News Jordan Galluci invited to train with Richmond.

[Meteoric Rise]

No need to get personal , trying to defame because I don’t share your opinion or wish to focus solely on your selective information . Happy to agree to disagree .

Ha ha. You post a yawning cat in response to my post and now describe my post as containing selective information(which you haven’t focussed on so how could you possibly know?) And then you tell me there is no need to get personal.

Not wanting to pick a fight, but to be fair that is laughable hypocrisy. Happy to engage you or not on any terms you want. I disagree with you about Jackson. You play the ball I will. You play the man I am happy to do that too.

You are welcome to pick up any single point or every point in my post I will discuss it with you reasonably. But you didn’t. I don’t think you have been led to your position on Jackson by a reasonable consideration of all of the available evidence.

 

[The Mighty]

It improved 10 fold when we went from Video tapes to actual spending money on the FD.

The Biggest thing to happen to the RFC in the past 5 years is simple for mine.

The return of Balme as Footy Boss.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Had high hopes for Turner.

I thought he looked like he was going to be good in his first year, but there is clearly something the club doesn’t rate about him. Hopefully he plays some good footy and pops up somewhere else for a half decent career but it seems Richmond didn’t see him fitting their preferred profile.

 

[The Mighty]

We analysed this in fine detail on the Francis Jackson thread.

Roast - Francis Jackson

Fine Eyes 🤓

www.bigfooty.com

My conclusion after comparing Richmond recruiting with two of the standard bearers of the Jackson era(2005-2015) was that even after allowing for Richmond’s better array of picks we outperformed the Hawks and roughly broke even or slightly outperformed the very highly rated Cats recruiting department over this period.

We discussed all the issues around resourcing etc on the thread and I think it is clear in hindsight on any fair comparison that Jackson did a fantastic job. I think I commented it is also clear that the club sees him as a very good recruiter because he was retained after the 2016 review where a lot of footy department employees were not, so it is not like they were afraid to sack people.

The evolution of our recruiting department seems to have been fantastic. Since Jackson was employed as a full time recruiter in 2006, two further full timers were added in 2009, another I think in 2013 and nobody has left. The club seems to have done a great job backing all of these guys despite some understandable hiccups along the way, especially given the relatively huge lack of resources in the early years. That Hartley and Clarke and Williams added to Jackson’s performance is to be expected as they were replacing thin air. That they performed well under him must also reflect well upon him. That they have also performed well sitting over Jackson in the hierarchy since 2017 must also partially reflect well on Jackson.

I could go on but I think the disdain some posters show for Jackson is completely unfair and he has been a brilliant force for the RFC. He seems to have been especially strong in the area of finding team players of great character…perhaps his school teacher background gave him a big edge in this area.

——————————————————————————————————————————————


Anyway, here is the Hawthorn comparison I did from that thread:


I will start with my benchmark of 100 games for the club as a starting point measure of successful drafting here. We can break this group down further later. During the Jackson period, we drafted the following list of players who have played 100 games or more for Richmond or who look nearly certain to do so.

White, Riewoldt, Edwards, King, Cotchin, Rance, Vickery, Martin, Astbury, Grimes, Conca, Houli, B Ellis, Vlastuin, Mcintosh, Short, Castagna, Lambert, Rioli, Broad. (20 players)



Hawthorn came up with the following list:

Birchall, Guerra, Suckling, Rioli, Whitecross, Schoenmakers, Shiels, Breust, Stratton, Duryea, Smith, Puopolo, Ceglar, Sicily, Hardwick. (15 players)



Both clubs took roughly 90 picks in the period. I think it is fair to assume Jackson had a better array of picks to work with, but let us see if that is correct. I will list all top 60 picks both clubs took, and let’s just say after that, all picks are of roughly equal value including rookie picks because if a club really wanted to take a player who ends up at another club with a later pick than 60 they have had their chance.

Richmond array of top 60 picks 2005-2015:

2, 3, 6, 8, 8, 9, 12, 12, 13, 15, 15, 18, 19, 24, 26, 26, 26, 30, 31, 33, 33, 35, 40, 42, 44, 47, 50, 50, 51, 51, 51, 52, 55, 58, 58, 60, (all those numbers add up to 1103/36 = our average draft pick in this sample is 30.63)

As we can see:

- 36 picks in the top 60, including

- 6 x top 10 picks
- 7 x 11-20 range picks
- 5 x 21-30 range picks
- 5 x 31-40 range picks
- 5 x 41-50 range picks
- 8 x 51-60 range picks


Hawthorn array of top 60 picks 2005-2015:

3, 6, 6, 12, 14, 16, 18, 19, 19, 22, 22, 24, 24, 28, 29, 31, 33, 33, 34, 38, 38, 38, 38, 39, 40, 44, 45, 46, 49, 50, 50, 53, 55, 56, 56, 57, 58, 59(all those numbers add up to 1302/38 picks = Hawks average pick from this sample was 34.26.)

