Lake gone for late first round pick

[Slattery_20]

That's not really agreeing with me there, but OK I can see that POV

 

[Bulldog1954]

IA guy going on 31 only has a limited life-span, and limited trade value. I think you've done really well. Struggling to remember the last guy traded at 30+yo. I think it was Cornes & Brogan??? packaged together for a 3rd-to-2nd round upgrade?

Both of whom we're going to be delisted, Lake at worst was our third best player and only good key position

 

[Slattery_20]

Both of whom we're going to be delisted, Lake at worst was our third best player and only good key position

Yes, right now. Not 2-3 years away.

Holding on to 30 year olds at all costs is not the way forward.

 

[Mutt]

Yes, right now. Not 2-3 years away.

Holding on to 30 year olds at all costs is not the way forward.

You are making much more sense than most of our supporters and it's doing my head in Slatts. Piss off.

 

[stefoid]

We have to use pick 21 in the draft, not on Dawes, otherwise what was the point in upgrading it? 27 was already good enough for Dawes.

Still could be a 200 game player available at 22 in this draft

 

[Spectre]

Have thought about it, and I'm starting to see the method in the madness.

Macca has been all about 'team first' right from the jump. While I'm still filthy on the compensation we received, I think the speed and manner in which this deal was done actually was targetting Maccas message. Everytime the media got in their face about it, our management essentially said 'we asked Lake to play forward to help with team structure/development, he cracked the sads, now he's traded'. This is followed by an article stating that Roughy is now expected to hold down FB next year, publically rewarding and showing faith in those who changed their position for the team. It very well may that Macca is focusing on intangibles, ones that he thinks are more important than picks. Time will tell if he is correct.

 

[Mofra]

We have to use pick 21 in the draft, not on Dawes, otherwise what was the point in upgrading it? 27 was already good enough for Dawes.

Still could be a 200 game player available at 22 in this draft

I agree - a Membrey or Tim O'Brien type would make more than a few happy

 

[Paul Watson]

Hi Guys, Sorry for the intrusion. I remember when you guys went after Jade Rawlings and the hoops you were made to jump through by Hawthorn to get him there. I just think you had way more bargaining power than Hawthorn in this one a tougher negotiator wouldn't have given away pick 27 or would have possibly gotten a younger player as well. Is it just me or do the stronger clubs seem to do best of trade negotiations? Ball-Collingwood?

 

[TedDougChris]

Hi Guys, Sorry for the intrusion. I remember when you guys went after Jade Rawlings and the hoops you were made to jump through by Hawthorn to get him there. I just think you had way more bargaining power than Hawthorn in this one a tougher negotiator wouldn't have given away pick 27 or would have possibly gotten a younger player as well. Is it just me or do the stronger clubs seem to do best of trade negotiations? Ball-Collingwood?

Most of us won't disagree with you... We were bent over here.....

 

[dogwatch]

Hi Guys, Sorry for the intrusion. I remember when you guys went after Jade Rawlings and the hoops you were made to jump through by Hawthorn to get him there. I just think you had way more bargaining power than Hawthorn in this one a tougher negotiator wouldn't have given away pick 27 or would have possibly gotten a younger player as well. Is it just me or do the stronger clubs seem to do best of trade negotiations? Ball-Collingwood?

Crikey, don't start the mob baying again. It is what it is, and it's history now.

If you want to know the typical WB supporter's feelings on it I suggest you read back through this thread and through the last 300-400 posts on our drafts/trades thread.

