Knowledge Nation

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sbagman

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It's great seeing Labour finally announcing their Knowledge Nation policy.

I think putting money back into research and development is something that is desperately needed in this country, to try and arrest the so-called "brain drain".

Queensland and now Victoria are heavily investing in the biotech industry here, hopefully this can now be supported at a federal level.

Sbagman.
 
I agree the Knowledge Nation is the only decent policy I've seen from Labor this campaign. However, it won't be much good if Labor buggers up the economy and there's no jobs for all our brand new clever dicks. Plus - I really hate the idea of a Budget deficit. That's so 80's.
 
Originally posted by powerboi
I agree the Knowledge Nation is the only decent policy I've seen from Labor this campaign. However, it won't be much good if Labor buggers up the economy and there's no jobs for all our brand new clever dicks. Plus - I really hate the idea of a Budget deficit. That's so 80's.
Click to expand...

No jobs?

Have you seen how many company's are cutting staff at the moment?
hmm?
 

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I think Labour has some really good policies out there, but I'm not very politically aware in a financial sense, so I don't know where all this money is coming from.

I do know about science in this country though. We have a huge number of "clever dicks" here, we're not talking about producing more.... the problem is when they've become clever dicks, they immediately go overseas and alot of the time don't return, because of better pay and opportunities.

So we're training all these people for other places to benefit from.

Biotechnology is becoming a very important industry, and potentially very financially rewarding... people are always going to get sick, and we'll always need cures for diseases.
 
Did you know there were @ 26,000 small businesses filing for bankrupcy since the introduction of the GST, UO @ 60% ON lABORS LAST YEAR IN OFFICE....

The same line of budget deficit were used when Bracks was elected, Victoria have just announced a massive budget surplus ... and are being criticized for that ...

If Costello and Howard hadnt deliberately run down the budget surplus, perhaps Labor couldve done more .......
 
Originally posted by powerboi
I agree the Knowledge Nation is the only decent policy I've seen from Labor this campaign. However, it won't be much good if Labor buggers up the economy and there's no jobs for all our brand new clever dicks. Plus - I really hate the idea of a Budget deficit. That's so 80's.
Click to expand...

So you think the budget is surplus?
Using the method of accounting used previously we are 3 Billion in deficit NOW.

Imagine the method used before as your gas bill. You have $100 cash to pay for it in three months time say. The $100 is not counted in the budget because it is already going to spent for the gas bill it is not your's to spend.

NOW you dicks ignore the gas bill and "hey presto" we are $100 in surplus!!

Method one... use for Beasleys black hole

Method two..use for Howards surplus
 
Originally posted by TheMase


No jobs?

Have you seen how many company's are cutting staff at the moment?
hmm?
Click to expand...

You're not kidding the Mase. I have a friend who works as an IT recruiter and they are starting to lay off the recruiters because there are no jobs at all.

The IT industry has gone the toilet in the last 12 months, and yet not a mention of it from either party. There's no point in having nation of educated people if there are no jobs. Surely, this ALP policy should be extended to some kind of job creation program, otherwise there is no point to it.

On your point 1AD, it always helps to balance the books when you sell everything you own. The ALP started it and the Libs are continuing with it. This "surplus" they keep mentioning is a farce. What really annoys me is that they are starting to sell off public infrastructure that should belong to the people and not the private sector....I mean why do we have privately run ROADS in NSW now?
 
Education is an investment.

Don't count the cost of doing it, count the future cost of not doing it.

If the country gets run down the refugee problem is solved - they will no longer want to come here.
 
Originally posted by Briedis


You're not kidding the Mase. I have a friend who works as an IT recruiter and they are starting to lay off the recruiters because there are no jobs at all.

The IT industry has gone the toilet in the last 12 months, and yet not a mention of it from either party. There's no point in having nation of educated people if there are no jobs. Surely, this ALP policy should be extended to some kind of job creation program, otherwise there is no point to it.
Click to expand...

