Coach Justin Longmuir

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Bicco said:
Bailey was OK tonight. One issue is that his best is what most people would call average. He kicked 2 tonight, good on him, but back tonight's performance up with a few more like that. Then he'll get some recognition. He averages 0.5 goals per game over his career, so statistically he won't score a goal for the next 3 weeks. If he kicks 6 goals in that time, he will be deserving of his spot and some praise.
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Statistically, last night wasn't an outlier. It was pretty consistent with his output bar the Bris game (he wasn't alone) and the game he was subbed off. Some people start a game weirdly obsessed with deathriding him and want him to fail. I can honestly say I've never seen it before from a club's own supporters to this level. It's bizarre and quite frankly pretty insane on a bloke we picked up in the Rookie Draft, who's probably in the 20-25 best on our list and plays the death seat (hhf).

For comparison, we were playing Sturt on the other hhf and people were losing their mind when he was dropped. Here are their stats side-by-side.

Banfleid - Sturt
1683420838269.png 1683421236415.png
 
He bristled at questions about Brodie and our clearance situation which was good to see. Corey does seem to be struggling in his role and Brodie is struggling to do what's required of him.
 
Dockeroo said:
Said it before the game even started last night as it was pretty predictable these kind of posts would appear.
Mature players beating up on some state leaguers and kids from hawthorn last night doesnt interest me, when it comes to long term solutions to our issues.
Guys in their mid 20s with several years experience like Hughes, Ryan, Banfield, JOM, Cox etc should 100% be dominating a game like last night.

Look at the last 5 min of the Gold Coast v Melbourne game for an idea of what intense footy looks like. Last night was a training drill by comparison, especially after half time.

If banners goes out in 2 weeks time at Optus and kicks 3 goals and has 17 or 18 touches on Zach Tuohy or Tom Stewart, I’ll be on here with my big boy pants to praise him the minute the final siren sounds.
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Glad you predicted he would play well. Not sure how that helps your case to drop him at all costs.
 

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I hadnt jumped off as hard as some and I'm not coming in here to sing praises after beating up a bottom 4 team at home but I'm legitimately unsure how to feel on him. Contrary to a lot of the opinion around here I think he actually has a good history of changing things up with players. Logue forward, Jackson midfield, Fyfe middle or forward depending on what we need and even Hughes to wing technically. He's not afraid to change things a bit and even changes players positions in game. He's definitely not a complete dud coach because there is no head coach that takes a young team like we had last year through to winning a final that's a complete dud.

My biggest concerns are:
  • His demeanour and speech which may legitimately be his biggest issue. It's fickle but there is something to be said about the head of footy department exuding confidence and strength. I thought he'd get better by now but I dont think it has. If nothing else, I think the group will really benefit from Serong being captain next year because both JL and Pearce being mild mannered people probably isnt ideal and could well be a reason behind the horrific starts for like the last 12 months.
  • Inability to develop a plan B. I think this is a squad inexperience thing but I'm not sure. When we can play how we want we look unstoppable, when we cant, we look horrific

I do think from things heard that there is a bit of merit behind Carr being a massive loss and Corey not able to fill his role properly, I'm not involved in the inner workings of a club but a midfield coach is going to be more tactically focused compared to Corey's historical development role which is about building individual players.
 
Snuffaluphagus said:
I hadnt jumped off as hard as some and I'm not coming in here to sing praises after beating up a bottom 4 team at home but I'm legitimately unsure how to feel on him. Contrary to a lot of the opinion around here I think he actually has a good history of changing things up with players. Logue forward, Jackson midfield, Fyfe middle or forward depending on what we need and even Hughes to wing technically. He's not afraid to change things a bit and even changes players positions in game. He's definitely not a complete dud coach because there is no head coach that takes a young team like we had last year through to winning a final that's a complete dud.