- 38 picks in the top 60, including

- 3 x top 10 picks
- 6 x 11-20 range picks
- 6 x 21-30 range picks
- 10 x 31-40 range picks
- 6 x 41-50 range picks
- 7 x 51-60 range picks

So:

Top 10 picks, Richmond 6 v Hawks 3
11-30 range picks, Richmond 12 v Hawks 12
30-60 range picks Hawks 23 v Tigers 18

You would have to say the Tigers had the better picks at the high quality end despite Hawks having more top 40 picks overall. Just looking at that array, you would say you would expect the Tigers to find about 2-3 extra high grade or elite players, but hold no other advantage.

Now I will attempt to grade both clubs’ 100+ game players.

Richmond V Hawthorn

Elite - Riewoldt, Cotchin, Rance, Martin. V Rioli, Smith, (*Josh Kennedy)
Very high grade players who may not be truly elite - Edwards, Grimes, Houli, Vlastuin, Lambert V Birchall, Shiels, Breust, Sicily, Stratton
Other above average players for 100+ gamers - Astbury, Ellis, Rioli V Guerra, Hardwick, Puopolo, (*Ben McGlynn)
Average for 100+ gamers - Broad, Mcintosh, Conca, Short, Castagna, King, White V Ceglar, Duryea, Suckling
Disappointing for 100+ gamers - Vickery V Schoenmakers, Whitecross(neither ever really established themselves as first choice players over a sustained period)

I think what you see is the expected couple of extra elite players on the Tigers side. Aside from that it is quite even, though the Tigers probably have some extra younger players who could realistically move up the rankings over and above what the Hawks have.

* Make up your own mind about Kennedy and McGlynn. The Hawks drafted them in the period, but they only ever played a handful of matches at the Hawks. They were each traded away essentially for picks around 40 so the Hawks didn’t rate them highly. Kennedy in any event was a bit of a gift as a father son in the third round and Richmond/Jackson never got any such gifts in that period.

Overall, in terms of drafting meaningful players, and adjusting for the picks each club had at their disposal, I would say Richmond comes out decently on comparison. Certainly nothing to be sacking your recruiter over, and they didn’t. The Tigers picked up a couple more elite players and they are proper highly decorated elite, Brownlow Medallist, All Australian Captain, triple Coleman Medallist, Premiership captain, 5 time All Australian. Each of our elite guys has at least one of those accolades to his name. I think I am right in saying the Hawks didn’t come up with any of those from their draft haul in the period. We drafted 16 premiership players in the period, the Hawks drafted 13.


Also, for interest sake, let’s also list top 30 hits and misses....

Richmond(average top 30 pick is pick 15.1)
8 strong outcomes from the 18 top 30 picks. 2 Cotchin, 3, Martin, 9 Vlastuin, 13 Riewoldt, 15 Ellis, 15 Rioli, 18 Rance, 26 Edwards
8 Outright fails: 8 Oakley-Nichols, 19 Ben Griffiths, 12 Ben Lennon, 12 Corey Ellis 24 Cleve Hughes, 26 Todd Elton, 26 Jayden Post, 30 Jake Batchelor,
2 Not good outcomes: 8 Vickery, 6 Conca though both played over a hundred games and Vickery compensation got us the Bolton pick.

Hawthorn(average top 30 pick is pick 17.5)
3 strong outcomes from 15 top 30 picks. 12 Rioli 14 Birchall 19 Smith
2 jury out. 28 Tim O’Brien 19 Ryan Burton(traded out plus effectively about pick 10 for 25yo Wingard, so maybe they got about pick 19 value back for him)
5 Outright fails: 6 Beau Dowler, 6 Mitch Thorp, 22 Kieran Lovell, 22 Beau Muston, 24 Billy Hurtung,
5 Not good outcomes: 24 Brent Renouf, 18 Max Bailey, 3 Xavier Ellis none of these played 100 games but pretty sure all played in one flag, 16 Schoenmakers and 29 Whitecross who never really established as first choice but also played in a flag each.

