List Mgmt. List management thread.

[DaVe86]

good post mike123. I forget that Mitchell and Sewell are so small. Guys like Hodge and Burgoyne help...as well as their tall defensive half backs like Birchall, Stratton, Suckling. Then they have Isaac Smith who has real height and pace on a wing. I suppose that compares pretty similarly to us other than the fact their guys have better foot skills.

I think Hawks are an amazing side, but it will be interesting to see if they drop dramatically in 2 years when Mitchell, Hodge and Burgoyne all retire.

I also don't count as many in that list that are pushing for AFL selection, whereas I can count 11 on our list worthy of a game.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

This conversation started when I posed the question that we have 13 guys under 182cm on the list and I can only fit between 6-8 in the 22...and that we have an AA FB playing VFL football and I can't get him into the side at present. Therefore, do we trade because we have value still on a lot of these players...or do we leave them at VFL level as backups or to keep pressure on the others to perform..

Ok I was off topic slightly.

I dont think we have too much of a midget issue. Ball and Swan need to be replaced in time and Blair is always a chance of being superceded. The good players will make the grade. Sure, some good players will be traded away reluctantly by the club. These things have always happened but I dont think we need a cleanout of the shortarses.

What you really ought to be looking at is who we need to bring in rather than who to clean out. And once you include Darcy Moore to the line-up as a potential key-forwrad-ruck I'm not sure we have particular weaknesses anywhere on our list that will need radical surgery. The only key area of interest will be perhaps a wily old backup ruckman to replace Lynch and Hudson.

 

[mike123]

The height factor probably only hurts us in the Backline as we don't really have tall rebounding defenders. Once Shareneberg comes through and we get Seedsman back will look taller and maybe even Adam Oxley can add to the height in the backline.

 

[DaVe86]

Ok I was off topic slightly.

I dont think we have too much of a midget issue. Ball and Swan need to be replaced in time and Blair is always a chance of being superceded. The good players will make the grade. Sure, some good players will be traded away reluctantly by the club. These things have always happened but I dont think we need a cleanout of the shortarses.

What you really ought to be looking at is who we need to bring in rather than who to clean out. And once you include Darcy Moore to the line-up as a potential key-forwrad-ruck I'm not sure we have particular weaknesses anywhere on our list that will need radical surgery. The only key area of interest will be perhaps a wily old backup ruckman to replace Lynch and Hudson.

You make good points.

Just wondering if the club wants more first rounds draft picks...especially if we are forced to use a first rounder on Moore.

I'm definitely agreeing that we could do with some old back up rucks who are happy to play majority VFL but be called upon if necessary. There are a few out there.

Really like your point about Seedsman and Scharenberg too. Couple that with Oxley and Langdon and all of a sudden we have good mid sized defenders. Toovey can play on all sizes, and we have Sinclair and Marley to play on smalls. It's a great set up.

I have a concern about the forward line because we don't really have a mid-sizer. But that is why we recruited Karnezis and Marsh. Karnezis in particular is looking good at VFL level.

 

[Shaneprice97]

Wish the club would tell Nathan Brown to stay in the twos till he provides rebound from the back half, or tell him to reinvent himself as a key forward, preferably the first option because as a shut down defender he leaks about 1-2 goals a game where as a Presti or Glass would shutdown and leak about 1-2 goals every 3 games, if that. He just doesnt lockdown his opponents as much as he should to make up for his current lack of rebound. 15 disposals, 7 marks and 5 rebounds on an opponent who kicked 2-3 goals looks and is so much better than a game with 8 disposals, 4 marks and 1-2 rebounds with 1-2 direct goals scored against.


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[Bugglz]

Does anyone think Brown might look for opportunities elsewhere? I was a big advocate of trading him last year but no one wanted a bar of it as he was "undoubtably best 22" , I would be looking to trade him to a club in need of a big bodied tall defender (Hawthorn, Freo, Saints, Eagles even?) and try to get a decent mid with a bit of hight who can play inside and out (not necessarily to an elite degree, think Sharrod Wellingham :-(). Brown's trade value will probably drop by the end of the year but I think he would still command an early second round pick, possibly even late first round (although I would rather a player).

 

[Scodog10]

You make good points.

Just wondering if the club wants more first rounds draft picks...especially if we are forced to use a first rounder on Moore.

I'm definitely agreeing that we could do with some old back up rucks who are happy to play majority VFL but be called upon if necessary. There are a few out there.

Really like your point about Seedsman and Scharenberg too. Couple that with Oxley and Langdon and all of a sudden we have good mid sized defenders. Toovey can play on all sizes, and we have Sinclair and Marley to play on smalls. It's a great set up.

I have a concern about the forward line because we don't really have a mid-sizer. But that is why we recruited Karnezis and Marsh. Karnezis in particular is looking good at VFL level.

In relation to the bolded I can't imagine we would.

You don't trade players out for 1st round picks if you're ramping up for a tilt at the flag (unless your hands are tied).

If anything we should be looking to go the other way ala Lake in 2012, Jolly and Ball in 09 and Ottens in 05

 

[POKsPies252]

I wouldn't be opposed to trading Brown if the right compensation came up. If trading my ideal situation would be:
Bring in Frawley via FA
Trade Brown + second rounder for pick 8-12 (will likely be between 10-14 after FA compo)

Frawley has shown in the past few weeks that he's capable of playing forward. Having him and Reid being able to play both ends of the ground would be invaluable. One of them would play forward whilst one plays defence on the resting Ruckman and creating rebound. Keeffe and Frost then play as FB and CHB. Alternatively if we wanna play 2 Ruckman like we are currently, swing both Reid and Frawley back meaning one of Keeffe or Forst get demoted to the VFL.

