Kyle Coney not coming back

[EatBig Australia]

If he has signed with us, what is the policy on paying him? Will this ease the salary cap in any way?

 

[SimonH]

If he has signed with us, what is the policy on paying him? Will this ease the salary cap in any way?

I think that it's pretty safe to say, 'if you don't work, you don't get paid'. So the Swans will save approx $30,000 in salary (the award is on the AFLPA website-- you can look it up) plus the other on-costs of having him on their list.

Rookie salaries don't count towards the cap.

 

[CAS79]

I think that it's pretty safe to say, 'if you don't work, you don't get paid'. So the Swans will save approx $30,000 in salary (the award is on the AFLPA website-- you can look it up) plus the other on-costs of having him on their list.

Rookie salaries don't count towards the cap.

I believe Rookie salaries count at 50% of the cap except for international rookies.

Irish Rookies are no longer regarded as international rookies as part of the agreement the AFL and GAA Came together on to reintroduce international rules.

 

[SimonH]

I believe Rookie salaries count at 50% of the cap except for international rookies.

No, or not usually. Oddly enough, the rules of the comp as regards salary caps et al are contained in the Collective Bargaining Agreement which is here. See clause 11 on page 13 of the document (which also refers you to clause 14). As I read them, the rules are:

a) payments to general rookie listed players do not count at all towards the cap (international or local, doesn't matter)
b) payments to rookie listed players promoted temporarily to the senior list to cover players on the long term injury list, still don't count at all towards the cap; but
c) clubs can choose to have up to 2 'nominated rookies' who are able to be selected to play for the senior side without being promoted; their salaries count 50% towards the cap.

The 'up to 2' restriction reflects the fact that you can't have more than 40 players eligible to be selected for a given match; that's 38 players on the senior list, plus 2 others made up of any combination of 'outside' veterans and nominated rookies.

The nominated rookie system is used occasionally but clubs aren't falling over themselves. This is due to a range of factors:
• at the start of the year the club's unlikely to be busting to play a rookie (if they were, they would have promoted them or selected them in the ND)
• the salary cap disadvantage
• the prospect that if they need the rookie mid-year because of injuries, the club can always promote them via the long-term injury list system without any cap cost.

Some clubs don't qualify anyway because they've filled up on outside veterans (Sydney have 2 players as outside veterans right now: MOL and Leo Barry).

 

[CAS79]

Simon i bow to you

I have a website that says 50% but you have the evidance and i accept your right.

for all salary cap and list management rules you are now the go to man.

 

[bedford]

But who does he follow, just for interests sake.

 

[CAS79]

But who does he follow, just for interests sake.

looks like a nowrood supporter first and than us in the AFL... my guess.

Maybe its nic fosdike's dad.

 

[snappy]

The bloke has signed a contract for ****'s sake! Can we be compensated? Another rookie pick or something?

This really pisses me off. We gave the bloke a shot, he signs a contract, and then pisses off. I'd be absolutely fine with it if he decided before the rookie draft. Then we could have made arrangements. But this is just shit.

Im in accordance with you mate, this is bollox, im thinking we send him the bill and see how he likes that. Flights, food, accommodation, training, and everything else included.
I dont want any of my membership being spent on a peenut like him!

 

[CAS79]

From the Irish Examiner story that confirms Kennelly will play this year at Sydney comes the quote that the swans are treading softly.


http://www.examiner.ie/irishexamine...-qqqm=sport-qqqa=sport-qqqid=81472-qqqx=1.asp

But a club spokesperson admitted that the door remained open to the 18-year-old should he change his mind. The spokesperson said: “We’re a bit disappointed that he’s not back in Australia already but we’re fully supportive of Kyle and his family because we understand that it’s a difficult decision to make for an 18-year-old. We are fully supportive and happy for him to take a bit of extra time to make up his mind and hopefully he ends up coming back to Australia to play for the Sydney Swans.”

The club must feel that after Christmas when his friends start to work, many outside of the county and uni/travel that a cash strapped amateur may reconsider.

