Justin Reeves resigns

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KermitJagger said:
I just don't see how they're going to mend things with everyone involved. The idea of it seems so detached from the reality of where the people involved are at. You get Clarko to come to the reunions, and irrespective of what is proven or not proven, how it all shakes out with the investigation or in court, it sounds like we'll have players who will not attend because of that.
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Clarko's love is with the club, the players, the fans...........not the CEO and President.

It will just take some time.
 

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ahhhhhh said:
I think Clarko is in love with himself and his achievements. I don’t think he’ll ever reconcile with the club.
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Well I really hope you are wrong.

Jeff and Reeves are gone and in ten years time the whole club will look and feel very different than it is today.

Hopefully it can get back to being about each of the premiership teams and nothing else.
 
ahhhhhh said:
I think Clarko is in love with himself and his achievements. I don’t think he’ll ever reconcile with the club.
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There’s a fair bit of truth here.

He was (understandably) wrapped up in his own self importance as a 4 time premiership coach, and the way the “handover” was bungled left him with a sour taste.

However, as much as his 2005 - 2015 was fantastic, he was also chiefly responsible for 2016 - 2021, which was ordinary.

If he doesn’t want to smoke the peace pipe, we shouldn’t be stressed or upset about that.
 
HedgeFund said:
There’s a fair bit of truth here.

He was (understandably) wrapped up in his own self importance as a 4 time premiership coach, and the way the “handover” was bungled left him with a sour taste.

However, as much as his 2005 - 2015 was fantastic, he was also chiefly responsible for 2016 - 2021, which was ordinary.

If he doesn’t want to smoke the peace pipe, we shouldn’t be stressed or upset about that.
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He is on the medicinal marijuana isn't he?

(early Clarko, I'll take less to bring in Rath... late Clarko, I have no assistants, why don't they like getting paid nothing)
 
Bedi said:
The disrespect shown in here to one of Hawthorns greatest coaches of all time is mind boggling. Bunch of ingrates
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No, it’s just an objective critique of a flawed individual who made a lot of mistakes in his final years at our club. No amount of flags makes you immune from criticism.
 
Ned Ryerson said:
No, it’s just an objective critique of a flawed individual who made a lot of mistakes in his final years at our club. No amount of flags makes you immune from criticism.
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Hale, Lake, Burgoyne, Dew etc – all massively risky draftees that paid off. Patton, Vickery, Scully, O'Meara etc, did not. You win some, you lose some.
But basically what Clarko was trying to do is exactly what delivered Geelong a premiership last year, so it was a sound strategy. Just didn't quite pay off and not helped by sudden loss of Rough and Cyril. So I just reckon people are harsh on Clarko – a legend of the club – given everything he did for us.
 
Bedi said:
Hale, Lake, Burgoyne, Dew etc – all massively risky draftees that paid off. Patton, Vickery, Scully, O'Meara etc, did not. You win some, you lose some.
But basically what Clarko was trying to do is exactly what delivered Geelong a premiership last year, so it was a sound strategy. Just didn't quite pay off and not helped by sudden loss of Rough and Cyril. So I just reckon people are harsh on Clarko – a legend of the club – given everything he did for us.
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I wasn't talking solely about list management - but clearly you don't want to have an open mind on this so I am not going to bang my head against a wall.
 
Bedi said:
The disrespect shown in here to one of Hawthorns greatest coaches of all time is mind boggling. Bunch of ingrates
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That doesn't make him immune from criticism. He's not a saint ffs. Let's recap just some of the proven history of Clarko outside of this:
  • King hit an opponent in an exhibition match meant to advertise the game overseas
  • Abused a 19 year old umpire in a local footy league when acting as a runner for his sons match
  • Repeatedly punched holes in and damaged coaches boxes
  • Extremely strangely told a female journalist "your time will come" when defending Tarryn Thomas against (get this) allegations of acting abusive against women
Great coach for a period of time, very flawed person. He is not exempt from criticism and it's not ungrateful to do so.

If you want to create a Kevin Sheedy style cult of personality around the bloke, fine, but it's not the type of HFC supporter I am.
 

