2nds Lions Reserves 2011

[Balony_pony16]

The reality is Mickey that he's a first-year player who's shown glimpses but is obviously lacking in some things that the coaches want to see. Being a #4 draft pick does not entitle you to anything.

I think that considering the trade blunder which vossy has taken ownership of, we needed to make sure we got the #5 pick right. It needs to remmebered that we had pick 11 or so but use the brennan trade with GC to upgrade that pick to 5 instead of having pick 11? and another top 15 pick...they took the game of having 1 top 15 pick instead of 2 so they could get a elite young kid...they passed on Heppell for Polec...as long as Polec struggles in the QAFL after dominating the SANFL questions will be asked...especially when you consider he is a SA boy on a 2 year contract. We need to get him up to speed somehow

 

[Mr Ripper]

Hasn't helped Jared that I don't think he's played in a match yet where our inside mids have been competitive, firsts or seconds. Maybe the first part of the Melbourne game, and he looked the goods then!

 

[The Flying Belgian]

I think that considering the trade blunder which vossy has taken ownership of, we needed to make sure we got the #5 pick right.

Drafting right or right now. The drafting of an 18 yo should never be about getting the most out of him in the first year. He's played 3 out of the first 8 games. I'm not sure what people expect.

Judge it 3 years down the track. It's not about instant gratification.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Hardly earth-shattering news, but we've just lost one of our assistant coaches:

SETON-LONSDALE IS NEW REDLAND COACH

 

[Sanchez365]

I think that considering the trade blunder which vossy has taken ownership of, we needed to make sure we got the #5 pick right. It needs to remmebered that we had pick 11 or so but use the brennan trade with GC to upgrade that pick to 5 instead of having pick 11? and another top 15 pick...they took the game of having 1 top 15 pick instead of 2 so they could get a elite young kid...they passed on Heppell for Polec...as long as Polec struggles in the QAFL after dominating the SANFL questions will be asked...especially when you consider he is a SA boy on a 2 year contract. We need to get him up to speed somehow

From what I can tell the Brennan Trade was this:

Bewick + Draft Picks #5, #25, #27 for Brennan + Picks #10 #48 End of first round compensation pick.

I don't see where in that situation we had two picks in the top 15. Not to mention we managed to get a good player in Bewick to replace Brennan, upgrade our pick #10 -> #5 and still have the same number of draft picks as before (perhaps better with picks #25 + #27 > #10 + #48). That trade is a mega win for me.

Regardless while Heppell has been playing great in Essendon's back half, our backline has been performing exceptionally well and who would you take out to put him in there? If you were planning on playing him in the midfield there is no proof that he is ready to play in that position yet (I haven't heard anything about him playing midfield for Essendon) and we might be having the same conversation with Heppell playing in the reserves and Polec playing as a half back for a team with space in their Defensive unit.

Either way we have to have faith that Polec will come good and that he is working on things at his own pace. At the moment his form in the reserves shouldn't be making us demand his selection and until hes performing there why would he be elevated? How angry would you be if you were Green who was getting BOG's in the 2nd's and wasn't given a chance in the 1st's because the selection committee didn't want the footy world to think they had picked a spud instead of Heppell?

 

[Balony_pony16]

Drafting right or right now. The drafting of an 18 yo should never be about getting the most out of him in the first year. He's played 3 out of the first 8 games. I'm not sure what people expect.

Judge it 3 years down the track. It's not about instant gratification.

hmmm...thats right. But concerns are raising with his preformance in the QAFL or what ever they call it these days.

If he wasnt getting a game but holding his own, or dominating the local league like he should them people would be happy...the fact that he has stalled in the ressies is a concern

 

[Judge]

I think that considering the trade blunder which vossy has taken ownership of, we needed to make sure we got the #5 pick right. It needs to remmebered that we had pick 11 or so but use the brennan trade with GC to upgrade that pick to 5 instead of having pick 11? and another top 15 pick...they took the game of having 1 top 15 pick instead of 2 so they could get a elite young kid...they passed on Heppell for Polec...as long as Polec struggles in the QAFL after dominating the SANFL questions will be asked...especially when you consider he is a SA boy on a 2 year contract. We need to get him up to speed somehow

As I recall, you were a huge fan of Polec (and Brodie Smith) at draft time.

Why are you panicking about Polec 2 months into his first season? We've all seen videos of the SANFL finals you saw him play, seems to me that you should feel more assured about him than the rest of us, given your first-hand experience. You don't lose class or ability, confidence or form is obviously different.

Give him some time mate.

 

[Balony_pony16]

From what I can tell the Brennan Trade was this:

Bewick + Draft Picks #5, #25, #27 for Brennan + Picks #10 #48 End of first round compensation pick.

I don't see where in that situation we had two picks in the top 15. Not to mention we managed to get a good player in Bewick to replace Brennan, upgrade our pick #10 -> #5 and still have the same number of draft picks as before (perhaps better with picks #25 + #27 > #10 + #48). That trade is a mega win for me.