I doubt it though and you need guts to make a change of this nature and it's clear he's missing them.

 

[Dudley]

From the Irish Examiner story that confirms Kennelly will play this year at Sydney comes the quote that the swans are treading softly.


http://www.examiner.ie/irishexamine...-qqqm=sport-qqqa=sport-qqqid=81472-qqqx=1.asp

But a club spokesperson admitted that the door remained open to the 18-year-old should he change his mind. The spokesperson said: “We’re a bit disappointed that he’s not back in Australia already but we’re fully supportive of Kyle and his family because we understand that it’s a difficult decision to make for an 18-year-old. We are fully supportive and happy for him to take a bit of extra time to make up his mind and hopefully he ends up coming back to Australia to play for the Sydney Swans.”

The club must feel that after Christmas when his friends start to work, many outside of the county and uni/travel that a cash strapped amateur may reconsider.

I doubt it though and you need guts to make a change of this nature and it's clear he's missing them.

Does this mean the club does not want him asphyxiated with a marital aid?

Unbelievable.

 

[Horsebox]

From the Irish Examiner story that confirms Kennelly will play this year at Sydney comes the quote that the swans are treading softly.


http://www.examiner.ie/irishexamine...-qqqm=sport-qqqa=sport-qqqid=81472-qqqx=1.asp

But a club spokesperson admitted that the door remained open to the 18-year-old should he change his mind. The spokesperson said: “We’re a bit disappointed that he’s not back in Australia already but we’re fully supportive of Kyle and his family because we understand that it’s a difficult decision to make for an 18-year-old. We are fully supportive and happy for him to take a bit of extra time to make up his mind and hopefully he ends up coming back to Australia to play for the Sydney Swans.”

The club must feel that after Christmas when his friends start to work, many outside of the county and uni/travel that a cash strapped amateur may reconsider.

I doubt it though and you need guts to make a change of this nature and it's clear he's missing them.

Hang on. He'd be getting about $30,000 max as a rookie wouldn't he? That's about the minimum wage here.

 

[CAS79]

Hang on. He'd be getting about $30,000 max as a rookie wouldn't he? That's about the minimum wage here.

33 000 and maybe rent allowance or a swan house added to any other job he may be able to work to fit into his football.


I just did some sums min wage in the uk for 18 (for those not following he is from a Northan Ireland county) year old is 4.77 pound. So assuming he worked 5 eight hour days a week he'd Earn 9921.6 pounds.

put that through the currency converter and that comes to 21,296.59 AUD and thats not leaving much time for football allowances on his time.

Has he got a full time job? most 18 year olds I know across the planet don't. The whole reason these players are crossing codes is the earning potential.

Marty Clarke at Collingwood has passed comment on the young player wage being attractive.

Ill step back a little about cash strapped but he is potentially losing much more. Also if I was earning 30 000 at 18 I'd have been a very happy boy.

 

[Horsebox]

Believe me. They will make up a job for him in Tyrone. And he won't be on the minimum wage either, that's for sure.

 

[bedford]

That sounds like some of the clubs in the VAFA

 

[Quigley]

Bad luck guys. The same thing happened with Brenden Quigley for us a few years ago. No concessions I am afraid.

On the rookie pay scale issue. From memory if you don't have two veteran list players you can have a nominated rookie (or similar term) and their salary counts only 50% against the salary cap. I think we did this with Begley last year. Other rookies count fully to the cap.

 

[Ed_Gein]

Ah well, it happens. Pretty sure Kennelly found himself in a simular position when he first came to the Swans with all the homesickness etc. I really don't blame him, at 18 you would feel quite vunerable away from home in a totally different country by yourself without family.

A missed opportunity for Coney, but there are plenty of other talented players from Ireland who will no doubt relish the opportunity of coming here to play. Despite not have seen anything of him, it was a gamble as to whether or not he would have made it here anyway.