The boom in the IT industry was due to the employment that occurred due to firstly, the Y2K bug, and secondly, the amount of money that went into companies during the craze for internet stocks. About 3 years ago, internet companies would raise funds by listing on the stock exchange, then use the money (combined with the stock options) to recruit IT people to try and make their business plans work. When these companies started to run out of money, the IT people started to get the sack. The problem was that many of these businesses were not viable in the first place, and thus, the employment boom in IT was more or less, a bubble.

Now that people have lost interest in trading in internet stocks and the floats have dried up, stock brokers, legal firms, accounting firms etc. have also started to lay off staff.
 
The brain drain didnt start under Howard, it started under Hawke. I know. I did Biochem Honours and didnt keep going b/c there was no point in getting a job for $12,000 a year. I had togo overseas to get a better position and wasnt willing to do that so I chose a different career.

Knowledge spaghetti is good in theory, but not when you dont have the money to fund it. In that case it remains a theory only.
 
Originally posted by Yassar Arafat
The brain drain didnt start under Howard, it started under Hawke. I know. I did Biochem Honours and didnt keep going b/c there was no point in getting a job for $12,000 a year. I had togo overseas to get a better position and wasnt willing to do that so I chose a different career.

Knowledge spaghetti is good in theory, but not when you dont have the money to fund it. In that case it remains a theory only.
Click to expand...

That's why your still here dip****?
 
Yassir my friend, the 'brain drain' started under Hawke?

Well, give us the numbers, unfortunately a simple 'I know' doesnt really prove the point Yassir. Your argument may have some merit, but a simple 'I know' as evidence really doesn't cut it.

Try and get off your partisan high horse Yassir, its been going on for years longer. A lot of people who I meet over here(London, and met in NY during my 2 years there) have initially come on a year or so transfer, and decided to stay for longer. Money can be a reason, as is sometimes they get married to a American or Brit. Sometimes the work they choose to do is not really available in Australia, due to the size of the place. There is a lot of reasons for it, not really to do with any particular government, its just due to the opportunities available in certain field isn't there in Australia.

Haven't read the finer details of the 'Knowledge Nation' policy yet, but I have seen that the Vice Chancellors have been bagging both sides education policies, or lack thereof, to one degree or another. If education is not available for everyone, makes it pretty difficult to give everyone equal chance in life, I figure.
 

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Originally posted by London Dave
Yassir my friend, the 'brain drain' started under Hawke?

Well, give us the numbers, unfortunately a simple 'I know' doesnt really prove the point Yassir. Your argument may have some merit, but a simple 'I know' as evidence really doesn't cut it.

Try and get off your partisan high horse Yassir, its been going on for years longer. A lot of people who I meet over here(London, and met in NY during my 2 years there) have initially come on a year or so transfer, and decided to stay for longer. Money can be a reason, as is sometimes they get married to a American or Brit. Sometimes the work they choose to do is not really available in Australia, due to the size of the place. There is a lot of reasons for it, not really to do with any particular government, its just due to the opportunities available in certain field isn't there in Australia.

Haven't read the finer details of the 'Knowledge Nation' policy yet, but I have seen that the Vice Chancellors have been bagging both sides education policies, or lack thereof, to one degree or another. If education is not available for everyone, makes it pretty difficult to give everyone equal chance in life, I figure.
Click to expand...


I am quoting form my experience in studying for my honours degree in Biochemistry at Monash University. It is first hand knowleldge of people who were doing their Masters and were looking for places OS b/c they could not get grants and/or salaries matching their qualificaitions.

In my discussions with others in the Uni at the time I found that this was happening not only in Biochem but across all fields at the Uni.

I am sorry I did not do a survey for you.
 
Originally posted by Shinboners


The boom in the IT industry was due to the employment that occurred due to firstly, the Y2K bug, and secondly, the amount of money that went into companies during the craze for internet stocks.

...
Click to expand...

I have a theory which can be extended to this observation.

During the pre-Y2K period, where companies were screaming for folk to come in and fix their computers to stave off the promised crash. Sure enough, demand way exceeded supply and companies were taking anyone they could. It seemed that if you could spell the word "Computer" you were in with a (highly - paid) job.

Fast Forward to the present where there is no longer the money around to be put into IT investment. I observe that a lot of this either un or semi skilled IT people picked up pre-Y2K are still here, grimly hanging onto their jobs - ones that they would have little hope of ever picking up again.

