Kreuzer or Leunberger?

[smiddaz123]

That about sums it up. Would you like the new improved version of Dean Cox or the next Josh Fraser?

Right...I struggle to see how you can call Luenberger an improved version of Dean Cox at the moment. If he gets to Cox's level he's developed amazingly.

 

[Grimreepah]

Carlton fans think Kreuzer is better and Lions fans think Leuenberger is better. Who would have guessed?

 

[jonoman89]

Too early to tell. The thing that makes Kruezer a freak though is his ability to crumb - and he's 200cm and still growing!

Might be worth looking at a Cox vs. Sandilands comparison. Sandi wins more taps than Cox, but Cox is an overall better player cause he can ruck well but also hurt teams around the ground.

 

[#6 Mark Williams]

Leunberger has been dropped, Kreuzer hasn't.

 

[notting18]

Leunberger has been dropped, Kreuzer hasn't.

Leuenberger isn't playing seniors for a variety of reasons and form is not one of them, it is mainly to ensure that he gets it through the whole season, when he was dropped he was arguably in better form than Charman. Also, Mitch Clark vs Cain Ackland...I wonder who is putting more pressure on each player to keep their spots even if form was an issue.

 

[WorthTheWaite]

There was an article in today's Herald Sun - the great ruckwork myth - which I think has it's merits and is slightly relevant to this. Leuenberger is taller, faster and a better pure ruckman than Kreuzer. Kreuzer is a smarter footballer with better skills and a greater ability to play around the ground.

I think Leuenberger will become better around the ground but won't really come close to Cox in terms of being an extra midfielder, whereas Kreuzer will be exceptional and also be very good in some positions along the spine.

If I were looking after Carlton and had the choice of either Kreuzer or Leuenberger, and had Hampson also developing, I would choose Kreuzer as we already have someone who's likely to win lots of hitouts. But without Hampson I'm not so sure, as I'm not wholly confident Kreuzer will be dominant in the hitout department.

 

[Mike_blues]

Leuenberger isn't playing seniors for a variety of reasons and form is not one of them, it is mainly to ensure that he gets it through the whole season, when he was dropped he was arguably in better form than Charman. Also, Mitch Clark vs Cain Ackland...I wonder who is putting more pressure on each player to keep their spots even if form was an issue.

ha cain ackland
no one wants him playing
disgrace to the cfc jumper

 

[super_phaser]

Kruezer is a unique type of player. Finding it hard to categorize him, as we really don't have anyone else playing at AFL level with his mix of talents. As soon as you type to categorize him, he demonstrates another freakish talent. Everyone says this or that ruckman is a "midfielder", usually because they're very mobile for their size, and are often providing a link option, setting up moves into the forward 50 etc etc e.g. Cox. But this guy truly plays like a smaller midfielder. It's like as though he doesn't realise he's 200cm. Once he's done the ruck stuff, he switches to small midfielder role, either extracting the ball, or being on the end of a handball in the middle, and using burst speed to break out of the pack. When the Blues midfielders gain possession and are moving forward, Matty Kruezer is one of them, running alongside, Judd, Murph, Stevens, Gibbs etc etc. The best way to describe the guy, is that he's a true quality midfielder, who just grew an extra 10cm or so. Apart from his talents, Matty's other outstanding attribute is his competitiveness and focus. He just never ever ever concedes defeat in a contested situation. He'll just keep on going until he wins. An extra-ordinary footballer.

And just think, Nataunui does all that but much better, plus more.

Natanui slaughtered Kreuzer in last years state carnival.

I look forward to the domination continuing at AFL level.



Back on topic -

Leunberger will be a superstar.

Kreuzer will be like Josh Fraser.

 

[The Teflon Dean]

Imagine if Carlton had taken Leuenberger?

Kruezer would be at CHF, Fev at FF, Waite at CHB, Leuenberger, Judd, Murphy, Stevens, Scotland etc. in the guts.

Frightening domino effect.

Only one key defender away from a definite future contender.

Big stuff up passing on Leuey.

 

[super_phaser]

Imagine if Carlton had taken Leuenberger?

Kruezer would be at CHF, Fev at FF, Waite at CHB, Judd, Murphy, Stevens, Scotland etc. in the guts.

Only one key defender away from a definite future contender.

Frightening.

Big stuff up passing on Leuey.

Was he from the Gibbs draft?

if so then a massive LOL

 

[The Teflon Dean]

Was he from the Gibbs draft?

if so then a massive LOL

Yes, Gibbs went one, Leuenberger went four.

Even if they pick up Natanui this year, it still throws their maximised team development out by at least two years.

If I was Carlton I would trade hard for a good 23 - 27 year old ruckman right now.