Regardless while Heppell has been playing great in Essendon's back half, our backline has been performing exceptionally well and who would you take out to put him in there? If you were planning on playing him in the midfield there is no proof that he is ready to play in that position yet (I haven't heard anything about him playing midfield for Essendon) and we might be having the same conversation with Heppell playing in the reserves and Polec playing as a half back for a team with space in their Defensive unit.

Either way we have to have faith that Polec will come good and that he is working on things at his own pace. At the moment his form in the reserves shouldn't be making us demand his selection and until hes performing there why would he be elevated? How angry would you be if you were Green who was getting BOG's in the 2nd's and wasn't given a chance in the 1st's because the selection committee didn't want the footy world to think they had picked a spud instead of Heppell?

Last time I check Stiller is playing HB...and he is the #1 whipping boy this year...heppell adds drummond like drive from the defense

 

[Balony_pony16]

As I recall, you were a huge fan of Polec (and Brodie Smith) at draft time.

Why are you panicking about Polec 2 months into his first season? We've all seen videos of the SANFL finals you saw him play, seems to me that you should feel more assured about him than the rest of us, given your first-hand experience. You don't lose class or ability, confidence or form is obviously different.

Give him some time mate.

mate I still am...I am just concerned that something has gone wrong....homesickness? Poor coaching/development? eitherway...he would have high expectations and himself would be concerned with his lack of opportunity and poor form in the ressies...I am worried that come the end of next year when out of contract he may reconsider his position at the lions...yes I know it is early...but like I said, if he was playing good footy in the ressies then I and others wouldnt be so nervous...but something isnt right.

Im not going to say it is Polec fault or the lions coaches...just something is wrong if his form is way of like suggested.

Remember, I am one of the many that strongly suggest we get games into him...I am very Pro Polec. But I have been shot down suggesting that Polec's form is very average and doesnt deserve a go...hence why I am asking the questions "what has gone wrong"

 

[Balony_pony16]

Hare and the Tortoise?
Rich and Hill?

Try not to lose too much sleep, I am certainly not.

both rich and hill are "hares" when you think about it mate...poor example

 

[Gibbo_88]

mate I still am...I am just concerned that something has gone wrong....homesickness? Poor coaching/development? eitherway...he would have high expectations and himself would be concerned with his lack of opportunity and poor form in the ressies...I am worried that come the end of next year when out of contract he may reconsider his position at the lions...yes I know it is early...but like I said, if he was playing good footy in the ressies then I and others wouldnt be so nervous...but something isnt right.

Im not going to say it is Polec fault or the lions coaches...just something is wrong if his form is way of like suggested.

Remember, I am one of the many that strongly suggest we get games into him...I am very Pro Polec. But I have been shot down suggesting that Polec's form is very average and doesnt deserve a go...hence why I am asking the questions "what has gone wrong"

You've been carrying on about Polec for a while now and no matter what people say, their answer isn't good enough for you to drop it and realise that you're creating something out of nothing. A few people have already given you examples of why he isn't playing in the seniors and why he isn't dominating at reserves level. He's been in Brisbane for 6 months, played a bit of senior footy, looked a bit lost at times and knows he has to work harder.

 

[Sanchez365]

Last time I check Stiller is playing HB...and he is the #1 whipping boy this year...heppell adds drummond like drive from the defense

Stiller hasn't been playing badly in my eyes, but yes at the same time he isn't setting the world on fire. He is filling a role at this point. More importantly however the back line as a unit has been the only thing stopping us from a few 100pt thumpings and Stiller has been part of this unit. With a lot of personal changing in the midfield and a merry go round of targets up forward, changing a setteled, working backline would only result in us being even less competative.

Perhaps we would be better off with Heppell in this role instead of Stiller but the development of Hanley and Adcock is more then covering our drive from defence at the moment.

Bottom line is that Polec seems like a very confident young kid who clearly has a lot of talent and sooner or later he's going to light it up in the ressies and then earn his place in the ones and be all the better for it.

 

[Quigley]

both rich and hill are "hares" when you think about it mate...poor example

Rocky is perhaps a better example

 

[Balony_pony16]

You've been carrying on about Polec for a while now and no matter what people say, their answer isn't good enough for you to drop it and realise that you're creating something out of nothing. A few people have already given you examples of why he isn't playing in the seniors and why he isn't dominating at reserves level. He's been in Brisbane for 6 months, played a bit of senior footy, looked a bit lost at times and knows he has to work harder.

So what i have an strong interest in where polec is at with his football. I think the discussions on him have been good and quite constructive...yes i have posted on this topic, as ot interests me...no need to hound posters and pick fights. I see people engage in various topics which can last weeks...but i dont go all precious and try and dictate others opinions.

 

[Hollow Knight]

He'll come good. Form is temporary, class is permanent.

 

[Dylan12]

I am worried that come the end of next year when out of contract he may reconsider his position at the lions...yes I know it is early...but like I said, if he was playing good footy in the ressies then I and others wouldnt be so nervous...but something isnt right.

I don't think there is much to worry about at this stage. I will stand corrected, but I don't think you could provide many examples across the league where first or second round draft picks drafted outside their state of origin have left, regardless if it was for a lack of game time, homesickness or any other reason. Not saying it couldn't happen, but can you provide any examples to date?

