News List Changes - Thank you LOB, Honey & Philp

[Garters]

You really wanna do this?

No not at all, just got sucked in during a fleeting moment of weakness.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

Thanks gents for your services.

 

[Beyond Blue]

Lob will go on to be a very good player at another club. Joining Stocker as another afl quality player let go for nothing.

I’m not losing much sleep over Stocker. 3 coaches have now considered him not good enough to play as a midfielder which was the position he played as a junior. He simply isn’t good enough defensively to play as a small back in a contending side.

IMO LOB is done. Some club might throw him a lifeline now he has been delisted and won’t cost anything in trade capital and be on a base wage. Even so his deficiencies are just too much to overlook for a team that wants to be a contender.

Of the guys we let go Philp is the only one I’d be worried could go on to be a good player in a good team, although even that’s a marginal call given his injury history and deficiency with fumbling. That said good luck to them all I hope they can make it.

 

[jj1978]

didn't see much of philp but obviously had a terrible time with injury. such bad luck to land a spot but through no fault of your own, don't even get a chance to stake your claim in the team. unfortunate cameron giles vibes.

honey certainly had the physical attributes, but not a lot of the ball. may have had the makings of the power mid/forward most sides would like to have. wouldn't be surprised to see it all come together for him and he cracks the game open at a lower level and gets another chance.

lob had a pretty solid career, played some decent footy before being overtaken by others. likewise, no surprises if he were to play some solid footy in another afl side. may need to grow a beard and/or sport a buzz cut.

best of luck, all

Get some Tatts and maybe can replace Ginnivan in the Pies side.

 

[bigblueboy]

I was hugely disappointed with Stocker’s departure from Carlton … but I’ve seen nothing in the past 12 months that tells me he will be a consistent AFL defender.
Our delistings this week were no surprise and I don’t expect any of them to come back to bite us.

 

[CsBlue]

If he does, it'll be great for him but I suspect that he'll end up having to earn another gig via the VFL.
Each of those delisted has some AFL level attributes but also some clear deficiencies & as disappointing as this no doubt is for them, they can still make it & I doubt that anyone would begrudge them if they do.

Won’t begrudge lob of course, the same with stocker. But I will begrudge the list management letting good players go for no value in return.

And why shouldn’t they be held accountable for performance in their role when running our club.

 

[thylacine60]

Won’t begrudge lob of course, the same with stocker. But I will begrudge the list management letting good players go for no value in return.

And why shouldn’t they be held accountable for performance in their role when running our club.

Because it's their job, they have made decisions based on requirements, negotiations, advice & experience. You're simply a disgruntled supporter with an ineffectual opinion having a bleat. They owe you zero.

 

[CsBlue]

Because it's their job, they have made decisions based on requirements, negotiations, advice & experience. You're simply a disgruntled supporter with an ineffectual opinion having a bleat. They owe you zero.

Pay our memberships, shut up, and celebrate their every move. That the way?

They are not the club, they are running our club, and they should be held accountable for performance in their roles.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Won’t begrudge lob of course, the same with stocker. But I will begrudge the list management letting good players go for no value in return.

And why shouldn’t they be held accountable for performance in their role when running our club.

You assume that the players had value. The reality is, that may not have been the case.

Sometimes players are only appealing because they fill a short term need and they cost nothing. It's quite literally the whole point of Delisted Free Agents. Stocker didn't even get picked up as a DFA or via the draft, he was a last minute SSP signing in January which would indicate that the Saints wanted to see more of him in their own sessions before committing to him.

Decent players get delisted every year, from every club, ours is no different. Not much point gnashing your teeth because Austin didn't dig his heels in and demand Pick 80.

 

[El Topo]

Sign of progress when these are the types getting cut - all three looked like serious players at one stage with us

 

[El Topo]

You assume that the players had value. The reality is, that may not have been the case.

Sometimes players are only appealing because of the astronomical opportunity cost of the pick swap that brought them to the club

 

[CsBlue]

You assume that the players had value. The reality is, that may not have been the case.

Sometimes players are only appealing because they fill a short term need and they cost nothing. It's quite literally the whole point of Delisted Free Agents. Stocker didn't even get picked up as a DFA or via the draft, he was a last minute SSP signing in January which would indicate that the Saints wanted to see more of him in their own sessions before committing to him.

Decent players get delisted every year, from every club, ours is no different. Not much point gnashing your teeth because Austin didn't dig his heels in and demand Pick 80.

Fair post. At what point in stocker’s career/achievements do you call it an error then? I’ve argued the point it was an error immediately, others said he wouldn’t play another game. He’s a great prospect just entering his prime.

 

[Bletch]

Fair post. At what point in stocker’s career/achievements do you call it an error then? I’ve argued the point it was an error immediately, others said he wouldn’t play another game. He’s a great prospect just entering his prime.