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KermitJagger said:
Extremely strangely told a female journalist "your time will come" when defending Tarryn Thomas against (get this) allegations of acting abusive against women
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This really irked me. And then he played the 'oh maybe I worded it badly' card - no mate, you were trying to intimidate a woman who was doing her job. Calling a journo a utensil head is kinda funny - being needlessly aggressive to a woman asking about a player's alleged threats towards women - not so much. The fact that Thomas is allowed back in their AFL program when he still hasn't been cleared of some pretty heinous charges, and only weeks after that moronic car stunt he pulled, shows the poor judgement Clarko is becoming more and more guilty of these days.

The weird behaviour towards players too shows a slight controlling streak also - tracking down Buddy when he was on holiday, buying a dog for someone without their input. These aren't warm and cuddly 'oh he just cares!' things they are genuinely not normal behaviour and he absolutely needs to work on it.
 
Ned Ryerson said:
This really irked me. And then he played the 'oh maybe I worded it badly' card - no mate, you were trying to intimidate a woman who was doing her job. Calling a journo a utensil head is kinda funny - being needlessly aggressive to a woman asking about a player's alleged threats towards women - not so much. The fact that Thomas is allowed back in their AFL program when he still hasn't been cleared of some pretty heinous charges, and only weeks after that moronic car stunt he pulled, shows the poor judgement Clarko is becoming more and more guilty of these days.

The weird behaviour towards players too shows a slight controlling streak also - tracking down Buddy when he was on holiday, buying a dog for someone without their input. These aren't warm and cuddly 'oh he just cares!' things they are genuinely not normal behaviour and he absolutely needs to work on it.
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It's only when you leave the cult that you start to realise it ain't all that.

I have all the respect for what Clarko did for us in the four premierships. But he started to drink his own bathwater in the latter years. His issue is that he isn't really suited to media so its coaching or nothing for him. Needed at least 2, if not more, years away from the game to refresh not only himself but also how he approaches a new generation.
 
Yardie said:
It's only when you leave the cult that you start to realise it ain't all that.

I have all the respect for what Clarko did for us in the four premierships. But he started to drink his own bathwater in the latter years. His issue is that he isn't really suited to media so its coaching or nothing for him. Needed at least 2, if not more, years away from the game to refresh not only himself but also how he approaches a new generation.
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This is why revering another human you don't know personally is dangerous ground. Humans are capable of amazing things and also just downright awful things - and sometimes both all at once. Pretending that someone is completely incapable of being a bit reprehensible at times despite otherwise good accomplishments is just daft.

It's a bit like when my parents split and relatives and friends of the family would say to me 'I can't believe your mum is doing this, your dad is a good guy' etc - because that's all they saw and that's all they knew. Those on the inside knew differently. Nobody wants their heroes to be tainted - but, sadly, that's life.
 
KermitJagger said:
That doesn't make him immune from criticism. He's not a saint ffs. Let's recap just some of the proven history of Clarko outside of this:
  • King hit an opponent in an exhibition match meant to advertise the game overseas
  • Abused a 19 year old umpire in a local footy league when acting as a runner for his sons match
  • Repeatedly punched holes in and damaged coaches boxes
  • Extremely strangely told a female journalist "your time will come" when defending Tarryn Thomas against (get this) allegations of acting abusive against women
Great coach for a period of time, very flawed person. He is not exempt from criticism and it's not ungrateful to do so.

If you want to create a Kevin Sheedy style cult of personality around the bloke, fine, but it's not the type of HFC supporter I am.
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Don't forget assaulting a fan, it's a seriously long wrap sheet.

This strange individual worshiping is so strange to me it's a childlike mentality where you put famous people on this pedestal, little wonder why actors at award ceremonies act holy than thou.
 
Ned Ryerson said:
This is why revering another human you don't know personally is dangerous ground. Humans are capable of amazing things and also just downright awful things - and sometimes both all at once. Pretending that someone is completely incapable of being a bit reprehensible at times despite otherwise good accomplishments is just daft.

It's a bit like when my parents split and relatives and friends of the family would say to me 'I can't believe your mum is doing this, your dad is a good guy' etc - because that's all they saw and that's all they knew. Those on the inside knew differently. Nobody wants their heroes to be tainted - but, sadly, that's life.
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Yeah there are genuinely great people who do s**t things and terrible people that do good things. Humans are very nuanced and ultimately selfish in most ways. It makes for a big ego/identity shock when people find out their idols have done some bad s**t. And the cognitive dissonance can either help the person grow or stunt them.

