Draft Watcher Knightmare's 2012 Mock Draft

[MightySaints]

Always a great read Knightmare, would love to know where you get your in-depth knowledge from. One surprise for me is Nick Rodda down low. Has the potential to be a very good defender and in my opinion will go between 30 and 60. Also really like Hrovat and Heavyside, would be great to see the Saints get one of them.

 

[blueiris]

I've always been a big Wingard man and was on his bandwagon a good year and a half before his draft year and assuming he can stay healthy and continue his development would be my choice of the two. Ball use is exceptional and is a class above Green.[/quote]
I must be missing something what I have seen of wingard hasn't impressed me but green in the games that he has played has been very impressive

 

[Knightmare]

Always a great read Knightmare, would love to know where you get your in-depth knowledge from. One surprise for me is Nick Rodda down low. Has the potential to be a very good defender and in my opinion will go between 30 and 60. Also really like Hrovat and Heavyside, would be great to see the Saints get one of them.

With KPPs there are only so many that go early on draft and Rodda looks like more of a rookie selection in my view with the likes of Plowman, Clurey and Tanner Smith the better key defenders. After that top 40 area of the draft typically the other KPPs either slip through the draft or go late/rookie.

Would personally after those higher level key defenders have Clay Cameron, Howson and probably even Corr down as being slightly ahead of Rodda. Rodda is strongly built but looks really exposed defensively against both the more agile key forwards but also the taller key forwards in the air so not entirely certain where he fits. But it only takes one fan of a guy to get drafted.

Hrovat and Heavyside both very good players and would mid draft both be really nice options.

I must be missing something what I have seen of wingard hasn't impressed me but green in the games that he has played has been very impressive

Both players are still young and have plenty of time. You only have to look at Chris25's rating having Wingard at no.9 overall to see how highly Wingard is rated by recruiters.

Wingard probably hasn't played as well as I expected but there is plenty of improvement to come and once his endurance improves could be a really special player if he puts the work into his game.

 

[saintsrfreak]

Hey Knightmare, I'm interested as to why you have Stringer sliding so far
Is it solely because of his broken leg?

 

[Zgope1]

Knightmare, many highly rated KPPs in the past have been considered KPFs (Schoenmakers and Henderson) and gone back, and others have been considered KPDS (Hurley and to a degree Roughead) and have become good forwards. I'd like to know what you think of Lachie Plowmans versitility? Could he go forward? if so, would that be a better option than taking a Shaw or Jaksch?

 

[Knightmare]

Hey Knightmare, I'm interested as to why you have Stringer sliding so far
Is it solely because of his broken leg?

Stringer probably hasn't produced to the level expected - which isn't surprising as he hasn't had a preseason and with so much time off the track you can't really expect anything to big of him right away. Having seen how dominant he was in the u16s he just doesn't seem to have that same athleticism this year he once had and doesn't seem to be dominating games in the same way and without the form some others probably go ahead of him.

I'm still very optimistic that Stringer can make it back to his best but I suggest he will need a full preseason and a bit before we see him back to his best.

Knightmare, many highly rated KPPs in the past have been considered KPFs (Schoenmakers and Henderson) and gone back, and others have been considered KPDS (Hurley and to a degree Roughead) and have become good forwards. I'd like to know what you think of Lachie Plowmans versitility? Could he go forward? if so, would that be a better option than taking a Shaw or Jaksch?

Good question.

I think Plowman probably could go forward - I haven't seen him play as a forward but I'm sure at stages throughout his junior career has spent time forward. With his style of play he feels better suited to playing as a rebounding key defender so as a key forward would probably back Shaw/Jaksch first.

 

[Damo80]

KM, noticed your mock is continually evolving, and a couple of points of note - firstly, Tom Lee keeps shuffling up the order. Now a legitimate first round prospect, you think?

And just another one that caught my eye is you had Ashley Hansen going to the Pies late... I'm assuming it's Hansen of former WCE fame? Is that based on some sort of inside info/hunch, or just a quirky, left field, "throw it out there" type selection?

 

[Knightmare]

KM, noticed your mock is continually evolving, and a couple of points of note - firstly, Tom Lee keeps shuffling up the order. Now a legitimate first round prospect, you think?

And just another one that caught my eye is you had Ashley Hansen going to the Pies late... I'm assuming it's Hansen of former WCE fame? Is that based on some sort of inside info/hunch, or just a quirky, left field, "throw it out there" type selection?

It will only continue to change and with the ladder contining to change there will be plenty of movement to come yet and plenty of new names to come into my draft as I continue to expand it into a rookie draft.

Lee is certainly closing in on a first round position and would probably consider him as more of a situational late 1st rounder - 2nd rounder at this stage but there is still plenty of football to be played. If Cloke leaves Collingwood then I suggest Collingwood will look into Lee as an immediate replacement.