I think Richmond do really well on that comparison, although we did again have the better array of picks to work with.

We have selected the benchmark club of the era here and analysed it I think fairly and carefully in this post. I think Francis Jackson has been shown to have done well overall. When you consider that he was part-time in 2005, full-time but the only recruiter 2006-2008, and the recruiting department remained under-resourced versus AFL average until 2014, well if he was truly responsible for all our recruiting decisions 2005-2015, he has performed miracles to not lower his colours to the much better resourced Hawks.

They also had Jesus Spangher whilst we had Liam McJesus

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

The Biggest thing to happen to the RFC in the past 5 years is simple for mine.

The return of Balme as Footy Boss.

No doubt.Has the Monte Carlo Midas Touch.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Ha ha. You post a yawning cat in response to my post and now describe my post as containing selective information(which you haven’t focussed on so how could you possibly know?) And then you tell me there is no need to get personal.

Not wanting to pick a fight, but to be fair that is laughable hypocrisy. Happy to engage you or not on any terms you want. I disagree with you about Jackson. You play the ball I will. You play the man I am happy to do that too.

You are welcome to pick up any single point or every point in my post I will discuss it with you reasonably. But you didn’t. I don’t think you have been led to your position on Jackson by a reasonable consideration of all of the available evidence.

I’ve dealt with Francis and with many that have , I reckon I have a pretty good handle on the whole picture .
I have never got personal with you nor tried to dis credit your postings and have no interest in doing so .

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

I thought he looked like he was going to be good in his first year, but there is clearly something the club doesn’t rate about him. Hopefully he plays some good footy and pops up somewhere else for a half decent career but it seems Richmond didn’t see him fitting their preferred profile.

Think he and English were stiff.Because of Covid they really didn't have much of a chance.

 

[The Mighty]

I thought he looked like he was going to be good in his first year, but there is clearly something the club doesn’t rate about him. Hopefully he plays some good footy and pops up somewhere else for a half decent career but it seems Richmond didn’t see him fitting their preferred profile.

Turner looked like a nice kid a good nice fella one that mums in the past would refer to as "such a nice boy".

Was he not tough or hard edged enough for Richmond Footy? I wouldnt know never saw him play or train.

He might've fit the athletic profile but maybe he just didn't have "IT" about him.

No chance to develop either in 2020 with a proper VFL season which has proved very costly and unfortunate for a lot of kids across the country, both leading to some like Fraser and Luke being cut from lists and even more not even getting drafted that may have under normal circumstances.

Pat Naish looks the same for mine and at this rate will likely be gone end of 21 unless he takes some big strides.

 

[Phar Ace]

Turner looked like a nice kid a good nice fella one that mums in the past would refer to as "such a nice boy".

Was he not tough or hard edged enough for Richmond Footy? I wouldnt know never saw him play or train.

He might've fit the athletic profile but maybe he just didn't have "IT" about him.

No chance to develop either in 2020 with a proper VFL season which has proved very costly and unfortunate for a lot of kids across the country, both leading to some like Fraser and Luke being cut from lists and even more not even getting drafted that may have under normal circumstances.

Pat Naish looks the same for mine and at this rate will likely be gone end of 21 unless he takes some big strides.

On exposed form over a couple of years I would probably have kept Turner over Naish, and I still like what Naish brings. I read somewhere on here (so it st be right) that they thought Turner wasn't courageous enough - but I've always though he was pretty good - seen him stand under the incoming ball plenty of times. Had reasonable pace, skills were solid and got plenty of it when playing on busy side of the ground, so not sure what the knock might have been. If we had not had Covid in 2020 it might have been a different story for those kids still making their way on the list.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I’ve dealt with Francis and with many that have , I reckon I have a pretty good handle on the whole picture .
I have never got personal with you nor tried to dis credit your postings and have no interest in doing so .

I must have misinterpreted the yawning feline.

Ok you have some personal dealings with Francis Jackson, I could see how that might help a person be in a better position to judge somebody.

But overall, don’t you think it is ultimately right to judge a person’s work based on their results weighed against industry standards in their role? I don’t know much more about Jackson than what I have read in one or two interviews. But from where I sit his results are really starting to stack up. He is only one part of a much bigger picture of course, but I am struggling to see how the club could have achieved what it has in recent years had he not done a great job overall.

I would love to hear why you think that is wrong...

 

[Phar Ace]

I must have misinterpreted the yawning feline.

Ok you have some personal dealings with Francis Jackson, I could see how that might help a person be in a better position to judge somebody.

