by reports of the day and snippets on replays as there was nothing like the way we watch footy today and see all the players in every match every week if so inclined.

I would go Coleman but not by much just because he was so good immediately and did it in an era where it was more difficult for FFs to kick bags of goals. The late 60's and the 70's were a golden era for FFs with the game increasingly centred around them.

 

[Procrastinator35]

What were the average goals per game when Coventry was getting around in the 20s and 30s??

Coventry averaged 4.25 per game....In an 18 game comp, plus the regular 2-3 games of finals for the pies back then. That equates to an 85 goals per season average....Not quite the heights of Lockett 4.84 @ 104 season average over 22 games; Or Dunstall 4.66 @ 100 Season average over 22 games.

Coventry also played 50 odd more games than them both....Over a 22 game season adjusted, he'd average around the 93 mark over 14 seasons

Pratt was probably more the Coleman equivalent of that era, whereas Coventry had more of a Dunstall-esque like career.

 

[doppleganger]

Coventry averaged 4.25 per game....In an 18 game comp, plus the regular 2-3 games of finals for the pies back then. That equates to an 85 goals per season average....Not quite the heights of Lockett 4.84 @ 104 season average over 22 games; Or Dunstall 4.66 @ 100 Season average over 22 games.

Coventry also played 50 odd more games than them both....Over a 22 game season adjusted, he'd average around the 93 mark over 14 seasons

Pratt was probably more the Coleman equivalent of that era, whereas Coventry had more of a Dunstall-esque like career.

You misinterpreted my question.

I know Coventry's individual per game average.

I know that Coventry is the only player to kick more than 100 goals in finals footy, and holds the record for goals in a GF.

What I was asking was what was the actual average scoring in the 20s-30s?

Would teams average just 10-12 goals a game back in the 20s?

When Coventry kicked 9 in the 1928 GF, Collingwood only kicked 13 to Richmond's 9 for the game...so just 22 goals kicked for the game, Coventry's 9 was more than 40% of the goals for the GF.

When Gaz kicked 9 in 89, the Hawks and Cats both kicked 21 goals each. Gaz 9 was 22% of goals kicked that day.

We know scoring in the 2010s has dried up in comparison to 90s.

So the question being was Coventry avg 4.25 goals when teams were only kicking 11-12 for the game?

How does that compare to a guys like Dunstall and Lockett who avg high 4s but when teams were kicking 15-16 per game??

 

[Bobby_]

Even if you were an adult in the 1940's and 50's, went to see your team play every week home and away, you would have only seen Coleman play once or twice a year depending on the 18 team draw, you played 4 teams only once in the season. There was no TV and no visual recording of almost all games. You would have got information by reading about his exploits as the main source of his greatness.

Its not that different from looking historically and forming an opinion.

Hudson, who I saw in the flesh a fair few occasions and I grew up through his career, was still mainly assessed by reports of the day and snippets on replays as there was nothing like the way we watch footy today and see all the players in every match every week if so inclined.

I would go Coleman but not by much just because he was so good immediately and did it in an era where it was more difficult for FFs to kick bags of goals. The late 60's and the 70's were a golden era for FFs with the game increasingly centred around them.

Was Hudson (and those earlier players) ever double teamed to prevent them from dominating?
Or was it more about trying to score more than your opponents and hope for the best in the dying stages of a match?
Pretty much all footage I ever seen shows a very basic game where defensive tactics were at a bare minimum.

 

[Bombers Fan]

Lockett, Coventry & Dunstall have them in terms of longevity & goals on the board, yes....But for their sheer impact & goal Average, Coleman & Hudson leave em all for dead.

Lockett: 4.84 average, Dunstall 4.66, Coventry 4.25 <<< Coleman 5.48, Hudson 5.64

Over 5 full seasons, Coleman averaged 107 goals per year (18/19 game seasons)....Over 6 full seasons Hudson averaged 121 goals per year. (20/22 game seasons)

Over 13 full seasons, Lockett averaged 104 goals per year (22 game seasons)..Over 12.5 full seasons Dunstall averaged 100 goals per year (22 game seasons)

It's not even close.

How do you have 12.5 full seasons?