If there have been rumours about Ashley Hansen making it back into the AFL then I certainly haven't heard any, nor any connection to Collingwood but the guy is in career best form and over the past three seasons and has really evelated his game. He is averaging close to 6 goals a game and close to 10 marks a game. While he was a well below average key forward in his first stint in the AFL he looks a different and much improved player and as a key forward is the most immediate guy you'll find not on an AFL list. Hansen is 30 now so he is not a long term investment but certainly could be a rookie option for a club looking for a guy you can get solid production out of for two years.
Hansen really seems to be one of those forgotten players who people will put a line through as soon as they see his name, but I would strongly recommend clubs looking for a key forward who can produce for two or so years look into Hansen as that immediate option as a rookie selection - he looks a different player to that guy I saw struggling to kick a goal a game for West Coast some years ago.

 

[Fatrollo]

Knightmare, I'm mainly curious about two aspects of just a couple of players.

First off in regards to Joe Daniher, when compared to the most damaging forward playing in Lance Franklin, how damaging a player can you see Daniher becoming? Or are they just too different to be able to compare in this way?

And secondly regarding Sam Colquhoun, do you see him more as a rebounding defender who is able to garner his own contested ball, or is he similar to someone like (using a player from my own team as that is much easier) Matthew Suckling who essentially has to be fed the ball as he lacks a strong ball-winning component to his game?

 

[Lach72]

Hansen's body is stuffed. He'll never play AFL again

 

[Knightmare]

Knightmare, I'm mainly curious about two aspects of just a couple of players.

First off in regards to Joe Daniher, when compared to the most damaging forward playing in Lance Franklin, how damaging a player can you see Daniher becoming? Or are they just too different to be able to compare in this way?

And secondly regarding Sam Colquhoun, do you see him more as a rebounding defender who is able to garner his own contested ball, or is he similar to someone like (using a player from my own team as that is much easier) Matthew Suckling who essentially has to be fed the ball as he lacks a strong ball-winning component to his game?

Franklin is just a freak and I'm not expecting him to become Franklin good but if all goes well Daniher looks a top 3, possible top 2 league key forward if he develops as expected. Daniher is the stronger contested mark and is probably more comparible to a Kurt Tippett or Paul Salmon with what he does as a forward at his height.

Colquhoun at this stage is not the strongest contested ball winner and could be similar to a Suckling in that he is a more offensive styled back flanker without a great defensive side to his game. He doesn't have the same penetration on his kick as Suckling (few do) but he sets up play really well finding his the best targets and getting it to where they want it to set up meaningful forward movements out of the back half.

 

[Cleric]

I've always been a big Wingard man and was on his bandwagon a good year and a half before his draft year and assuming he can stay healthy and continue his development would be my choice of the two. Ball use is exceptional and is a class above Green.

Wingard is playing in the worst team in the land, poor coaching, poor development, poor karma etc. I dont blame him.

 

[loki04]

Stringer probably hasn't produced to the level expected - which isn't surprising as he hasn't had a preseason and with so much time off the track you can't really expect anything to big of him right away. Having seen how dominant he was in the u16s he just doesn't seem to have that same athleticism this year he once had and doesn't seem to be dominating games in the same way and without the form some others probably go ahead of him.

I'm still very optimistic that Stringer can make it back to his best but I suggest he will need a full preseason and a bit before we see him back to his best.

If he slides I hope it is all the way to us because I bet my bottom dollar he ends up one of the best from the draft, I wonder if we could get a top 10 pick from a trade plus upgrade of our own and would this get him or do you think clubs will pull the trigger earlier.

 

[blueiris]

Wingard is playing in the worst team in the land, poor coaching, poor development, poor karma etc. I dont blame him.

i dont blame him either i just rate green higher green has had more output then wingard and was taken 19 picks below him

 

[Wargreymon90]

i dont blame him either i just rate green higher green has had more output then wingard and was taken 19 picks below him

Don't understand that. Wingard dominated under 18s and played well in the Sturt league team.

Greene has a more afl ready body whereas wingard is still quite raw. Wingards talent is still way ahead of greenes however

 

[Toadvine]

Don't understand that. Wingard dominated under 18s and played well in the Sturt league team.

Greene has a more afl ready body whereas wingard is still quite raw. Wingards talent is still way ahead of greenes however

You've got to be joking. Describing Toby's body as "AFL ready" is a long bow to draw. Greene's high AFL output has come from his elite running ability, intensity and game sense. It's not like Greene was a man child of Luke Parker or Dustin Martin type proportions. Wingard and Greene were both listed at 77kgs on their clubs websites at the beginning of the season too BTW.

 

[HarbourMaster]

Lee is certainly closing in on a first round position and would probably consider him as more of a situational late 1st rounder - 2nd rounder at this stage but there is still plenty of football to be played. If Cloke leaves Collingwood then I suggest Collingwood will look into Lee as an immediate replacement.