But overall, don’t you think it is ultimately right to judge a person’s work based on their results weighed against industry standards in their role? I don’t know much more about Jackson than what I have read in one or two interviews. But from where I sit his results are really starting to stack up. He is only one part of a much bigger picture of course, but I am struggling to see how the club could have achieved what it has in recent years had he not done a great job overall.

I would love to hear why you think that is wrong...

Francis Jackson had very limited resources in his early days - nothing like most Clubs, initially at least. He may even have been part-time himself still in 2005 as he still had his teaching role as well, I'm trying to recall. His intel from Qld, NSW and WA was very limited and very dependent on a couple of Miller's mates. The then General Manager of Football, Greg Miller, had to have his hand on everything - that's how he rolled. He was 'let go' mid 2008:

"Richmond president Gary March told a press conference on Monday that Miller no longer had the skills to take the club forward." That says a lot!

I think Francis was good for RFC during a very tricky time, post-Beck, structurally and financially. Gary March presided over fixing a lot of that.

It's one thing to draft players with talent - it is another thing entirely to develop the players to show that talent in games. Look at some of the Assistant Coaches that also had development roles at Hawthorn : all up, six future AFL senior coaches – Damien Hardwick, Leon Cameron, Adam Simpson, Luke Beveridge, Bolton and Fagan would cut their teeth working underneath or (in Fagan's case) alongside Clarkson. Bolton excepted, all repeat finalist coaches too! The talent only gets better under that lot!

Comparisons are fraught with dangerous misunderstandings. That Richmond had/has sufficient cattle to play finals repeatedly since 2013, winning three of the last four, is the stuff that recruiters lay in bed dreaming about - so to try and pick holes in the craft of Francis Jackson over his tenure is a tricky business I would have thought. I've had the pleasure of sharing many an email with Francis, some of which he has not agreed with my summation of would-be draft targets. His rationale I always found to be first class though, because, while its not quite crystal ball gazing, it can feel like it sometimes!

 

[69vintage]

So how's that Jordan Galluci bloke go ?
Couldn't find anything in his thread .

On SM-G950F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Phar Ace]

 

[The Mighty]

Meh .....................Pass.

Markov had an elite Mario Brothers Mo too but he also had a stacka bad navy tatts.

And 2 achilles tendons that worked.

 

[Drunken Wookie]

Reminds me of that other Jordan we had.

 

[Tenacious T]

As much chance as McChins being chairman of Indigenous Reconciliation Board.

 

[Bojangles17]

Heard zippo about the two south aussies , heard eggs looking ok , so figures perhaps coaches want to see more exposed form from the prospects

 

[THE_GUN]

Not a fan of galluci , 4 years for 27 games averaging 12 touches 1 tackle and 0.3 goals a game doesnt scream richmond player to me
Mansell, Coupouris, Green are plyers that are fresh and have potential and upside with green also Richmond royalty blood lines and a brother thats itching to get to the tigers.

 

[tigs2010]

Reminds me of that other Jordan we had.

The one that delivered the GOAT ?

 

[Drunken Wookie]

The one that delivered the GOAT ?

The goat deliverer himself!

 

[captain blood 17]

Is currently tearing it up on the track and has impressed. Anyone who was involved in the Adelaide train wreck football club i am happy to give a leave pass to. Definitely one to watch.

 

[Waca Jr]

In before his only game of the year is the 2021 GF v Port. Just for the melts

 

[Bojangles17]

Is currently tearing it up on the track and has impressed. Anyone who was involved in the Adelaide train wreck football club i am happy to give a leave pass to. Definitely one to watch.

It actually wouldn’t surprise at all to see him leapfrog the other candidates , whether that materialises to being a useful senior player remains to be seen, like always I’ll give him a chance until proven otherwise

 

[energyquant]

Richmond is in the priveleged position of being able to recruit players who bring a single elite capability to the table. They can be slotted into the team to solve a problem. If Galluci still has elite speed, then he can play a role at Richmond (small forward). He's competing with guys like Caddy (mongrel) and Aarts (workrate) for a bench position.

 

[ROYCY HART A TRUE CHF]

Meh .....................Pass.

Markov had an elite Mario Brothers Mo too but he also had a stacka bad navy tatts.

And 2 achilles tendons that worked.

Yeah......but we don't have Markov anymore !!!
Reckon this bloke could be a bit of a smokey.
Effectively getting a still relatively young former first round pick for nicks.