Let's talk Ports! Part 3

[VineValerian]

Fair point, plus the Magarey medal has been seriously devalued as well, I suspect some of the winners in the 2000's would have struggled to get a vote if they were around in the Ebert and Robran era.

Yep.
I mean the likes of Cross, Allen, Sheedy, Grigg, et al - handy players no doubt. But you'd think either of Barrie, Russ, Carman, Blight, etc would have won 7 or 8 MM's in the current standard comp.

 

[Interstater]

Some strong arguments made, so how do we get the best of both worlds.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Some strong arguments made, so how do we get the best of both worlds.

By regaining control of our club and sacking anyone who doesn't live the creed.

We need 12 million in escrow only to be released when we are given back our club.

 

[Grave Danger]

I need someone to convince me that we should have a side in the AFL.
I'm wavering on this argument and Case 2 is looking more attractive again.

Case 1: Port in the AFL as an AFL controlled franchise + an AFLW Franchise + a SANFL side which is effectively an AFL reserves side.
Wearing the chevrons with teal.
Players on big salaries.
The club always "in debt".

vs

Case 2: Port sides in the SANFL men's and women's comps with full control of the club, proper reserves and underage sides, our own zones again.
Wearing the PB's.
Players leaving to the AFL.

Please convince me that Case 1 is better.
Otherwise maybe I should just shut up and die and leave the club to the happy fappers to enjoy Case 1.

I just can't engage with Case 1 anymore.

We'd need a huge new building to hang all the premiership flags - surely we'd have over 50 by now!

 

[tribey]

How are the Eagles only credited with 4? Surely they directly inherit West Torrens's 4 solo flags - I'm not counting 1942 lol.

Not sure, but perhaps because Woodville (nil flags, obviously) was actually the dominant partner in the merger? Torrens was all but insolvent.

St George-Illawarra did the same thing, starting from scratch. Quite strange given the former’s glittering history.

 

[Duck Farmer]

In an alternate universe Tredrea is a Carlton legend, Travis Boak a Geelong legend, Wakelin with St Kilda, Michael Wilson a shinboner, Darren Mead goes to Essendon, Wanganeen stays at Essendon. Pickett stays at North, Brad Ebert stays at West Coast. The Cornes brothers are Crow legends, Peter Burgoyne in a Hawthorn jumper playing with his brother. Robbie Gray in another clubs jumper, I don’t want to think about it.

OTOH, Ken Hinkley assistant coach at GC17.

 

[Alberton Proud]

I need someone to convince me that we should have a side in the AFL.
I'm wavering on this argument and Case 2 is looking more attractive again.

Case 1: Port in the AFL as an AFL controlled franchise + an AFLW Franchise + a SANFL side which is effectively an AFL reserves side.
Wearing the chevrons with teal.
Players on big salaries.
The club always "in debt".

vs

Case 2: Port sides in the SANFL men's and women's comps with full control of the club, proper reserves and underage sides, our own zones again.
Wearing the PB's.
Players leaving to the AFL.

Please convince me that Case 1 is better.
Otherwise maybe I should just shut up and die and leave the club to the happy fappers to enjoy Case 1.

I just can't engage with Case 1 anymore.

Case 3
If we’re not in the AFL then Noord or Sturt would be
Give me Option 1 any day and twice on Sundays

 

[VineValerian]

Case 3
If we’re not in the AFL then Noord or Sturt would be
Give me Option 1 any day and twice on Sundays

Option 4.
We have sides in the AFL, AFLW and SANFL and win all 3

 

[chiwigi]

I need someone to convince me that we should have a side in the AFL.
I'm wavering on this argument and Case 2 is looking more attractive again.

Case 1: Port in the AFL as an AFL controlled franchise + an AFLW Franchise + a SANFL side which is effectively an AFL reserves side.
Wearing the chevrons with teal.
Players on big salaries.
The club always "in debt".

vs

Case 2: Port sides in the SANFL men's and women's comps with full control of the club, proper reserves and underage sides, our own zones again.
Wearing the PB's.
Players leaving to the AFL.

Please convince me that Case 1 is better.
Otherwise maybe I should just shut up and die and leave the club to the happy fappers to enjoy Case 1.

I just can't engage with Case 1 anymore.

Case 2 is literally getting rid of all senior football and effectively becoming and amateur team with zero ambition.

One of those clubs that stacks the Reserves and 3rds sides to win a regular flag, but hasn’t won a first grade flag and never will!

We all know a club like it!

 

[GremioPower]

Not sure, but perhaps because Woodville (nil flags, obviously) was actually the dominant partner in the merger? Torrens was all but insolvent.

St George-Illawarra did the same thing, starting from scratch. Quite strange given the former’s glittering history.

Bears and Fitzroy, too. None makes sense to me, tbh.

 

[GremioPower]

Port sides in the SANFL men's and women's comps with full control of the club, proper reserves and underage sides, our own zones again.
Wearing the PB's.

I have a dream of sending our reserves to the VFL and, then, regaining our zones in the SANFL.

The Magpies would be independent of the Power, but within the Port Adelaide umbrella.

 

[GremioPower]

Not sure, but perhaps because Woodville (nil flags, obviously) was actually the dominant partner in the merger? Torrens was all but insolvent.

