Josh Fraser - whats your opinion

[Turbocat]

Josh Fraser

Whats the general opinion on him by Pie board?I was talking to a Pie follower today and he was expressing his disappointment with the big fella.He sort of compared him with Hille of Ess and said he was too easily pushed aside,always seem to injured etc. whereas Hille is a big strong body. My point of view was that Hilles had a lot more protection and the Dons recruited big guys to help him out, eg. Salmon, Allen.I sort of compared Fraser with with Steven King from my club who also has been asked to do a little to much from a young age but is naturally a bigger bloke.
The fear is that he might be stuffed by his mid to late 20,s and might never reach the heights originally hoped he would achieve.
Could you ever see him being let go or traded.Hypothetically,If Fraser was to be traded what type/level of player would you expect to get for him.

 

[The Clokes]

Josh Fraser will be the next Collingwood captain... He will be going nowhere.

 

[labrooy]

Your Collingwood friend should check facts. Josh has not missed too many games with injury since starting his career. Lets not forget he has been an exception to MMs rule by playing in the seniors from game 1.

He has bulked up a bit but will never be the sort that can win a push and shove, he just isn't the right build. Thats ok though as MM will undoubtedly have more of a forward role planned for him. However despite his lack of bulk his ruckwork has come on in leaps and bounds since being forced into the rucking duties last year.

Fraser will be at Collingwood for many years to come. He may well even be captain as suggested. In an interview this week MM made reference to his agility and the fact that he is as good on the ground as in the air.

In short he has performed better than expectations to date and is getting better. Will be a leader at the club for many years.

 

[MarkT]

I reckon Josh is yet to find his niche in footy. he is a pretty unique package. he may one day develop into a quality ruckman but he isn't one yet and is a way off beimg one. I think he could play a key position but not at present because he isn't styrong enough. I hate seeing him in the ruck because he isn;t any good at it and he is getting beaten up and shortenning his career. I would like to see him played ads a permanent HFF and let his game develop there as a very difficult match up. He needs a tall matched up onh him but most talls can't compete on the ground. He can also run onthe ball in conjunction with a strong drop back ruckman because as a follower he can be very good. He is yet to peak as a footballer and IMO MM does him no favours adn has not done him any since playing him as tghe full time ruckman in 2000 at the age of barely 18.

 

[carn_the_nmfc]

I think that Collingwood got him too early. He was great when he played for Melton South in the U/18's competition.
Sadly he is burnt out and has lost his confidence. I hope that he gets his confidence back.

 

[hotpie]

Agree with Mark. ATM he is a second ruckman and a third tall option, but he needs to become more than that. CHF IMO is his long term future. His club needs to decide what they want to do with him. Playing Richards every week, rain hail or shine, is an absolute must, because Richards is a genuine ruckman and Josh's talents are wasted in the ruck.

 

[skylark18]

I have to agree with hotpie and mark.

Josh isnt really a ruckman , hes ok round the ground i think , but gets beaten time and time again in the centre bounces.

Years from now Josh will make CHF his own as well as the captaincy.

 

[shuveradda]

Only Time Will Tell What will happen with this bloke.

The Thing i'am Dissapointed about is that Collingwood got Josh Fraser at No1 and all top draft picks of recent times have done well almost straight away, i know you gotta give a big man time, but Riewoldt didn't need time, thats what ****es me off, we've had to wait for him to come up.

 

[SaInts SKill]

I thought Collingwood should have taken Haselby but none of my Collingwood freind's agreed with me.

I reckon I was right.

 

[Turbocat]

Fremantle lucked out . They had 2 and 4 but looking back now probably got the number 1 player at 4(Pavlich)

 

[Jabso]

Fraser will be a ruckman.
Right now I'd rather have Fraser in the ruck as he gathers 20 quality possesions almost every week. He floats forward cleverly as well. I don't think he is getting beaten up at all, his low injury rate is a indicator of this. He can get pushed off the ball at ruck and marking contests easily, but he will improve this with time.
In the future I would have Richards doing 40% ruckwork and Fraser doing 60% of it. I think a devoloping Morrison, C.Cloke and Davidson will be able to help out Tarrant and Rocca in the forward line and C.Cloke could do some of the ruckwork too as a crash and bash ruckman. If MM has other plans and thinks the forward line will be too stacked, Morrison or Davidson might be able to be developed as key backman or Tarrant can be played further up the field.

 

[JandS]

Very good player just not the superstar he was made out to be by the Coliingwood faithfull!! He also has a pea heart!

 

[moses]

Frases hasnt put on much bulk since joining collingwood. I think he is too soft

 

[MarkT]

Originally posted by SaInts SKill
I thought Collingwood should have taken Haselby but none of my Collingwood freind's agreed with me.

I reckon I was right.

In three years time that might show out to be a good option but at the time and at present we just don't need average paced midfielders. We have a truck load of them. Haselby may well be better than any of our midfielders outside of Buckley and Burns who will retitre in about 3 years but I have no issue with taking Fraser at all. Swapping pick 3 and missing Pavlich (or Haselby) is another matter.