My biggest concerns are:
  • His demeanour and speech which may legitimately be his biggest issue. It's fickle but there is something to be said about the head of footy department exuding confidence and strength. I thought he'd get better by now but I dont think it has. If nothing else, I think the group will really benefit from Serong being captain next year because both JL and Pearce being mild mannered people probably isnt ideal and could well be a reason behind the horrific starts for like the last 12 months.
  • Inability to develop a plan B. I think this is a squad inexperience thing but I'm not sure. When we can play how we want we look unstoppable, when we cant, we look horrific

I do think from things heard that there is a bit of merit behind Carr being a massive loss and Corey not able to fill his role properly, I'm not involved in the inner workings of a club but a midfield coach is going to be more tactically focused compared to Corey's historical development role which is about building individual players.
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TBF, I am not sure most teams have plan B - you wouldn't work on a plan B until you can execute plan A with your eyes closed.

Think Cats are the only ones I can remember that can actually change gamestyle to suit, and they are historically old.
 
For all his misgivings there are a couple of things from a human perspective that I will credit to JL
I won’t comment on tactics and game plan because I have no clue on these matters at an AFL level.

1.He seems systematic and very organised. Important for discipline and structure
2. As a former Docker and West Oz he would be absolutely burning with the desire of winning their first flag . Not ego driven and not there for the pay check.
3. A coach is almost a father and mentor , Longmuir seems to be a very respectful, thoughtful character who rewards hard work. Good traits to impose on impressionable young men
 
Madas said:
For all his misgivings there are a couple of things from a human perspective that I will credit to JL
I won’t comment on tactics and game plan because I have no clue on these matters at an AFL level.

1.He seems systematic and very organised. Important for discipline and structure
2. As a former Docker and West Oz he would be absolutely burning with the desire of winning their first flag . Not ego driven and not there for the pay check.
3. A coach is almost a father and mentor , Longmuir seems to be a very respectful, thoughtful character who rewards hard work. Good traits to impose on impressionable young men
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Have no clue? That’s a vital ingredient on here!😜😜😜
 
We are 3 wins and 5 losses.

The next 3 games coming up are brutal.

Round 9: swans at SCG

Round 10: Geelong at home

Round 11: demons at MCG.

Round 12: bye



Yep brutal.

Round 13 : Richmond at home. Most likely win coming.

Round 14 giants away.

Round 15 Essendon at home
 
WilloTree said:
Oh I totally get it. He's not going to win a Norm Smith any time soon.

Just think it would be nice if some of the posters who delight in constantly bashing him put their big boy pants on and get in here and yell as loudly when he goes well.

It's a bit like having a rental infestation of cockroaches. They're happy to sit in the shadows, spread their filth and make a mess, but turn on a light once in a while and they scurry away like cowards.
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Seeing I have been critical of Bailey I guess I may be one of the ones this was directed at. I can clear up a couple of things to help unbunch your undies hopefully.

Firstly, I don't delight in constantly bashing him. He wears the right jumper so as I've said before, I'd love for him to put together a string of games that make me look dumb. Instead he keeps making my case for me, until this single game and even that is hard to show as a bastion of elite performance. Others who've been tossed much quickly than him have had similar or better games and not been around long after.

I don't believe I have bashed him, I've just questioned the credibility of his selection and added supporting info to my position. I've been critical of the coach for picking him for sure but I've stayed away from the personal attacks like the stuff you've thrown up and concentrated more on the facts as I see them. I haven't attacked the man, just his performances and his selection. I've even said it's not his fault and it is the coaches who pick him that bring the unwarranted scorn on him which makes it largely unfair on him.

I was coming here say I think JL2 should once again (as I did last week) be given praise for the gameplan change that was effective on the weekend. I thought it was good the week before too and acknowledged and enjoyed that.

I was also going to point out BB did some good things too. His goals weren't at the top of that list. He pulled off an excellent kick that opened up the play and led to a goal and gave a great handball that had the same result. Both good pieces of play.