 

[dlanod]

*cough*Des Headland*cough*?

 

[_hyphy]

Buckley springs to mind.

 

[Dylan12]

*cough*Des Headland*cough*?

I actually meant to qualify my post by saying after their first two years or first contract.

As for Buckley, he stated from the outset as did Anthony Rocca that they intended on leaving after their initial contract before having even played a game.

 

[Balony_pony16]

I don't think there is much to worry about at this stage. I will stand corrected, but I don't think you could provide many examples across the league where first or second round draft picks drafted outside their state of origin have left, regardless if it was for a lack of game time, homesickness or any other reason. Not saying it couldn't happen, but can you provide any examples to date?

I see your point mate... but im not out to compare polecs situation with stats of past 1st round picks. The fact is that he would hardly be rushing to sign on with the lions if he is struggling in the ressies. And rookies only have 2 year contracts...consider thst brodie smith would have played 20-30 games by the end of next year and he is almost a polec clone....somehow the crows have him up and running, but the lions have so far failed to get polec at least dominant in the ressies. Is this a case of bad homesickness...who knows.

The fact is that polec has the skill and ability to be playing regular afl by now like the atley, conca, heppell, smiths....etc...i find it amazing that people shoot down my concerns

 

[Dylan12]

but im not out to compare polecs situation with stats of past 1st round picks.

I hear your concerns BP and as you rightly point out, not every situation is the same. Ideally I wshed Polec had played every game to date too and would be lying if I was not a little concerned. Interestingly, I was listening to SEN prior to the TV coverage and Staker was interviewed and was questioned about Polec. Staker said that the club wanted Polec to work on the defensive aspects of his game, sounds familiar, and whilst the club was happy with his offensive game and acknowledged what a weopon this aspect of his game was, his defensive side was still lacking. All fair points I think for Polec's position, but he won't be far away and at least he is aware and conscious of that aspect of his game and no doubt will be better for it when he does play seniors.

 

[Balony_pony16]

I hear your concerns BP and as you rightly point out, not every situation is the same. Ideally I wshed Polec had played every game to date too and would be lying if I was not a little concerned. Interestingly, I was listening to SEN prior to the TV coverage and Staker was interviewed and was questioned about Polec. Staker said that the club wanted Polec to work on the defensive aspects of his game, sounds familiar, and whilst the club was happy with his offensive game and acknowledged what a weopon this aspect of his game was, his defensive side was still lacking. All fair points I think for Polec's position, but he won't be far away and at least he is aware and conscious of that aspect of his game and no doubt will be better for it when he does play seniors.

Yeah i guess we will have to wait and see if he gets up to speed and start showing the potential we all know he has.

On the "defensive pressure" thing....i understand that, but it just concerns me when i get the impression from people who attend ressie games that he has no impact offensively or defensively. Compare the situation with taylor walker...he got sent back to sanfl to work on his "defensive pressure" and still maintain a offensive game slamming home 6+ goals a game. That would maintain confidance with crows supporters.

Still, im starting to get confused with posters here. I was one of the many people demanding that voss start including polec asap for hos rebuild...but was slammed with people commenting on how average he has been in the ressies...then i ask questions how he could go from a dominant sanfl player whilst tagged by josh carr likes to a disappointment in the qafl, and start getting hasselled by posters.

 

[Dylan12]

Still, im starting to get confused with posters here. I was one of the many people demanding that voss start including polec asap for hos rebuild...but was slammed with people commenting on how average he has been in the ressies...then i ask questions how he could go from a dominant sanfl player whilst tagged by josh carr likes to a disappointment in the qafl, and start getting hasselled by posters.

Keep speaking your mind BP and don't get discouraged if others don't share your views. That is the beauty of BF and occasionally someone does open your eyes to a different school of thought.

I can't comment on Polec's form in the reserves as I have only been to all games here in Melbourne, however, I recall his pre-season game against the Dogs at Princess Park and he was well off the pace and very small against the mature bodies of the Dogs. I suppose it is all about impact and maybe the club doubts his ability at this stage to do so. I probably would have liked him to play a few more gams as a sub once the sting went out of the game like Gaff, but you could then make the argument as to whether that really serves his overall development. I would say that those who actually get along to the ressies would be a lot more qualified to judge whether he warrants a game but I still think we will see him play another 8 or so games this year.

 

[Mr Ripper]

You now have about 2 1/2 hours left in which to get your collective acres out to Sherwood to observe the following squadron running around in Lions gear versus (kiddies) Labrador:

B: B Moorhead, B Harvey, C Mitchell-Hill
HB: A Raines, N McKeever, M Golby
C: M Green, R Newell, X Clarke
HF: P Karnezis, M Maguire, J Fox
F: J Dyson, A Cornelius, D Barry
R: B McCulloch, R Harwood, A Buchanan:
I/C from: T Colburn, D Frame, J Parkes, S Turner, B Thomas, L Woods-Honour, T Flynn, G Fozard.

Hopefully none of the Crazy Vozzy brigade clock the side.

I'm on headcold medication.

 

[jackess]

Buchanann, Clarke, Raines and Maguire in the side. Not a great endorsement for Vossys trading.