 

[Ed_Gein]

The Kangaroos had a similar fate when we traded Mark "Space Cadet" Powell to them. Powell gave the game away after all the drafts were concluded and were not given another pick.

And the person spewin' the most about that whole situation was Shane Woewodin, he was training with the Roo's at the time. He may have gotten the chance to resurrect his career had Powell made his decision earlier.

 

[BarneyBent]

Ah well, it happens. Pretty sure Kennelly found himself in a simular position when he first came to the Swans with all the homesickness etc. I really don't blame him, at 18 you would feel quite vunerable away from home in a totally different country by yourself without family.

A missed opportunity for Coney, but there are plenty of other talented players from Ireland who will no doubt relish the opportunity of coming here to play. Despite not have seen anything of him, it was a gamble as to whether or not he would have made it here anyway.

Yeah, you can't blame him for changing his mind. You definitely CAN blame him, however, for doing it after mutual commitments had been made and a contract signed.

 

[rebelcounty]

From the Irish Examiner story that confirms Kennelly will play this year at Sydney comes the quote that the swans are treading softly.


http://www.examiner.ie/irishexamine...-qqqm=sport-qqqa=sport-qqqid=81472-qqqx=1.asp

But a club spokesperson admitted that the door remained open to the 18-year-old should he change his mind. The spokesperson said: “We’re a bit disappointed that he’s not back in Australia already but we’re fully supportive of Kyle and his family because we understand that it’s a difficult decision to make for an 18-year-old. We are fully supportive and happy for him to take a bit of extra time to make up his mind and hopefully he ends up coming back to Australia to play for the Sydney Swans.”

The club must feel that after Christmas when his friends start to work, many outside of the county and uni/travel that a cash strapped amateur may reconsider.

I doubt it though and you need guts to make a change of this nature and it's clear he's missing them.

Ye seem to think that what he's doing is a missed opportunity for him, that it's the wrong decision by him. That he'll regret it. This lad, I've no doubt, has been dreaming about playing for Tyrone since he was a young lad.

Lacks guts?? Clearly you've never seen him on the pitch. He has maturity beyond his years and he is one massive reason why Tyrone won the Minor final. That might not be a dream with 30,000 a year (It's worth a hell lot more then that.), but it's his dream..it's a lot of people's dream.These group of kids, played in a final, Coney could and should have done better, the final was a draw, but the replay, it was magnificent, he was magnificent, he drove them on he was the engine, and all of those kids deserve massive credit for playing one of the best finals in years. Guts, please, the final had to be played again, and then the replay went into extra time. Rarely do you see two teams of kids give that much, that hard. Euphoria for the winners and devastation for the loosers.
It meant so much and this was the minor final. A day when all gave some and some gave all.

I'm pretty sure ye don't and wont understand but, this is his dream and it is one that I've no doubt he will fullfill and go on to be a great.
To leave that, to travel across the world, 18 years old, away from his family and friends to play a game that he might or might not do well in or even like..that's too much to ask.


But hell lets leave all that, none of that matters because it pays.
Sometimes sport is more then just money. The pull of his club and county means more to him then 30 odd grand a year. Ye think it's just a decision he made because it was over Christmas and all his family was there and everyone was back and all that jazz. Maybe just maybe it was because he prefers GAA.

"I watched the DVDs of Tyrone minors winning the All-Ireland as well as the minor championship final with Ardboe when I was out there and I realised that I missed it all too much," he said.



"It gave me goosebumps to watch those games again and that helped make up my mind. Tyrone have done so well in recent seasons at all grades and I want to be part of future success. (Coney)



He is more then entitled to change his mind, the fact that he had signed a contract, a bit of paper means nothing when you are making a decision to move to the other side of the world away from everything and everyone you know and love.

We've witnessed first hand when an outstanding player that was Santy O hAilpin, left what could have been, what would have been one hell of a career, an outstanding talent went to being an ordinary to average, and according to some poor, professional.