If there have been rumours about Ashley Hansen making it back into the AFL then I certainly haven't heard any, nor any connection to Collingwood but the guy is in career best form and over the past three seasons and has really evelated his game. He is averaging close to 6 goals a game and close to 10 marks a game. While he was a well below average key forward in his first stint in the AFL he looks a different and much improved player and as a key forward is the most immediate guy you'll find not on an AFL list. Hansen is 30 now so he is not a long term investment but certainly could be a rookie option for a club looking for a guy you can get solid production out of for two years.
Hansen really seems to be one of those forgotten players who people will put a line through as soon as they see his name, but I would strongly recommend clubs looking for a key forward who can produce for two or so years look into Hansen as that immediate option as a rookie selection - he looks a different player to that guy I saw struggling to kick a goal a game for West Coast some years ago.

All of this, about Lee being a first or second round pick and Hansen being an option is so far off the mark it's not funny.

I can appreciate the time you've put into this effort but your knowledge on these two is way off.

 

[the mighty T]

All of this, about Lee being a first or second round pick and Hansen being an option is so far off the mark it's not funny.

I can appreciate the time you've put into this effort but your knowledge on these two is way off.

I take it you dont think too highly of the best state league forward going around. Where would you have him going? From what ive seen, he could quite easily slot into an AFL side and do the job required of him.. not sure i could say the same about all the top tall prospects

 

[HarbourMaster]

I take it you dont think too highly of the best state league forward going around. Where would you have him going? From what ive seen, he could quite easily slot into an AFL side and do the job required of him.. not sure i could say the same about all the top tall prospects

He wont go in the first two rounds at least.

My guess would be a very late ND pick, PSD or as a Rookie.

He's frame is too small to hold down a KPF spot in the AFL, he's not Harry Taylor who was controlling matches for an average East Fremantle and had the frame to work with.

He's playing in the best side in Australia, outside of the AFL, he's got the best dummy target in the WAFL with Chad Jones opening space up for him and he's playing on massive W.A ovals with the ball being delivered on a platter.

The reason he got chopped from the crows was his inability to compete on tighter grounds which were conducive to contested marking.

Lee is a lead up forward, capable of taking the occasional hanger.

He will always be better suited as a third tall and he's worth is being well over played on these boards.

The comment about Hansen looking much better than when he was at West Coast made me giggle, he still runs on train tracks and looks like Bambi on ice when he tries to turn.

Hansens issue was not that he couldnt lead or kick, it was that he struggled to hold grabs overhead and was the source of constant rebounds from defence, he was a statue. Look at the Eagles forward line now, Darling and Kennedy are two of the best chasing talls in the competition, a large part of the reason why WC keep the ball kept in their attacking half for longer than their opponents.

 

[gifted1]

You've got to be joking. Describing Toby's body as "AFL ready" is a long bow to draw. Greene's high AFL output has come from his elite running ability, intensity and game sense. It's not like Greene was a man child of Luke Parker or Dustin Martin type proportions. Wingard and Greene were both listed at 77kgs on their clubs websites at the beginning of the season too BTW.

think theyre talking about josh green, not toby greene

 

[Toadvine]

think theyre talking about josh green, not toby greene

Ah ok. I got confused because Wargreymon put an "e" and the of "Green"

 

[adam10]

Praying we go for Stringer and Mayes with picks 5 and 6, obviously if Toumpas is available he is a must but think these two guys are pretty big needs for us.

 

[blueiris]

I think the top seven picks pick them selfs it's brisbane's pick that could change every thing does brisbane trade pick 8 to adelaide for tippett or pick a tall forward there also some pretty good mids still there too
my top seven picks at the moment are
1.Lachlan Whitfield
2.Jimmy Toumpas
3.Brodie Gundy
4.Sam Mayes
5.Oliver Wines
6.Dayle Garlett
7.Ben Kennedy
what are your thoughts knights
that leaves Shaw Jaksch Plowman and O'Rouke for brisbane to pick at pick 8

 

[Nickos66]

Stringer?

Garlett won't go top 10, at least not after his disciplinary stuff with Swan Districts recently.

 

[Knightmare]

I think the top seven picks pick them selfs it's brisbane's pick that could change every thing does brisbane trade pick 8 to adelaide for tippett or pick a tall forward there also some pretty good mids still there too
my top seven picks at the moment are
1.Lachlan Whitfield
2.Jimmy Toumpas
3.Brodie Gundy
4.Sam Mayes
5.Oliver Wines
6.Dayle Garlett
7.Ben Kennedy
what are your thoughts knights
that leaves Shaw Jaksch Plowman and O'Rouke for brisbane to pick at pick 8

O'Rouke probably goes earlier. One of the few with a mix between inside/outside game and has made a great recovery from last seasons injury. My bet of these is Garlett probably is available and looks of these to be the one more likely available at 8.

I'd personally trade pick 8 for Tippett if the option is there and he decides he wants to move back to QLD next year but if not probably best available is the way to go. The bigs will have to be looked at very seriously but many of the mids at this stage are looking a little better and probably present more value.

Stringer?

Garlett won't go top 10, at least not after his disciplinary stuff with Swan Districts recently.

Garlett is one of the most talented in the draft so I wouldn't completely discount it. Discipline issues or not I can see him going somewhere around pick 10.