St George-Illawarra did the same thing, starting from scratch. Quite strange given the former’s glittering history.

tribey, one famous case in Brazil also decided to start from scratch: Paraná Clube.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraná_Clube

It’s famous because Paraná is a merger between two clubs who were result of mergers:

Água Verde + Savóia = Pinheiros
Britânia + Ferroviário + Palestra Itália = Colorado

Colorado + Pinheiros = Paraná

 

[chiwigi]

Bears and Fitzroy, too. None makes sense to me, tbh.

They are new teams when merged.
Both original teams cease to exist and a new one is created.

 

[GremioPower]

They are new teams when merged.
Both original teams cease to exist and a new one is created.

Yes, but the new one is not created from nothing. It should inherit its parenting clubs’ history — just like it does with other goods.

 

[1954]

Case 2 is literally getting rid of all senior football and effectively becoming and amateur team with zero ambition.

One of those clubs that stacks the Reserves and 3rds sides to win a regular flag, but hasn’t won a first grade flag and never will!

We all know a club like it!

In the mid to late 1960's as soon as they were out of league finals contention Norwood, North and W Torrens were known for stacking their magoos with regular league players.
From memory the deadlegs won a number of reserve's flags in that era and the early 1970's with numerous 25-28 year olds, many of whom had played most of the season in the A grade.

 

[GremioPower]

In the mid to late 1960's as soon as they were out of league finals contention Norwood, North and W Torrens were known for stacking their magoos with regular league players.
From memory the deadlegs won a number of reserve's flags in that era and the early 1970's with numerous 25-28 year olds, many of whom had played most of the season in the A grade.

It actually makes sense. Meanwhile, the reserves were getting minutes playing in the top league.

 

[1954]

It actually makes sense. Meanwhile, the reserves were getting minutes playing in the top league.

Usually that would be a reasonable point GP, but Norwood hadn't won a flag with their senior team since 1950 and appeared desperate for some silver ware even though it was only at magoo's level, and they used to regularly stack their B's with league players only weeks before the finals.

The qualification rules were obviously different then, plus maybe I was too cynical.

 

[chiwigi]

Yes, but the new one is not created from nothing. It should inherit its parenting clubs’ history — just like it does with other goods.

That would be ludicrous, so if Port and Norwood merged in the SANFL the new club could claim 60 Premierships?

The only reason it’s ever considered is often they are two s**t teams that merge.

Nah, once you merge the original entities cease to exist and a completely néw one is created.

Once you’ve added egg and flour to the mix you no longer have egg and flour, but a cake.

The old teams records stand, but they are frozen in time.

 

[chiwigi]

It actually makes sense. Meanwhile, the reserves were getting minutes playing in the top league.

No it doesn’t, they are chasing premierships, they don’t care which level because they aren’t good enough at first grade.
It’s pretty pathetic using first grade players at lower grades to do this.
It’s like having your under 15’s playing under 13’s.

 

[Portology]

They are new teams when merged.
Both original teams cease to exist and a new one is created.

Pure corporate language is limiting here. Clubs predate the companies that run them now so the language has to cater for "club" as a thing.

IMO if it's two living entities, a merger is a merger even on unequal or asymmetric terms (WT<->Woodville). So I've no issue with the WWT Eagles claiming the old Torrens flags.

But if one entity is no longer around... picking over things left behind in a vacated office (Lions->Bears="Lions") is a major asset purchase, not a "merger". It inevitably changed the purchaser, but you don't really buy the history of bones you're picking over. So the Lions shouldn't claim the FFC flags.

Our "OneClub" didn't form a new club, it brought two living entities back together. So we got to claim 1997-98 as "ours" and when we leave the SANFL they will still be ours in the same sense that the living rump FFC in the VFA can claim their old VFL history - even if they left physical memorabilia behind with the office scavengers from Queensland.

That would be ludicrous, so if Port and Norwood merged in the SANFL the new club could claim 60 Premierships?

The old teams records stand, but they are frozen in time.

Yes a merged club would own the history of both clubs. Yes that impossible scenario would make a total mockery of the SANFL's existence which I don't see as problematic BTW Now if Norwood went bust or left the SANFL for SAAFL and we bought leftover assets including bits of flesh off their playing list and even changed the name of our SANFL team to "Redlegs"... then no, we don't get to claim the history.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Attn PAFC, just in case someone tries it on, this is not an original Indigenous Round guernsey design

 

[Malibu#27]

Unlikely to be complete before next season (probably subject to me getting busy elsewhere ... and very much subject to change as I learn) ... But I'm designing my own Power themed pinball table to play in my cabinet.
Image below is a screen-capture mid game configured to display on a single screen for now. MY photoshop skills unfortunately lacking at times, but I'll get there I hope.

 

[70sDinosaur]

They were the collingwood of the Sanfl in the 1970s and 80s. Played in a lot of grand finals and lost most of them and only missed 3 or 4 years of finals over about 25 years.

Lost GF 1969-70-74-75-77-81-82-87-88-90-92
5 to Port, 3 to Sturt, 2 to Norwood, 1 to North.
Beat North 3 times 73-85-86

Coll between premierships 1958 and 1990 lost GF 1959-60-64-66-70-77-79-80-81

Another statistic that I always found interesting was that from 1962-1990 there were only two SANFL GFs that didn't feature at least one of Port or Glenelg in them. The two exceptions were Sturt-Norwood in 1978 and West-Sturt in 1983.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

 

[simba_]

the youngest ever AND first aboriginal? that's an oxymoron!