 

[MarkT]

Anyone who doubts Fraser's heart should watch the 2003 finals series. Battled against bigger ruckmen all day and never gave an inch. Keating may have beaten him in the GF but he kept going all day and was Collingwood's best player. Port targeted him and tried to take him out but he went for every bounce with the same effort all day. I don't rate him as a ruckman but as a follower he is good and as a contesting tall he tries his heart out. He is just not big or schooled enough to compete against the strong talls. Some of that is due to his build, some to his age and some to the fact Collingwood have no ruck coach. MM clearly doesn't value ruckmen. I hope some quality clearance emanating from Richards taps can change his mind if 2 GF losses haven’t already.

By way of comparison, Gardiner took at least as long as Josh to be a quality ruckman. The only difference is that the older Gardiner has got there and Josh is yet to.

 

[JandS]

Mark please dont try and tell me that Fraser plays with heart. Its not that hard to try all day and be beaten by your opponent. Fraser along with the great Tarrant play scared. I have seen Tarrant jump out of Mark Mecuri's way. All good and well making two GF but u need your big name players to play as though they mean it. To many Collingwood players go missing (including Bucks) in big games and when the heat is on. It has been like this a long time just look over there history!

 

[the ranter]

Josh still has a way to go.....

Take all the ruckman in the competition.
Would he rate in the top 5 and thus be regarded as a 'quality ruckman'?
Obviously not.
Take all of those playing CHF?
Quality?
Nope.

Take all the forwards in the competition...would he make top 10?
Nope.

Josh is a developing player who good around the ground but is yet to hit the level of a 'quality player'.

What is a quality player?
Look at the 50 or 60 players who could or do play as mid-fielders..... The top 10 would be the "quality" players.
10 to 20 would be good, 20 to 30 average.

As there are not a lot of ruckmen in the competition you would look at the top 5 as being 'quality'. Next 5 good, next 10 average.

As yet, Josh has not pushed into the 'quality' bracket in any role on the field, when many proclaimed that he would.

I think Josh is going to be a great player for the club, but at the moment he would have to fit in the average to good category when rated against other players in the competition who play in similar positions/roles to him.

 

[MarkT]

Originally posted by JandS
Mark please dont try and tell me that Fraser plays with heart. Its not that hard to try all day and be beaten by your opponent. Fraser along with the great Tarrant play scared. I have seen Tarrant jump out of Mark Mecuri's way. All good and well making two GF but u need your big name players to play as though they mean it. To many Collingwood players go missing (including Bucks) in big games and when the heat is on. It has been like this a long time just look over there history!

Bucks and Fraser were our best 2 in the 2003 GF. Bucks won the Norm Smith in the 2002 GF. Goes missing? Buckley plays less poor games than any player I have ever seen - Carey included.

Fraser gets beaten in the ruck because he isn’t very good at it. Nothing to do with heart or commitment.

 

[JandS]

Also Josh Fraser cant kick the ball low and hard thus meaning he cant pass the footy. Always kicks the ball to a 50/50 contest. It wasnt hard for the GREAT BUCKS to win the Norm Smith he didnt hav an opponent all day! Not once did he look like he was trying to stop Brisbane. Just had his normal day skirting the packs without really putting his body on the line. This will not win u games. Bucks can hav 60 touches but unless he plays accountable footy he contibution to the pies wont be that great.:

 

[leonmagic]

MarkT, I really wouldn't take what this dud says seriously.

Under Team Supported he's written: "Collingwood/Richmond"...

**** off JandS, you're comments are useless here.

 

[labrooy]

Originally posted by JandS
Also Josh Fraser cant kick the ball low and hard thus meaning he cant pass the footy. Always kicks the ball to a 50/50 contest. It wasnt hard for the GREAT BUCKS to win the Norm Smith he didnt hav an opponent all day! Not once did he look like he was trying to stop Brisbane. Just had his normal day skirting the packs without really putting his body on the line. This will not win u games. Bucks can hav 60 touches but unless he plays accountable footy he contibution to the pies wont be that great.:

I agree. Anyone who is stupid enough to make a comment along this line is clearly unable to put together any rational or logical thought. He also knows **** all about football. **** off, ****er!

 

[JandS]

Leon u crazy little bugger. There are 2 people using the same name u crazy fool. Just because i dont agree with everything u say doesnt meen im wrong.

Listen fellas, i dont understand why u need to attack me with foul language Cant we just all get along!!!

Its peolple like u keeping families away with all your gutter mouth language. If you need to swear to express yourself you should just SHUT UP.

P.S The pies suck

 

[leonmagic]

Originally posted by JandS
Listen fellas, i dont understand why u need to attack me with foul language Cant we just all get along!!!

All you've done is put down our players, labelling Josh and J.Cloke as pea hearts.....you're just doing it for a reaction, then when you get it you whinge???

But for the record, you really should stop putting down OUR players in OUR thread when you don't even support OUR team.





AND **** OFF .

 

[JandS]

Leon my friend how do know i dont support the pies. Maybe im one of the few pies supporters that can watch the game with an objective view....

I really dont understand why u continue to swear. What would your mother say!!!!!!

 

[leonmagic]

Originally posted by JandS
Leon my friend how do know i dont support the pies.

hmm..........

The pies suck

I don't know where I came to that conclusion...


You are a pest, please get a life.