Anyway, too young for both Coleman and Hudson, but my father (maybe biased) said that Coleman was better due to the attention he got and that he was still able to kick that many.

 

[Gone Critical]

Was Hudson (and those earlier players) ever double teamed to prevent them from dominating?
Or was it more about trying to score more than your opponents and hope for the best in the dying stages of a match?
Pretty much all footage I ever seen shows a very basic game where defensive tactics were at a bare minimum.

You are correct. It was much more positional, a one on one game with few tactics. Full forward played on the full back all day. Occasionally the back pocket may try to double up on the good full forwards but that meant his opponent, the resting ruckman. was given some freedom.

In those days the forward pockets were almost always occupied by the resting rover and ruckman and the resting ruck rover was on the HFF. Occasionally the resting rucks went to the back pocket. There was a 19th and 20th man but if you went off you didnt come back on. No interchange. Even when interchange came it was used sparingly and most players played the whole game on the ground.

 

[Procrastinator35]

You misinterpreted my question.

I know Coventry's individual per game average.

I know that Coventry is the only player to kick more than 100 goals in finals footy, and holds the record for goals in a GF.

What I was asking was what was the actual average scoring in the 20s-30s?

Would teams average just 10-12 goals a game back in the 20s?

When Coventry kicked 9 in the 1928 GF, Collingwood only kicked 13 to Richmond's 9 for the game...so just 22 goals kicked for the game, Coventry's 9 was more than 40% of the goals for the GF.

When Gaz kicked 9 in 89, the Hawks and Cats both kicked 21 goals each. Gaz 9 was 22% of goals kicked that day.

We know scoring in the 2010s has dried up in comparison to 90s.

So the question being was Coventry avg 4.25 goals when teams were only kicking 11-12 for the game?

How does that compare to a guys like Dunstall and Lockett who avg high 4s but when teams were kicking 15-16 per game??

Sorry to misinterpret your question & in taking so long to reply.

Obviously Coventry was a trail-blazer in being the first to crack the tonne in a season. However, Pratt played in pretty well the same era & he seemed to have no trouble in dominating the competition at the peak of his career....Though his career peak lasted no where near that of Coventry.

Coventry's best years were when Collingwood were at their most dominant as a team with his brother Syd, the Collier brothers, Rumney & Gibbs informing a stellar cast.....Similarly, Pratt's peak occurred the same time that South Melbourne were a power side, playing in 4 Grand Finals in a row. So while one may argue that it was tougher to kick the tonne back then, being in a dominant side certainly helped.

That said, using team goal averages back then as any kind of a gauge would be erroneous, given the sides that both Coventry & Pratt played in, averaged more than their opposition....The fact that Moloney, Todd, Titus & Mohr were also able to crack the tonne in that era, suggests that it wasn't any more easier or difficult than in the Coleman or Hudson eras.

However, Coleman stands out as the only player to crack the tonne regularly, when no one else could, over 2 decades +.

Goalkicking & kicking the tonne, seem to run in cycles, in keeping with the predominant style & tactics of the game.

 

[queensberryrules]

Bump.
Tex in hallowed company averaging 5.5 goals a game so far in 2021.

Perspective - do this for a season, sorry, a career, and up with Huddo and JC.

I watched a fair bit of Peter back in the day, hard to believe in retrospect his feats actually happened.

 

[theiaofseed]

Coleman only 25 years of age before his sudden retirement.

The final season of his career, he had already kicked bags of 14 & 10 goals.
He kicked 9 goals against Geelong, the team that finished top of the ladder.
Already booted 5 goals in 2½ quarters against a team that would finish third.

It's fair to say he was well and truly at the peak of his powers in 1954 and one can only imagine what might have been had he not sustained the knee injury.

Hudson at 25(1971) had just capped off a 150 goal season on the back of 125,120,146 goal seasons, kicked 8 goals by half time of round one in 1972 before injuring his knee. Played 3 games over the following 2 years, came back 1977 and kick 110 goals. Kicked 616 goals from 81 games in the TFL post knee injury at an average of 7.6 goals per game.

 

[detox]

Haha this is bigfooty at his finest.

How can you really debate this unless you're 100.

 

[yyou]

How old are you folks?!

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