List Management 2008

[ImperialPurple]

I know it's early days (very early days), but rgauci's thread got me thinking about "list management" and "oldest list" and all that stuff. My thoughts were about who is coming out of contract in 2008, and what will be the possible moves that Harvs, Bondy & co will make as far as keeping the list turning over...

These are the guys who's contracts are expiring, and what I guess (although in reality I, of course, have absolutley no idea) may be possible outcomes.

2008
JCarr - 3 year contract (takes him to age 31)
Solomon - 2 years
O'Brien - 2 years
Duffield - delist. Tried to get himself traded in 2007, and really needs to step up or he will be finished IMO.
Thornton - ??? Does Harvs rate him like CC did? Shaky one IMO.
Murphy - depends on what happens in 2008. Could get 2 years, could get traded for a 3rd rounder.
Mundy - 2 years
Warnock - 3 years (try and tie up this young ruckman for as long as possible).
Jeffrey - 1 year (he'll be a year by year proposition IMO, although I'd love to see them give him 2 years cos he's been so good on and off-field in 2008!).
Bellie - will retire
MCarr - 1 year or retire (he'll be 30 at the end of next year - no offence to him but hopefully others will have gone way past him and he decides to hang up the boots).
Macca (v) - retire
Webster - If Palmer / Hinkley really come on he might be gorn. Very, very shaky one IMO.
Browne - ditto, but even moreso than Webster.
Dunn(r) - ??? elevate or delist as he'll be too old to stay a rookie. He's an injury or two away from AFL oblivion, poor bloke.

My guess (some of it is hope... )

2011 - Josh, Nockers
2010 - Mundy, Brock, Solly, Smith (rookie elevation)
2009 - Jeffrey

Retire - Macca (vet - so that's a rookie spot), Belly, MCarr(?)
Delist - Duffield, Browne, Dunn(r)

No idea - Webster, Thornton, Murphy


That would give us at least another 6 picks in 2008 - min of 3 for the main list, and then 3 rookies. Keeps the list turning over and fresh, and apart from Belly there's no-one we can't do without.

 

[dockers_bengals]

Would Warnock want a 3yr contract(hope so) Mundy could be worth signing 3 yrs and I can't see Jcarr getting more than 2yrs
but apart from that I agree with you on the others.

 

[chook2734]

Things are certainly not as dire as the worst and weagles supporters would have us believe. I pretty much agree with what you have above IP, but would really like to see players such as Murphy and Duffield take their opportunities in '08. I think list management is going to become as big a factor in success as anything before too long.

Something that may be worth considering is players who are 30 and over - the Crows have a policy of not giving their 30+ players any more than a 1 year contract. Obviously there has been a bit of angst there, and whether it is solely due to this policy or if there are other factors I don't know, but I think it is definitely something worth thinking about.

I posted a while back now that I think the rookie list is where we are going to see the biggest changes in list management going forward - as successful as we have been so far, I still think there is a lot of potential for identifying players who perhaps just require a little more time to develop. Ideally, you'd have at least one backup ruckman, a couple of mids/small utilities and a couple of KPPs on there. If you can top up your list with ready made players from the rookie list, the risk of your list bottoming out has got to reduce.

 

[Rabbitoh]

Harvs would have to rate Thornton!. If it wasn't for Thornton, Connolly may have seen the end of his contract out.
Not a bad analogy IP, but I reckon Webster must owe the coaches money or something, as I rate him highly but he never gets a game. Must be the kid who always mucks around at training eh?

 

[FootyEater]

yeah i agree IP think that most of that is spot on. i reckon thornton will stay around the club.

as for webster i think he was lucky to be on the list this year let alone getting an extension. he will play for east perth all year this year and then will finish out his career in the WAFL

 

[ImperialPurple]

Things are certainly not as dire as the worst and weagles supporters would have us believe. I pretty much agree with what you have above IP, but would really like to see players such as Murphy and Duffield take their opportunities in '08. I think list management is going to become as big a factor in success as anything before too long.

