Draft Watcher Knightmare's 2014 Phantom Draft

[Ant_]

If the order stays as it is, who would the Dogs take at 26?

 

[wingman09]

in the reece mckenzie bio you've said his slow pretty much but he finished top 10 in the 20m sprints?
his more powerful than he seems from first hand experience

 

[Dan87]

in the reece mckenzie bio you've said his slow pretty much but he finished top 10 in the 20m sprints?
his more powerful than he seems from first hand experience

I also noted this in a couple articles.

Will e picked by Carlton at pick 6 surely. Even Dogs at 5.

 

[Knightmare]

If the order stays as it is, who would the Dogs take at 26?

Reece McKenzie would be a chance depending on what happens first round given Jones wants out.

in the reece mckenzie bio you've said his slow pretty much but he finished top 10 in the 20m sprints?
his more powerful than he seems from first hand experience

Don't get sucked in by testing. McKenzie while his 20m time is surprising at ground level in that Cloke like way he just doesn't have a great turning circle as a guy who won't turn you around, run around you or take you back into goal. He is more a power mark and goal guy.

He does have the strength and leaping combination and can at times break away from guys on the lead. But agility, turning circle, endurance. Not so much.

I also noted this in a couple articles.

Will e picked by Carlton at pick 6 surely. Even Dogs at 5.

McKenzie likely goes somewhere around the second round mark. Dogs and Carlton around then might take a look.

 

[Dan87]

I appreciate the early second rounder assessment of Reece, but geez will believe that when I see it. Freo will get him with their first rounder at the worst.

Not so long ago you had significant wraps on him I believe?

As a speculative pick I also like Menadue. Nice to see him find his way to Sydney somehow.

 

[Azul]

I'd be more inclined to look at one of those American ruckmen, say Marvin Baynham as a category 2 rookie. Doesn't waste a list position that way.

Carlton already have Casey Byrne (Ireland) and are signing Fraser Russell (athletics).

So no free spots in that regard.

 

[Knightmare]

I appreciate the early second rounder assessment of Reece, but geez will believe that when I see it. Freo will get him with their first rounder at the worst.

Not so long ago you had significant wraps on him I believe?

As a speculative pick I also like Menadue. Nice to see him find his way to Sydney somehow.

I for a while there had McKenzie much higher but then just looking at his game he is a one trick wonder. Terrific contested mark but that's basically what he does and will count against him on club draft boards.

I still like Reece and would willingly use a selection around pick 20 to secure him if needing a key forward.

Menadue is quality but looks like someone who will go late first- early second round. Unless Sydney trade into a further first round selection it would be unlikely that Menadue to Sydney happens. He is a terrific talent and lots of clubs will be all over him I imagine.

Carlton already have Casey Byrne (Ireland) and are signing Fraser Russell (athletics).

So no free spots in that regard.

Clubs get 3 category b rookie positions each.

Hey Knightmare will Collingwood be tempted to take another tall at 5 if Petracca and Brayshaw are gone? or will it be Laverde Pickett Ahern?

It is an unknown whether we would go tall or small with that pick. I would be inclined to think smaller. Perhaps on a Pickett or Weller if we like them.

But I'd be inclined to think that first round pick via Brisbane would be shopped with the club I imagine looking for some more immediate help after the 2300 games of experience lost these past two seasons and all the recent first round draft picks injected these past couple of seasons.

 

[Dan87]

Will be interesting to see where McKenzie goes, such an in demand skill set, and he definitely presents as a crucial piece to any forward line.

 

[wingman09]

yeah i agree with the agility and such knightmare, i seriously rate him more highly than some but i could be biased

 

[HawkintheTuarts]

Think I agree with Knightmare about put too much stock into the Draft Combine. Look at the kicking results:

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-10-03/who-stole-the-show-in-this-years-draft-combine
Kicking test (score out of 30)
Nakia Cockatoo 29
Daniel Howe 28
Kyle Langford 28
Toby McLean 27
Michael Mattingly 27
Nathan Drummond 27
Dean Gore 27
Brett Eddy 27
Clem Smith 26
Liam Duggan 26
Brayden Maynard 26
Jack Steele 26
Ed Vickers-Willis 26
Mitch McGovern 26

You would never pick Clem based on his kicking in a game...

 

[grundog49]

KM what is your opinion on jack hiscox? he seems to be like bradley hill at jacks age, being called an athlete first then footballer

 

[Knightmare]

Apart from Dangerfield (a long shot) and Greenwood more the Lumumba pick.. who would we be chasing with pick 4? and what could we reasonably expect?