This blockage, caused by the semi-skilled labour, has contributed to a market-place that largely has lost it's liquidity. A lot of the jobs that should be taken up by qualified people currently aren't.

This is showing signs of change now - only last week, in my department of the National Bank, there were 12 retrenchments announced. This number is made up almost entirely of staff that are not IT qualified.

Colleagues in other institutions are also reporting similar situations. Employers are now in a position to pick and choose who they wish to have working for them and are able to set the bar higher.

I would not be surprised if this window in time was used to up the ante for IT qualification even further. In order to be able to practice as an IT professional, it may soon be necessary to be a member of the professional body of this industry - The Australian Computer Society.

Other industries have a requirement for professional membership, so too should the relatively infant Information Technology.
 
Thats intersting - but perhaps the qualifications need some work.
Currently there is an abundance of things like CNE MCSE which seem to show that you can learn answers, fill in a multiple choice exam and hand over some cash. Where are the professional standards, the methodical approach to IT management. I have done a grad dip but even that seemed to change dramatically from year to year.

I would hate to see those with lots of experience but not so many ccie, mcse, cna etc squeezed out by some arbitary rulings

(PS I am one if you hadn't guessed)
 
Thanks for the "insider" comments CJH. I make my comments as an outsider......and also as someone who went straight to the financials everytime a stockbroker sent me a research report for every hot new internet stock that was about to list.....well gee...they're going to make losses for the next three years, then make a profit, and then have compound growth of 50% p.a.? Er, do you also believe in the Easter Bunny? ;)
 
Better attempt at a reasoned reply Yass, but you claim the brain drain started under Hawke....still waiting for evidence.
You say you found that lots of people doing masters (and I suppose, doctorates) were looking overseas for positions. No problem with that, I have had the same experience, as I outlined in my post. I never suggested that the brain drain did not exist.

Are you are inferring that people with these qualifications only started going overseas to fill posts during his period in office. its what started means.

Your call was..the brain drain started under Hawke. Still have not got one shred of evidence to support what you said. The brain drain went on under Hawke...no problem, it did, may have got worse, may have got better, don't know. But started?
You have improved on your original 'I know', but nowhere near to the extent you would have to convince any rational thinking person of your original call...the brain drain STARTED under Hawke. I never asked you to do a survey, just get hold of some reputable numbers to back up your case. Still waiting......

Perhaps your answer needs to be a little more pertinent to the question I asked you. so here it is again...You stated the 'brain drain' STARTED under Hawke. Put up or retract. Simple as that.
 
Originally posted by Yassar Arafat
That is when I observed it London Dave. Can you prove otherwise? I dont htink so. So where does that leave us?
Click to expand...
Most countries complain about the brain drain - it may not be an issue at all
 
This is where it leaves you Yassir.
You made the statement, the brain drain started under Hawke.
Initial evidence .. I know.
further evidence..anecdotal, which is fine, you experienced the brain drain, it exists. Now, as for starting under Hawke???

You first observed it under Hawke, fine. Does this prove your original contention...NO. It simply shows that you first observed/noticed the phenomena when Hawke was PM, (probably when you were at university?) Can I prove otherwise???? I was at university when Fraser was PM. like I said, I saw the same thing. Where does it leave us? My 'evidence is the same as yours mate. Does it 'prove' my point?

Come on Yass, do you have the balls to admit the statement 'the brain drain' started under Hawke is wrong or not.

Like I said, it may have got worse, better or stayed the same under him. Don't know, but starting??? Now, if you think it got worse under him, you'd need a little moree than anecdotal evidence to 'prove' it. A student of the Law should realise that.

Pessimistic...my problem is not who when why started the brain drain, it is with argument like Yassar puts up. Makes a statement that is totally false, then attempts to justify it with name calling and/or NO evidence that backs his original assertion. I'm still waiting to hear back from Easty re his assertion that illegal immigrants cause shortages in hospital beds, and Frodo regarding his Blair is an idiot b/c he has made his country a terrorist target, therefore Howard is the same.

I will talk about issues til the cows come home, but if you want a slanging match, forget it.
 
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