Something that may be worth considering is players who are 30 and over - the Crows have a policy of not giving their 30+ players any more than a 1 year contract. Obviously there has been a bit of angst there, and whether it is solely due to this policy or if there are other factors I don't know, but I think it is definitely something worth thinking about.

I posted a while back now that I think the rookie list is where we are going to see the biggest changes in list management going forward - as successful as we have been so far, I still think there is a lot of potential for identifying players who perhaps just require a little more time to develop. Ideally, you'd have at least one backup ruckman, a couple of mids/small utilities and a couple of KPPs on there. If you can top up your list with ready made players from the rookie list, the risk of your list bottoming out has got to reduce.

I think you are right as far as the rookie list goes. I am actually quite looking forward, in a weird way, to Dunn and Macca being off the list so we can actually have a full complement of "real" rookies. I think the other good thing is that the AFL have changed the rules in that it used to be maximum 2 years on the rookie list before they had to be upgraded or delisted. Then if they were delisted you could redraft them for another year on the rookie list after which you either upgraded or delisted permanently. Now, you can have a guy on the rookie list for as long as he is eligible AFAIK (ie he can't have turned 23 before 30th Sept). So a guy like Brent Connelly can stay there developing, beefing up, getting WAFL experience for 3-4 years as long as Sandi and Nockers are doing their job. Also means that someone like The Shadow can stay there and work on his fitness and stuff for a few years, cos form what I have seen of the boy (at training), there is a fair bit of talent to work with. And late bloomers like Josh Head for example, can have the benefit of continuing to train with an AFL club while they hone their skills with their WAFL club...

 

[summerthebat]

Thornton must be rated by Harvey, if I recall correctly he started him in every game of the last 6, and from my own observation he was playing with greater confidence and responsibility.

 

[dominguez]

Not a bad analogy IP, but I reckon Webster must owe the coaches money or something, as I rate him highly but he never gets a game. Must be the kid who always mucks around at training eh?

Webster's problem is that it's hard to find a role for him. He's behind Johnson/Mundy/Black/Thornton as a running half back, he doesn't have the pace or ball winning ability to play midfield/wing, and Solomon has taken his spot across half forward.

Harvey obviously rates him though or he wouldn't have been retained.

 

[chook2734]

Webster's problem is that it's hard to find a role for him. He's behind Johnson/Mundy/Black/Thornton as a running half back, he doesn't have the pace or ball winning ability to play midfield/wing, and Solomon has taken his spot across half forward.

Harvey obviously rates him though or he wouldn't have been retained.

I think Webster is purely a depth player now - he's good, but not great, and if we get an injury (or suspension) you know he can step in and fill the void. Even if he does screw up the 'average age', he's a good one to have around. If some of the young guys step up (surely someone has to this year?) I wouldn't be surprised to see him delisted at the end of the season.

 

[bigkev bleeds purple]

Duke Webland could be great, but we don't know because he's never gotten a sustained tilt at a midfield role. There's a lot of similarities between his fortunes recently and the Cookie Monster's. Cookie was a great midfielder, but the coaches didn't show any faith in him last year and give him a sustained midfield role. Instead the coaches tried to mould him into a defensive forward pocket. Cookie struggled a bit in his new role and subsequently didn't get a regular game. We won't see the best of the Duke until the coaches really back him and give him a go at a role in the centre. Sadly, I don't think he will be able to push his name in front of the other midfield players who have yet to lock in a spot, like Foster, Schammer, Gilmore and possibly Palmer and Ibbotson.

 

[ImperialPurple]

Luke's biggest problem in the modern game is that he's slow. He's all heart and he does have decent skills, but he doesn't have the skills or nous of Hase, Belly, Josh - so there'd be no point giving him a run in the middle when we already have those guys in there who are also not quick... but are better footballers. He's also 25 already, with only 33 games to his name... so that will probably count against him also.