And just on the Lumumba pick: Would you go Greenwood? or a shot at a Garlett Menadue Lamb Smith etc with pick 23?

If Collingwood had that pick four and no trade can get done for it then maybe a Weller or Pickett given we're lacking some go on the outside. But in a three way trade with Brisbane I would be looking for an equivalent quality midfielder - a Parker or Hannebery as an example who while not as good as Beams would be about as good as could plausibly be achieved if Brisbane are willing to move more than their first round pick in the trade which eventually they'll need to budge on to make something happen. A scenario involving GWS might open up, Stephen Coniglio and Toby Greene would be strong gets in a Beams deal and with neither top 10 players on their list and Greene likely out of favour with his off-field issues that is the other type of move I would be looking at.

If Collingwood had that extra pick in the 20s I'd be open to trading, maybe for Aaron Mullett, maybe for Jeff Garlett, both of whom Collingwood could really use back and forward respectively. If that pick remains then perhaps Collingwood look at a Menadue or Jarrod Garlett. Or perhaps they have someone else in mind they rate much more highly.

In any case other than that first round pick to be used on Moore any other picks would be on the table for the right player - with guys who can help contribute towards winning now what the club need most with too many picks these past couple of seasons introduced.

Think I agree with Knightmare about put too much stock into the Draft Combine. Look at the kicking results:

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-10-03/who-stole-the-show-in-this-years-draft-combine
Kicking test (score out of 30)
Nakia Cockatoo 29
Daniel Howe 28
Kyle Langford 28
Toby McLean 27
Michael Mattingly 27
Nathan Drummond 27
Dean Gore 27
Brett Eddy 27
Clem Smith 26
Liam Duggan 26
Brayden Maynard 26
Jack Steele 26
Ed Vickers-Willis 26
Mitch McGovern 26

You would never pick Clem based on his kicking in a game...

Drummond is another head scratcher amongst that group. Kicking and making good decisions are his primary issues. Terrific contested ball winner and acceleration otherwise.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

KM, what's the stocks like for genuine first ruckman? Apart from your rookie athletic prospect types, are there any ruckman worthy of being drafted in the main draft like Nankervis last year or Grundy the year before?

 

[Wizard17]

Mark Kovacevic maybe?

Looks like Campbell in my opinion what do you think KM?

KM, what's the stocks like for genuine first ruckman? Apart from your rookie athletic prospect types, are there any ruckman worthy of being drafted in the main draft like Nankervis last year or Grundy the year before?

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Mark Kovacevic maybe?

Looks like Campbell in my opinion what do you think KM?

I was thinking Mark Pittonet maybe? A good finals series might see him drafted.

 

[Knightmare]

KM what is your opinion on jack hiscox? he seems to be like bradley hill at jacks age, being called an athlete first then footballer

Hill had the same issue at the same stage as Hiscox with both not finding a whole lot of the ball but Hiscox probably isn't as good at applying that pace in game and using it offensively. Ball use also not on the same level as that of Hill.

Given Hiscox's athletic background it will be interesting to see whether he can make the grade. But as a footballer at this stage there are others that are ahead of him and better performed.

KM, what's the stocks like for genuine first ruckman? Apart from your rookie athletic prospect types, are there any ruckman worthy of being drafted in the main draft like Nankervis last year or Grundy the year before?

With the ruckmen it's a year of don't bother in the national draft. There is no Grundy or Nankervis in this draft.

Of those I would be prepaired to take as a rookie:
Sam Baulderstone from the SANFL is probably the relatively more interesting as a mature ruckman, but even he isn't season one ready, skilled, big bodied and productive around the ground as he is.
Darcy Cameron as an overager I don't dislike either and feel he has some scope to improve and someone who should have been taken last year.
Of the Victorians Mark Kovacevic is probably the more interesting of the ruckmen as someone who is not only a good tap ruckman but can take marks around the ground and at times kick a goal in the front half.

For one reason or another none of these three were invited to the national combine with other ruckmen in the minds of recruiters favoured, but can't say I agree with the experts on this one.

 

[Wizard17]

To me Kovacevic is a better tap ruckman and is more dangerous when resting forward so I see him as being slightly the better choice.

I was thinking Mark Pittonet maybe? A good finals series might see him drafted.

 

[Knightmare]

Mark Kovacevic maybe?

Looks like Campbell in my opinion what do you think KM?

Kovacevic has been my preferred of the Victorian ruckmen this season. He has a bit more of a presence to him around the ground. Takes some big grabs. Can hit the scoreboard and is a very good tap ruckman.