Out of interest, if he won the next 5 Brownlows, but we won the next 5 flags, what would you call it?

There's such a thing as a win-win result. I hope he does well (except against us), and enjoys a long career. But even then, it doesn't necessarily mean a failure on our part. Sometimes a change is needed for a player to flourish - and sometimes teams have a surplus of AFL-quality players in specific roles. It's dubious as to whether he would have seen a lot of playing time this year in our backline, he's getting some at the Saints, good on him.

 

[El Topo]

The Stocker pick trade was - in hindsight - a blunder on par with Kristian Jaksch

Kristian Jaksch

Age

29

Ht

195cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.4

2star

K

6.4

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.5

4star

T

1.3

3star

MG

212.6

3star

No current season stats available

D

7.4

2star

K

5.2

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.2

3star

. He's an oppo player now, it's time to let him go.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Fair post. At what point in stocker’s career/achievements do you call it an error then? I’ve argued the point it was an error immediately, others said he wouldn’t play another game. He’s a great prospect just entering his prime.

Liam Stocker? The back pocket that was the sub for the saints in their losing elim final?

Maybe John Stocker the jockey. He was good.

Liam I wish every success, but we've seen his ceiling and its not that high. Last I heard he was still unsigned by the saints next year, although they thought that he'd get another 1 year contract.

It was poor recruiting by us to recruit someone who was unlikely to be able to play midfield as a midfielder. Fortunately the Crows collapsed and it didn't hurt us as much as it might have.

 

[Aphrodite]

Fair post. At what point in stocker’s career/achievements do you call it an error then? I’ve argued the point it was an error immediately, others said he wouldn’t play another game. He’s a great prospect just entering his prime.

Stocker discussion does not belong in this thread.
Belongs in AFL General Discussion.



Stay on topic thanks.

List Changes - Thank you LOB, Honey & Philp​

 

[SurreyBlue]

Sounds like it’s time to erect a statue of Austin…….…

 

[Blue__Balls]

Fair post. At what point in stocker’s career/achievements do you call it an error then? I’ve argued the point it was an error immediately, others said he wouldn’t play another game. He’s a great prospect just entering his prime.

I'll respond to this in a way that relates it to the actual subject of this post.

I think it's generally unfair at any time to call the delisting of a fringe player an error, on the basis that they go on to make something of a career elsewhere.

There are typically a range of reasons for a player to be delisted. Sometimes it may be related to work ethic or maturity, for others it could be physical limitations, others still could be due to a list profile that either stifles development or makes it borderline impossible to get the most out of a player.

In cases where the player has shown sufficient form or potential, other clubs can be induced to trade. In cases where the player has not, sometimes it is (unfortunately) necessary to simply cut ties and let them land where they may.

I think all three of our delistings here are somewhat unfortunate, in that they haven't been cut due to a lack of effort or work on their part. One lacks the physicality that our new coach clearly expects/demands and has slipped well back in the pecking order due to recent acquisitions. The other two, on paper, play roles we need filled, but one lacks the football nous to make the most of his impressive athletic traits, and the other has had a horrid run with injury and was unlucky enough to see other talented injury-prone players finally find some consistency.

Should any of them secure a spot on another list and subsequently perform well, it doesn't by default make the decision to cut them a mistake. It comes down to what we could make of them in the circumstances of their time on our list and the makeup of our list in that time. The same goes for others who have been delisted before.

Looking further afield at even less popular list management decisions shows that sometimes a bad deal can be the right move. Collingwood took unders for Grundy and paid a chunk of his salary for a direct competitor. They went on to win the next flag with Cameron and Cox shouldering their ruck duties. Bad deal. Good outcome.

I can empathise with having confidence in a player and being disappointed that the club elected to pursue other options. But seeking to blame the club is, frankly, naive. Instead, take it for what it is - the nature of the game.

 

[CsBlue]

Out of interest, if he won the next 5 Brownlows, but we won the next 5 flags, what would you call it?

There's such a thing as a win-win result. I hope he does well (except against us), and enjoys a long career. But even then, it doesn't necessarily mean a failure on our part. Sometimes a change is needed for a player to flourish - and sometimes teams have a surplus of AFL-quality players in specific roles. It's dubious as to whether he would have seen a lot of playing time this year in our backline, he's getting some at the Saints, good on him.

Winning the flag settles everything.

 

[haveago]

Thanks to LOB, Honey and Philp for all your efforts for the CFC.

All three were given a fair crack at it although a little less so with Philp and his injuries.

He looked like he was going to a goodin after his practice match form in his first season but sadly it
has not worked out that way.


I hope that all three get further opportunity at AFL level but IMO highly unlikely.