Having said that, if you think his performance on the weekend overshadows the 5 weeks this year and a longer list last year of clearly very poor performances against oppositions that I believe we should be measuring everyone against then I'd suggest you're more emotively involved than having a reasoned look at it. I will certainly cede that if BB performed like this EVERY week I'd think keeping him in would be worth it. I'd even say 1 out of 3 would be close to justification. But this is much more like a 1 in 8 performance for him which is the source of the queries on him. Added to that he seems to be one of very few on the list who gets that many chances before having to perform to that level. I'd further argue if we can remember vividly 2 bits of play where he was good, he's clearly not performing to that level anywhere near often enough.

Once again re the coach on the weekend, the use of the young developing forward in Treacy should be condemned, in my opinion. To take Treacy off was a poor call. However, this week I would have left Banfield out there too, unlike last week. This week it was Schultz I thought who should have come off for Fyfe to keep Treacy out there and develop his connection with Amiss etc. Not only was Schultz not going that great (again), he was also sore. Unlike last week, the call wasn't as egregious but it does point to the same ongoing problem of JL2 not developing our young forwards well and chipping at their confidence rather than assisting it.

Back to BB though, your post is the sort of emotive garbage that offers little in terms of decent discussion. I note that when he wasn't performing well and I asked for those who thought he should be picked to offer some reasoning to help me understand it that you were very quiet, as was every other BB acolyte as I'm still waiting for anything other than the same old stuff which has been shown to be wrong. I'd still love to see it. All I've ever heard is "he's not our worst" or "he tries his guts out" or "he's a great team man" or "its his defensive pressure". All of which are either irrelevant or wrong.

If having an OK game against a very poor team is your proof he should be playing then I'll respectfully disagree and suggest that someone playing AFL in a team with finals aspirations should perform well against good opposition regularly, not very irregularly against rubbish teams.
 
Wobbly Punt said:
Seeing I have been critical of Bailey I guess I may be one of the ones this was directed at. I can clear up a couple of things to help unbunch your undies hopefully.

Firstly, I don't delight in constantly bashing him. He wears the right jumper so as I've said before, I'd love for him to put together a string of games that make me look dumb. Instead he keeps making my case for me, until this single game and even that is hard to show as a bastion of elite performance. Others who've been tossed much quickly than him have had similar or better games and not been around long after.

I don't believe I have bashed him, I've just questioned the credibility of his selection and added supporting info to my position. I've been critical of the coach for picking him for sure but I've stayed away from the personal attacks like the stuff you've thrown up and concentrated more on the facts as I see them. I haven't attacked the man, just his performances and his selection. I've even said it's not his fault and it is the coaches who pick him that bring the unwarranted scorn on him which makes it largely unfair on him.

I was coming here say I think JL2 should once again (as I did last week) be given praise for the gameplan change that was effective on the weekend. I thought it was good the week before too and acknowledged and enjoyed that.

I was also going to point out BB did some good things too. His goals weren't at the top of that list. He pulled off an excellent kick that opened up the play and led to a goal and gave a great handball that had the same result. Both good pieces of play.

Having said that, if you think his performance on the weekend overshadows the 5 weeks this year and a longer list last year of clearly very poor performances against oppositions that I believe we should be measuring everyone against then I'd suggest you're more emotively involved than having a reasoned look at it. I will certainly cede that if BB performed like this EVERY week I'd think keeping him in would be worth it. I'd even say 1 out of 3 would be close to justification. But this is much more like a 1 in 8 performance for him which is the source of the queries on him. Added to that he seems to be one of very few on the list who gets that many chances before having to perform to that level. I'd further argue if we can remember vividly 2 bits of play where he was good, he's clearly not performing to that level anywhere near often enough.

Once again re the coach on the weekend, the use of the young developing forward in Treacy should be condemned, in my opinion. To take Treacy off was a poor call. However, this week I would have left Banfield out there too, unlike last week. This week it was Schultz I thought who should have come off for Fyfe to keep Treacy out there and develop his connection with Amiss etc. Not only was Schultz not going that great (again), he was also sore. Unlike last week, the call wasn't as egregious but it does point to the same ongoing problem of JL2 not developing our young forwards well and chipping at their confidence rather than assisting it.