As a rookie if you want a long term ruckman to develop, he would be the guy for me. But not national draft, not that that would have to be spent to get him anyway.

I was thinking Mark Pittonet maybe? A good finals series might see him drafted.

Pittonet has his fans but I'm not one myself. Good tap ruckman and can direct his hitouts to his midfielders at times but other than that there isn't anything else that really stands out to me with him. Not a goalkicking threat. Not a towering mark.

 

[bearslover1996]

I'd like:

Beams to Gold Coast

Prestia and Pick 8 to Collingwood

Pick 8 to GWS for Greene


Prestia and Greene (ave 55 disposals) for Beams (ave 27 disposals)

No chance in hell that is ever going to happen

 

[BangyBangy]

I'd like:

Beams to Gold Coast

Prestia and Pick 8 to Collingwood

Pick 8 to GWS for Greene


Prestia and Greene (ave 55 disposals) for Beams (ave 27 disposals)

= Scott Clayton sacked.

 

[Wizard17]

Agree with this 100% to me Kovacevic is the ruck I'd like to bring in so we can develop him while Minson comes to the end of his career that way we'd still have no 1 ruck depth in Campbell and Kovacevic that could replace him so they'd be no need to chase rucks later on unless disaster struck. I'd very much consider a rookie pick for him if I was the dogs.

Kovacevic has been my preferred of the Victorian ruckmen this season. He has a bit more of a presence to him around the ground. Takes some big grabs. Can hit the scoreboard and is a very good tap ruckman.

As a rookie if you want a long term ruckman to develop, he would be the guy for me. But not national draft, not that that would have to be spent to get him anyway.



Pittonet has his fans but I'm not one myself. Good tap ruckman and can direct his hitouts to his midfielders at times but other than that there isn't anything else that really stands out to me with him. Not a goalkicking threat. Not a towering mark.

 

[Turbocat]

Knightmare , we on the Geelong board have over time have become a bit cynical of Wells idea of best. As one poster put it

Yes, getting excited learning about some of the youngsters in the draft.
But before I take my research any further, can someone give me a list of kids in the 'injured, forgotten 25-35 range' so I can learn more about who we will take with Pick 13? Cheers

I guess it the result of taking Thurlow and Lang type picks. Personally I like Weller but as I have never once picked a Well R1 , I'm not a good guide , and the way Cockatoo has performed who know where he will go.

Anyway , is there a couple players that fit the "previous an R1 but has been injured most of the year , slightly forgotten and now rated 25+" type in this draft?

 

[Knightmare]

Knightmare , we on the Geelong board have over time have become a bit cynical of Wells idea of best. As one poster put it



I guess it the result of taking Thurlow and Lang type picks. Personally I like Weller but as I have never once picked a Well R1 , I'm not a good guide , and the way Cockatoo has performed who know where he will go.

Anyway , is there a couple players that fit the "previous an R1 but has been injured most of the year , slightly forgotten and now rated 25+" type in this draft?

Sounds like Jake Lever if there. He has missed the season. Just not likely to be available as late as Geelong's first round selection.

Peter Bampton is that other who fits that profile missing the U18 Champs and much of the season as someone seemingly forgotten. Terrific onballer and is that Tom Liberatore, hard nosed style of guy midfielder. Probably goes somewhere second round but he is a genuine first rounder for me and will represent value to whichever club picks him.

Cockatoo has missed the majority of the season but he is more a second round selection. Jaden McGrath has also missed the majority of the season but can probably be had late/rookie draft and is another worth being aware of.

 

[borderbarry]

If the Saints trade out Pick One and end up with pick 3/4, bearing mind that you have gone off McCarten and Wright. would Durden be a safer bet as a big forward for us?

 

[Knightmare]

If the Saints trade out Pick One and end up with pick 3/4, bearing mind that you have gone off McCarten and Wright. would Durden be a safer bet as a big forward for us?

Durdin is probably more likely a key defender. He is a possible key forward but he looks better down back for now. As a key forward he isn't a safe bet as he is down back mostly because he hasn't really done it well to this point in the front half and it would be speculative guess at this point. He has the traits to make the switch to the front half so it's possible, but there would be a learning curve.

If the Saints want a centre half back, depending on the preference between Durdin/Goddard/Lever that would be the choice.

If looking for a key forward McCartin and Wright are the dominant two and are the two to look at. Wright probably has the best upside in this draft and if things really go right for him watch out but that would be what you're betting on if picking him, McCartin deep in the front half is the most dominant and the more immediate help of the two and would if there be my pick at 3/4.