Actually I'll make it easy for you and give you a synopsis:

• Stunned at the suddenness of it: 95%
• Angry we got rid of our only A-grade KPP: 50%
• Glad we made a timely and savvy trade-out of a "me" player on the wane: 30%
• On the fence/not too worried: 20%
• Get rid of Fantasia, JMcCartney and/or the whole friggin' board: 3.7%
• We got ripped off, didn't bargain hard enough: 40% (initially)
• Slept on it and now feeling not so bad about the terms of the trade: 15%
• We'll be bottom four next year: 95%
• Plus the usual drive-by trolls and queries or polite statements of congrats from other boards: 2%

 

[dogsbody]

.... I remember when you guys went after Jade Rawlings and the hoops you were made to jump through by Hawthorn to get him there. I just think you had way more bargaining power than Hawthorn in this one a tougher negotiator wouldn't have given away pick 27 or would have possibly gotten a younger player as well. Is it just me or do the stronger clubs seem to do best of trade negotiations? Ball-Collingwood?

All things otherwise being equal, the winner in a negotiation is the one who cares the least, who can say "take it or leave it." Hawthorn knew that Rawlings' knees were shot, Rohde needed a forward to save his career. Hawthorn won. That tells me that we were very keen to offload Lake, no matter what supporters think.

 

[Some Idiot]

Pretty disappointing trade...

 

[djp57]

Some time in 2013. New Years super draw thanks.

I reckon I am safe for a few weeks, if we had of got over the line against Port I would bought you that ticket. Now you are going to have to wait till about August 2013, and practise matches don't count!

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

Think I will pop in the last words on the trading of Lake.

We got him for pick 73, we got pick 22 for him at the end of his career (30yo) - Win
Depending on who we get with pick 22 - it could be another player who will be with us for 200 games - potential win
Western Bulldogs/Footscray has suffered from the worship of the individual other than sacrificing for the good of the team, it's the real reason why we have not won another premiership. Lake didn't want to do the team thing and go into the forward line and help the young players. Macca made a strong statement that the team is bigger than the individual - Win
If Hawthorn don't end up winning the premiership next year - it is a big loss for them, they could have picked up a good player in a strong draft - potential Win
Macca has faith in our young inexperienced back line, and recognises that the more experience they get, they better they will become (wish some of our supporters would understand this) long term win
We have freed up salary cap to chase some of the youngsters from GC and GWS when they come out of contract (as Macca has already suggested) Win

Summary, it's one of those time will tell decisions, but I back Macca in making an example of Lake to our young players.

 

[dogsbody]

...Summary, it's one of those time will tell decisions, but I back Macca in making an example of Lake to our young players.

The speed at which the trade was done says a lot.

 

[Dav1d]

Not having a go at Lake; but I hope it is the same mistake they'd made getting Cameron Bruce whom I think was All Australian the year before. Maybe another reason the trade went like it did.

 

[Jean Claude Vas Deferens]

I sincerely hope it's a win/win for both clubs. I don't want Hawthorn supporters viewing Lake in the same vein that they saw Cameron Bruce. I hope we draft a keeper at pick 22 who ends up playing a long and distinguished career for us. Flags included obviously! And, (not that I particularly like the Hawks) I would be more than happy if Lakey went on to play in a Premiership for Hawthorn.... or at the very least hold up their back line for the next year or two. I hope he plays well for them.

 

[GetDimmaBack]

Think I will pop in the last words on the trading of Lake.

We got him for pick 73, we got pick 22 for him at the end of his career (30yo) - Win

Summary, it's one of those time will tell decisions, but I back Macca in making an example of Lake to our young players.

Great post, DRB. Also, good post Dogsbody.

You guys are right on the mark!

This club has been about individuals for too long. My father said, in the 1960s, that the club would never win a premiership while everyone played for themselves. When things got even a little bit tough, they all played to keep their spots for next week, he said. That has changed only momentarily over the years.

If Lake didn't want to play the team game in earlier times, the club would've caved in and agreed to play him where he wanted to be. How great is it that McCartney has said "see ya later" to someone with that attitude? After all, young players' attitudes are generally formed from watching the senior players (unless you're Nafan Brown, of course ).

I think McCartney has really put the example out there with Lake - got him out quickly so his negative affect could be minimized. Remember, Lake said he was going to Hawthorn to win a premiership, not to make it a better club. The Dogs no longer want blokes like that.