Back to BB though, your post is the sort of emotive garbage that offers little in terms of decent discussion. I note that when he wasn't performing well and I asked for those who thought he should be picked to offer some reasoning to help me understand it that you were very quiet, as was every other BB acolyte as I'm still waiting for anything other than the same old stuff which has been shown to be wrong. I'd still love to see it. All I've ever heard is "he's not our worst" or "he tries his guts out" or "he's a great team man" or "its his defensive pressure". All of which are either irrelevant or wrong.

If having an OK game against a very poor team is your proof he should be playing then I'll respectfully disagree and suggest that someone playing AFL in a team with finals aspirations should perform well against good opposition regularly, not very irregularly against rubbish teams.
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I think you've misunderstood. Here are his stats for this year minus the Saints game he was subbed off.

1683540263138.png

He's been very consistent, which is probably why he has kept his spot. As I said before, not Norm Smith stuff, but far from the vitriol he cops.

I can understand his selection. You can't, but that's probably nothing to do with his performance as evinced by your sentence "a longer list last year of clearly very poor performance". You are equating his selection with your wishy-washy opinion on his games from 2022. Freo aren't.

Hope this clarifies.
 
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WilloTree said:
Switkowski - Banfield
View attachment 1682550View attachment 1682555
Is he really going that bad?

Who could we bring in that would do the same or better?
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I like your work. However, if you are going to compare just based on numbers only you are missing some of the main concerns with Banfield. His slow decision making at times and slow loopy kicking. Those things don't happen all the time but they are a problem in the forward half where we need quick, smooth movement.

I would take 11 Switta disposals per game over 20 from banfield. I would guess opponents would prefer banfield has it 20 times as well. But, I appreciate you trying to builda case.

The other thing I would say, is that in a season that seems lost (we would need to win 4 of the next 6 to even think about 8th), should we be prioritising younger players who will be part of long term success?

There are good arguments on both sides of that. He plays = we are so young, do we want to be younger? WAFL = the forward line needs more skilled players and to develop players in his position and two others. If we waste the opp to develop now will it cost us in two seasons.

Can you see any weight to that line of thinking?
 
poshman said:
I like your work. However, if you are going to compare just based on numbers only you are missing some of the main concerns with Banfield. His slow decision making at times and slow loopy kicking. Those things don't happen all the time but they are a problem in the forward half where we need quick, smooth movement.

I would take 11 Switta disposals per game over 20 from banfield. I would guess opponents would prefer banfield has it 20 times as well. But, I appreciate you trying to builda case.

The other thing I would say, is that in a season that seems lost (we would need to win 4 of the next 6 to even think about 8th), should we be prioritising younger players who will be part of long term success?

There are good arguments on both sides of that. He plays = we are so young, do we want to be younger? WAFL = the forward line needs more skilled players and to develop players in his position and two others. If we waste the opp to develop now will it cost us in two seasons.

Can you see any weight to that line of thinking?
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I agree. Stats never tell a full story. I use it to illustrate that Switkowsi isn't someone fans would consider dropping, yet his numbers are similar. It further illustrates the disproportionate vitriol towards Banfield.

To your other point, Banfield just turned 25. He could absolutely be part of our long-term plans at that age, if he's good enough and if others we draft in the future don't go past him. For now though, the list is the list.

Who are these players we should be bringing in that people keep referring to? Corbett is 27, Sturt has been tried, Henry's a wing now (and most likely a bust) and Emmett's a mature-age state league player. The only option I can see is if Fyfe comes in as a forward Banfield could end up at Peel - but that doesn't really help long term.

I would totally agree with the 'dump Banfield' default setting if it was at all grounded in reality, but it's not. There isn't anyone better who can play hs role. It really is that simple.

We have to remember - Banfield isn't Sheezel. He's a Rookie List pick-up who will probably always be our 22-25th player. He has worked his butt off to make an AFL career for himself. Personally, I'd take 10 Banfields if I could. Imagine how quickly our culture would change.
 