For me it was finding out that Jesse Lacey was horrible towards women. Brand New was the band that really got me into music and The Devil and God always emotionally resonated. And for ages I didn't believe that it could be true and all other sorts of mental gymnastics. But ultimately I accepted it and it helped me separate the art from the artwork which in turn has really helped my identity as a musician.

But importantly it helped me objectively understand my own biases and become better at evaluating things, which in turn hopefully helps me treat others better.
 
ahhhhhh said:
I think Clarko is in love with himself and his achievements. I don’t think he’ll ever reconcile with the club.
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I think that's a long way from the truth
 
There is a fine line between genius and insanity. Not saying Clarkson is either but in my experience there is a very fine line between success and not failure but doing well without the great success. We need to remember that after the 2008 premiership we had the best team in the competition (stacked with talent (Franklin, Rough, Mitchell, Hodge etc.) yet struggled because we could not acquire or develop a key position defender. Then the Bulldogs gifted us Brian Lake. Also, the trading for players in the latter part of Clarkson's career was a horror show. People can say that it is hit and miss and look back at the Dews and Burgoynes but the scenario was very different in terms of the personnel on the list and where the team was at after significant success. Trying to replicate something just because it has worked in the past (and selling the farm to do it) isn't particularly smart.

And as people have noted, Clarkson is a flawed individual. There is no question of that.
 
KermitJagger said:
That doesn't make him immune from criticism. He's not a saint ffs. Let's recap just some of the proven history of Clarko outside of this:
  • King hit an opponent in an exhibition match meant to advertise the game overseas
  • Abused a 19 year old umpire in a local footy league when acting as a runner for his sons match
  • Repeatedly punched holes in and damaged coaches boxes
  • Extremely strangely told a female journalist "your time will come" when defending Tarryn Thomas against (get this) allegations of acting abusive against women
Great coach for a period of time, very flawed person. He is not exempt from criticism and it's not ungrateful to do so.

If you want to create a Kevin Sheedy style cult of personality around the bloke, fine, but it's not the type of HFC supporter I am.
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Ok let's s**t all over Leigh Matthew's legacy while we're at it. He was no saint, but he's a Hawthorn legend, so reckon Clarko deserves more respect. But anyway, said my piece.
 
Bedi said:
Ok let's s**t all over Leigh Matthew's legacy while we're at it. He was no saint, but he's a Hawthorn legend, so reckon Clarko deserves more respect. But anyway, said my piece.
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No one is shitting over his legacy. Clarko's legacy is intact, it's a rare supporter or football fan that would say anything about the success he found in his career. It does not make him exempt from criticism, nor does the success give him some sort of "pass" for the things he does wrong.

BTW Leigh Matthews himself says he is regretful of the way that he played football, how he was as a player and how it affected his life. By your reckoning, Matthews is shitting over his own legacy here.

 
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KermitJagger said:
That doesn't make him immune from criticism. He's not a saint ffs. Let's recap just some of the proven history of Clarko outside of this:
  • King hit an opponent in an exhibition match meant to advertise the game overseas
  • Abused a 19 year old umpire in a local footy league when acting as a runner for his sons match
  • Repeatedly punched holes in and damaged coaches boxes
  • Extremely strangely told a female journalist "your time will come" when defending Tarryn Thomas against (get this) allegations of acting abusive against women
Great coach for a period of time, very flawed person. He is not exempt from criticism and it's not ungrateful to do so.

If you want to create a Kevin Sheedy style cult of personality around the bloke, fine, but it's not the type of HFC supporter I am.
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The disgraceful unprovoked cowardly king hit on Ian Aitken in an exhibition game in London always made me wary of AC. The incident should have resulted in a suspension from the next season.
Another incident which influenced my opinion on AC’s character was the way he spoke to the young BHH players when he called them along with BHH staff into the meeting room before a Hawthorn intra club practice match in 2010. I was disappointed by the intimidating way he addressed the players with the unnecessary overuse of expletives. A number of players were left bemused and asked me what was he on about. Sadly the address took something away from their excitement of playing in the practice game.
 
theiaofseed said:
Don't forget assaulting a fan, it's a seriously long wrap sheet.

This strange individual worshiping is so strange to me it's a childlike mentality where you put famous people on this pedestal, little wonder why actors at award ceremonies act holy than thou.
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It's called a parasocial relationship.
My partner is learning about it in her Masters. The example they use is a teenager forming one with a social media star, and a grown man forming one with his favourite sportsperson.

It can be highly exploitative.
 
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