The lad changed his mind and I don't think he'll regret it. At the end of the day GAA, though it doesn't pay, means more to him then what might be over there.
And even now, Kennelly and Clarke, have great careers but they are something special, but even now, one thing that they'll want to do is go home and play and win with their county and club, because GAA is in their blood and it's like a drug. Hell Martin Clarke spent the entire of his "holiday" last season playing with his club and his preformance back in Collingwood suffered because of it and Kennelly is finishing his career early to go back and hopefully play for Kerry in the hope of winning an AI medal that he's always wanted.

This isn't a step down because he didn't have the guts, this is him following his dream that he's always had.

 

[CAS79]

(Coney)



He is more then entitled to change his mind, the fact that he had signed a contract, a bit of paper means nothing when you are making a decision to move to the other side of the world away from everything and everyone you know and love.

.

Aaron Bruce was removed from the Swans list before this happened, it is entirely possible by signing this contract he has destroyed another young mans dreams of developing into an AFL footballer, when you get removed from a list you rarely make it back.

Good luck if your dream is playing GAA football, I'm not saying that is the wrong call at all, but the lure of the cash was there or he would never have dabbled with the AFL in the first place.

But by signing a contract and reneging on it isn't just him changing his mind, its potentially leaving the Swans a devlopment player down as we dont get to add to our list to the end of the 2009 season now and its potentially destroying another young mans dreams as well, who playing in the AFL would mean the world too. That the low act.

Kennelly has always said he's going home been very open about it and kept every bit of his word to the club, different class of character altogether.

Also Was'nt O'Hailpan a hurling player.... never understood how you picked up a player to cross codes from hurling to AFL, there not alike at all.

 

[bedford]

Well said Cas i think the unlisted Rebel county has left himself wide open

 

[.Shotties.]

This isn't a step down because he didn't have the guts, this is him following his dream that he's always had.

This is him squibbing on a contract and decision he had six months to make. Not only that, he waited until we'd cut another one of our youngsters and couldn't draft him back to decide to start following his dream, so apologies if some of our chests aren't heaving with delight at the young boy following his dream.

 

[RW]

Aaron Bruce was removed from the Swans list before this happened, it is entirely possible by signing this contract he has destroyed another young mans dreams of developing into an AFL footballer, when you get removed from a list you rarely make it back.

On the flip side though it's not Coney's fault that the club decided to go into 2009 with a smaller rookie list. (perhaps due to budget cuts?) They had the opportunity to pick up Bruce or some other NSW kid in the rookie draft if they wished, irrespective of the Coney situation, but chose not to. That said he probably shouldn't have signed the contract. But you never know, maybe he had a genuine change of heart when he returned to Ireland.

 

[robbieando]

On the flip side though it's not Coney's fault that the club decided to go into 2009 with a smaller rookie list.

We went with a small Rookie List for a reason that had NOTHING to do with Coney coming to the club. Can't blame him for that. Regardless of the outcome (whether he stayed or not) he would of counted within the Rookie List and not outside it as past Irish pick up via the Rookie List had been. This was a known risk when we drafted him and it has happened to us before as well as other clubs.

They had the opportunity to pick up Bruce or some other NSW kid in the rookie draft if they wished, irrespective of the Coney situation, but chose not to.

They chose not to because they had settled on a number of rookie listed players their were going into 2009 with and sadly with Coney deciding after the fact he rather stay in Northern Ireland and play GAA instead which he is more than intitled to do, we are forced to keep him on our rookie list for the entire 2009 season. That costs a NSW kid such as Aaron Bruce or even another player from else in Australia a spot on an AFL list to prove what their worth.

But I gather Coney was happy to be at the Swans on Rookie Draft Day and was looking forward to 2009 at the Swans. It when it got home for Christmas that things started to turn in his mind and thats fair enough. We have had that happen to us before and it could happen again. Also don't forget he can still come back at any stage if he wishes up until we delist him. So while he is on our Rookie List he is still our player (though that doesn't stop him playing in the GAA, just stops any other AFL club approaching him).