 

[super_phaser]

LOL @ choosing Bryce Squibbs over Leunberger.

I am pretty sure that Leunberger wouldnt back out of a contest with Stephen Milne.

 

[murph#3]

Sure, if that helps you sleep at night, tell yourself that.

Doesn't make it true though.

oh and i know i've proved my point and convinced you when you have to resort to picking out 1 little point out of my whole argument that has nothing to do with the actual comparison rather than trying to rebut any of my points. i'll take it you agree with everything i wrote.

 

[murph#3]

And just think, Nataunui does all that but much better, plus more.

Natanui slaughtered Kreuzer in last years state carnival.

I look forward to the domination continuing at AFL level.



Back on topic -

Leunberger will be a superstar.

Kreuzer will be like Josh Fraser.

you could at the very least try not tos how that it's your bias and only your bias speaking there. firstly, natanui did not slaughter kreuzer in the champs. if you had actually watche dthe game rather than listening to what others had to say, you would already know that. i thought kreuzer broke even with him and kreuzer beat leunberger quite comfortably the year before. but i've actually watched it so don't even worry about what i have to say.

yes leunberger will be a superstar. now tell me one thing that kreuzer and fraser have in common.

 

[BacharHouli_43]

Natanui slaughtered Kreuzer in last years state carnival.

I look forward to the domination continuing at AFL level.

An interesting poll would also include Natanui, but oh well. Reckon Kreuzer by an inch.

 

[BABYBOMBERS2007]

Leunberger is by far better.

 

[Monkeyboy]

Imagine if Carlton had taken Leuenberger?

Kruezer would be at CHF, Fev at FF, Waite at CHB, Leuenberger, Judd, Murphy, Stevens, Scotland etc. in the guts.

Frightening domino effect.

Only one key defender away from a definite future contender.

Big stuff up passing on Leuey.

But its actually scarier than you think.

Kreuzer will be CHF, Fev FF, Waite CHB, Jamieson FB, Hampson in the Ruck, and Judd, Stevens, Murphy etc get to have Gibbs as well. Will be frightening stuff. Would have been a massive mistake to have gone Luey over Gibbs.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Leuenberger has played about 16 games, and has only played a back-up role in all but one or two of them. In addition to that, I'd suggest that few people have actually watched him play.

The reason I'm saying this is the fallacy that Leuenberger is not a handy around the ground ruckman, or isn't mobile and athletic enough to make an impact as a link-man. He's an extremely mobile player for his size, and returned faster agility and 20m sprint times than Kreuzer at draft camp. That said, I'd say that despite the camp stats, Kreuzer appears to have the slight edge in pace and mobility when you watch them on the field, but the point is that it's not as though we're comparing Dean Cox to Mark Jamar in terms of around the ground utility.

Leuenberger is a dramatically better tap ruckman, and I'd say that the difference in possession gathering and usage isn't likely to be as telling in their overall careers as the difference in tapwork between the two.

That said, obviously you'd be pretty happy with either one.

 

[Burzum]

Can't go wrong with either of them.

 

[murph#3]

Leuenberger is a dramatically better tap ruckman.

while leunberger has a 4cm height advantage over kreuzer, kreuzer is a significantly better technician of the art of ruckwork. i don't know what either of their leaps are like statistically, but dont forget kreuzer had the largest handspan at the the draft camp. furthermore, kevin sheahan said kreuzer is the best 360 degree tapper and using either hand as well is a pretty fair wrap. to say leunberger is a dramatically better tap ruckman couldn't be any further from the truth. that said, he'll probably get more hitouts than kreuzer but that'll only be due to his height advantage and not his execution of tapping.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

while leunberger has a 4cm height advantage over kreuzer, kreuzer is a significantly better technician of the art of ruckwork. i don't know what either of their leaps are like statistically, but dont forget kreuzer had the largest handspan at the the draft camp. furthermore, kevin sheahan said kreuzer is the best 360 degree tapper and using either hand as well is a pretty fair wrap. to say leunberger is a dramatically better tap ruckman couldn't be any further from the truth.that said, he'll probably get more hitouts than kreuzer but that'll only be due to his height advantage and not his execution of tapping.

Well, Kreuzer MIGHT have a higher percentage of taps to advantage, but that tends to happen with ruckmen who don't win as many taps. For instance, Josh Fraser has a higher hit-out to advantage ratio than most ruckmen in the league, yet few consider him a top tap ruckman.

It's about volume as well as control, and you're overrating Kreuzer's tap work anyway

 

[smiddaz123]

It's about volume as well as control, and you're overrating Kreuzer's tap work anyway

A tad