Finally!!

 

[Sedat!]

Depending on who we get with pick 22 - it could be another player who will be with us for 200 games - potential win

Irrespective of the fact that we might select another Jesse Wells at pick 22 like we did 10 years ago, you also need to factor in who Hawthorn will get with their pick 29 - this early 2nd round pick was initially ours and was ulitmately given back to Hawthorn as part of the Lake trade (swapsies with GWS on the Gilham trade notwithstanding). The actual extra pick we received on the Lake trade (pick 41 which became 44 after FA compensation) for was used to get Kobe Stevens. So it's pick 22 and Stevens vs pick 29 and Lake that will determine the winner of this trade.

 

[100action]

Irrespective of the fact that we might select another Jesse Wells at pick 22 like we did 10 years ago, you also need to factor in who Hawthorn will get with their pick 29 - this early 2nd round pick was initially ours and was ulitmately given back to Hawthorn as part of the Lake trade (swapsies with GWS on the Gilham trade notwithstanding). The actual extra pick we received on the Lake trade (pick 41 which became 44 after FA compensation) for was used to get Kobe Stevens. So it's pick 22 and Stevens vs pick 29 and Lake that will determine the winner of this trade.

You also need to take into account Lake's douche bag factor*, and how it would inhibit and compromise the culture and environment McCartneys trying to build.

*ie poor attitude in VFL, having a sook when asked to play forward, low intelligence and refusal to accept responsibility (refused to pay his end of a failed child's play centre business)

I get the feeling Macca was trying to offload him ASAP.

 

[dogsbody]

Me too

You also need to take into account Lake's douche bag factor*, and how it would inhibit and compromise the culture and environment McCartneys trying to build.

*ie poor attitude in VFL, having a sook when asked to play forward, low intelligence and refusal to accept responsibility (refused to pay his end of a failed child's play centre business)

I get the feeling Macca was trying to offload him ASAP.

When the club had blokes like Grant, Smith, Johnson, Darcy - solid citizens and role models, it prospered - those blokes were part of 2 genuine tilts in 15 years. Unless McCartney is a master spinner, then he's on the right track.

 

[Butane]

Me too

When the club had blokes like Grant, Smith, Johnson, Darcy - solid citizens and role models, it prospered - those blokes were part of 2 genuine tilts in 15 years. Unless McCartney is a master spinner, then he's on the right track.

Hopefully the club will show strong resolve in 2014 when McCartney's contract is up and we will most likely still be in the bottom cluster of clubs. The vision he has in mind will take longer than a few years from now to come to fruition but I agree that it's the right one.

 

[stmookeyj]

We have freed up salary cap to chase some of the youngsters from GC and GWS when they come out of contract (as Macca has already suggested) Win

Until we realise we need that space to free up OUR youngsters first........

 

[stefoid]

Irrespective of the fact that we might select another Jesse Wells at pick 22 like we did 10 years ago, you also need to factor in who Hawthorn will get with their pick 29 - this early 2nd round pick was initially ours and was ulitmately given back to Hawthorn as part of the Lake trade (swapsies with GWS on the Gilham trade notwithstanding). The actual extra pick we received on the Lake trade (pick 41 which became 44 after FA compensation) for was used to get Kobe Stevens. So it's pick 22 and Stevens vs pick 29 and Lake that will determine the winner of this trade.

dont really care how the hawks go with Lake - its what we do with the magic beans we got for the cow that counts.

 

[TMoney22]

I'm a bit lost in how i feel on this. Lake is my favourite player but i totally understand trading him. However what we got back isn't enough. As a negotiator you have to look from both sides. We are virtually giving the Hawks a premiership, surely that is worth more than an upgrade and speculative pick.
.

I'm very happy with Hrovat and Stevens, and with Lake getting a premiership/Norm Smith. But I couldn't help remembering this post all yesterday. Could we have got more?