That said he probably shouldn't have signed the contract.

Looking back at it now of course he shouldn't of but who is to say at the time he did he didn't have ever intention in his mind to forfill the contract?? We just can't type the thoughts of a 18 year old when they when signing a life-changing contract, just as we can't do the same when he decided to turn his back on that contract. He has is reasons and no doubt to him they are 100% reasonable. Sure they hurt the Swans because we are down a rookie-listed player for 2009 (unless he changes his mind again) but let him be.

But you never know, maybe he had a genuine change of heart when he returned to Ireland.

You know that might of been the case 100%, but he'll never have his chance to put his case to Swans fans nor if he did would he be believed sadly.

 

[rebelcounty]

Aaron Bruce was removed from the Swans list before this happened, it is entirely possible by signing this contract he has destroyed another young mans dreams of developing into an AFL footballer, when you get removed from a list you rarely make it back.

Which ya was a balls like. It's a pity he has to loose out, but it was a massive decisions to make. It's a pity but it's his decision to make and I doubt it was an easy one. If the kids as good as you say then he'll hopefully make it.

Good luck if your dream is playing GAA football, I'm not saying that is the wrong call at all, but the lure of the cash was there or he would never have dabbled with the AFL in the first place.

Going across the world to Australia, to the sun, to adventure, to ya money in a time of massive recision, for an 18 year old is as tempting as it is scary.

But by signing a contract and reneging on it isn't just him changing his mind, its potentially leaving the Swans a devlopment player down as we dont get to add to our list to the end of the 2009 season now and its potentially destroying another young mans dreams as well, who playing in the AFL would mean the world too. That the low act.

Come on Swans knew that it was a risk. There was always a chance he'll change his mind. It's a pity that the kid lost out, it is, but it's not something Coney would have done on purpose and there was always a massive chance that the 18 year old would change his mind.

Kennelly has always said he's going home been very open about it and kept every bit of his word to the club, different class of character altogether.

My point is the drive to win an All Ireland medal is still there with him and Coney's drive is just as strong. His preformance and his leadership in the minor All Ireland final showed that. With respect you don't really know anything about the lad and to judge him on this is a bit harsh. Like I said it was a massive decision for him to make, he changed his mind, he didn't want to go. It's unfortunate that another young lad missed out, but if he's good he'll get back and the club knew full well that there was always a massive chance that this could happen.

Also Was'nt O'Hailpan a hurling player.... never understood how you picked up a player to cross codes from hurling to AFL, there not alike at all.
But they are alike. O hAilpin was the next best thing for Cork, in Ireland, a diamond like, Coney is the next best thing for Tyrone, massive potential. He could well line out for the seniors this year. He's an extraordinary young lad who has massive potential, just like Santy did, but like Santy it could be the case the he could go from being one of the most promising talents in his county to an average, even poor according to some, player.

At the end of the day, he changed his mind, he didn't want to leave his club, his county. He'd miss it too much, just too much to loose. It's unfortunate that a young lad missed out but don't think that Coney did it intentionally, he had a life changing decision to make and that's tough for anyone at any age, but for an 18 year old?? There was always a massive chance that he'd change his mind, he knew that, the club knew that.
You just can't set the thoughts of an 18 year old in stone when it comes to a massive life changing decision.
The club knew that.
I've no doubt that at the time Coney was happy to be at the club when he was and was looking forward to 2009 at the Swans. But then he went home for Christmas, it was then that things probably started to turn in his mind. Back with his club, his friends, his family. He watches the Minor final again, all these little things influenced him. He hadn't any intention to let some other young lad miss out, it just happened, he changed his mind. Which he was entitled to. What was the alternative, he went unhappy, homesick before he even left, miserable, that's not right, it in a way saved the club time and money on him. No point in him being there if he didn't want to be there and was homesick and miserable just because he signed a piece of paper.

His decision was a massive one that anyone would have struggled with, and taking into account that he's a young lad, I think his decision can be forgiven, or should be anyway.