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Joao said:
I'm not a fan of this. I don't mind Ras spending time in the forwardline (he's big and will probably end up a good contested mark for size), but I would never play him as a pure forward. I don't think he is quick enough to pressure and I think he is better playing as much as possible in the midfield, wherever that is.
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Garry Ablett Jr, Bartel, and Callum Mills were all started by Geelong and Sydney as forwards before moving into the midfield in the second/third season. Those clubs know how to develop and protect their young mid stars. Not sure why we shouldn't do the same with Ras.
 
Snuffaluphagus said:
I hadnt jumped off as hard as some and I'm not coming in here to sing praises after beating up a bottom 4 team at home but I'm legitimately unsure how to feel on him. Contrary to a lot of the opinion around here I think he actually has a good history of changing things up with players. Logue forward, Jackson midfield, Fyfe middle or forward depending on what we need and even Hughes to wing technically. He's not afraid to change things a bit and even changes players positions in game. He's definitely not a complete dud coach because there is no head coach that takes a young team like we had last year through to winning a final that's a complete dud.

My biggest concerns are:
  • His demeanour and speech which may legitimately be his biggest issue. It's fickle but there is something to be said about the head of footy department exuding confidence and strength. I thought he'd get better by now but I dont think it has. If nothing else, I think the group will really benefit from Serong being captain next year because both JL and Pearce being mild mannered people probably isnt ideal and could well be a reason behind the horrific starts for like the last 12 months.
  • Inability to develop a plan B. I think this is a squad inexperience thing but I'm not sure. When we can play how we want we look unstoppable, when we cant, we look horrific

I do think from things heard that there is a bit of merit behind Carr being a massive loss and Corey not able to fill his role properly, I'm not involved in the inner workings of a club but a midfield coach is going to be more tactically focused compared to Corey's historical development role which is about building individual players.
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I think the positive points you raised re changing things up. They are good points about JL2 and as a critic of his they do offer some good examples of reasons to be positive about him.

My biggest issues with have been his rigidity and his selection screwups (as I saw them and as history is bearing out). Your points are good ones but I'd just question whether that is actual flexibility or simply throwing the magnets around to see if it works better with different guys doing the same things other guys were doing.

FWIW I also agree he's not a complete dud coach but therein lies my biggest fear and the worst case scenario in my mind which is that as a coach he's OK or just below that and we waste arguably the best list we've ever had.

I'd also suggest it's possible for him to be a bad coach and take a young list to the finals if his initial plans worked well but he had no answer for what came at him when we became a threat. He could be a bad coach who had a good initial plan but not the nous to improve on it.

Best case scenario it's neither of these and he's starting to pull together an approach that will deal with the troubles other coaches have thrown at his gameplan which successful and off we go. That's my hope and why I was never going to and would never support him going without seeing the year out.

If the development in the plan happens then the biggest problem he'll have is his selection dramas and that is something more easily worked out. Especially if it costs us Treacy and Sturt come years end and we replace them with young guys he treats better as a result of the lessons learned with them.
 
Big Animal said:
Garry Ablett Jr, Bartel, and Callum Mills were all started by Geelong and Sydney as forwards before moving into the midfield in the second/third season. Those clubs know how to develop and protect their young mid stars. Not sure why we shouldn't do the same with Ras.
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First off, Mills played mostly half back before being a midfielder.

Secondly, there is nothing wrong with some players playing in the forwardline (for example, Serong probably would have been good there), but you can't play someone who isn't fast in a pressure role up forward. They just can't close space.

If we had a role that suited Ras' attributes, then I'd be fine with it, but we don't.
 
I kind of wish we’d given Fyfe longer as a forward earlier in his career if only to establish that craft and lock down his goal kicking. Think a season or two more playing forward would have cured the yips
 
If Bigfooty was the Freo board JL would be sacked by now.

REASON?
He played Bailey Banfield too much.
 
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