Getting a top 10 pick would be handy but Brown by himself won't command that. The way we've brought in draft picks in the last couple of years (8 in total) means that I don't think we need to use any more than 2 this year. Therefore we probably don't need our 2nd and 3rd picks so we can probably use one or both of them to add to Brown in order to gain a top 10 pick.

Out:
Brown (traded)
Clarke (delisted)
Armstrong (delisted)
Lynch (delisted/retired)
Maxwell (retired)
Hudson - rookie (retired)

In:
Frawley
Top 10 pick
1st rd pick (Darcy Moore)
Rookie Promotion (Jack Frost)
Rookie promotion (Kyle Martin)
Rookie (state league Ruckman)

 

[Scodog10]

I wouldn't be opposed to trading Brown if the right compensation came up. If trading my ideal situation would be:
Bring in Frawley via FA
Trade Brown + second rounder for pick 8-12 (will likely be between 10-14 after FA compo)

Frawley has shown in the past few weeks that he's capable of playing forward. Having him and Reid being able to play both ends of the ground would be invaluable. One of them would play forward whilst one plays defence on the resting Ruckman and creating rebound. Keeffe and Frost then play as FB and CHB. Alternatively if we wanna play 2 Ruckman like we are currently, swing both Reid and Frawley back meaning one of Keeffe or Forst get demoted to the VFL.

Getting a top 10 pick would be handy but Brown by himself won't command that. The way we've brought in draft picks in the last couple of years (8 in total) means that I don't think we need to use any more than 2 this year. Therefore we probably don't need our 2nd and 3rd picks so we can probably use one or both of them to add to Brown in order to gain a top 10 pick.

Out:
Brown (traded)
Clarke (delisted)
Armstrong (delisted)
Lynch (delisted/retired)
Maxwell (retired)
Hudson - rookie (retired)

In:
Frawley
Top 10 pick
1st rd pick (Darcy Moore)
Rookie Promotion (Jack Frost)
Rookie promotion (Kyle Martin)
Rookie (state league Ruckman)

Chuck Lachlan Weller in as that top 10 selection and I would be extremely content. I just can't see Brown extracting that sort of value though.

The other issue will be Frawley's asking price. Something tells me he'll be worth 700k on the open market to a contending club. That's a bit rich IMO.

The less is more approach certainly gets my tick of approval though!

 

[MooreTreloar]

In relation to the bolded I can't imagine we would.

You don't trade players out for 1st round picks if you're ramping up for a tilt at the flag (unless your hands are tied).

If anything we should be looking to go the other way ala Lake in 2012, Jolly and Ball in 09 and Ottens in 05

Like that thinking. What would we need to give up to get someone good though? And who should we target?

 

[POKsPies252]

Chuck Lachlan Weller in as that top 10 selection and I would be extremely content. I just can't see Brown extracting that sort of value though.

The other issue will be Frawley's asking price. Something tells me he'll be worth 700k on the open market to a contending club. That's a bit rich IMO.

The less is more approach certainly gets my tick of approval though!

Melbourne gave up pick 20 an a pick upgrade in the 3rd round for Chris Dawes after a horrible year. West Coast gave up pick 17 for a decent midfielder in Sharrod Wellingham. For me Brown is worth more than those 2 so chuck a second rounder in and I think we could get something around the top 10

 

[Scodog10]

Melbourne gave up pick 20 an a pick upgrade in the 3rd round for Chris Dawes after a horrible year. West Coast gave up pick 17 for a decent midfielder in Sharrod Wellingham. For me Brown is worth more than those 2 so chuck a second rounder in and I think we could get something around the top 10

True. It really does get down to what other teams are looking for.

The other aspect is that Brown has been re-contracted so I'm just not 100% on it.

 

[POKsPies252]

True. It really does get down to what other teams are looking for.

The other aspect is that Brown has been re-contracted so I'm just not 100% on it.

Yeah it definitely won't happen but just an ideal scenario

 

[mike123]

With our good crop of key position defenders i think we'll look in the draft for one and not try to get Frawley. If Brown doesn't play too many AFL games this year we'd be better off trading him for while his worth something and i could imagine Brown would try and seek opportunity else where. I could also see Kyle Martin look elsewhere too and I wouldn't consider it a loss as we have good depth in 180cm guys that can play forward and midfield but i not sure if there is much interest in him so i think he stay but I don't think he get a promotion. I could also see Sinclair get delisted if guys like Oxley go ahead of him but i think he will be kept.

Out:
Nathan Brown (traded)
Martin Clarke (delisted)
Tony Armstrong (delisted)
Quinten Lynch (delisted/retired)
Ben Hudson - rookie (retired)
Corey Gault - rookie (delisted)
Caolan Mooney - rookie (delisted)

In:
Top 10 pick
1st rd pick (Darcy Moore)
3rd rounder
Rookie Promotion (Jack Frost)
Rookie
Rookie
Rookie

 

[POKsPies252]

With our good crop of key position defenders i think we'll look in the draft for one and not try to get Frawley. If Brown doesn't play too many AFL games this year we'd be better off trading him for while his worth something and i could imagine Brown would try and seek opportunity else where. I could also see Kyle Martin look elsewhere too and I wouldn't consider it a loss as we have good depth in 180cm guys that can play forward and midfield but i not sure if there is much interest in him so i think he stay but I don't think he get a promotion. I could also see Sinclair get delisted if guys like Oxley go ahead of him but i think he will be kept.

Out:
Nathan Brown (traded)
Martin Clarke (delisted)
Tony Armstrong (delisted)
Quinten Lynch (delisted/retired)
Ben Hudson - rookie (retired)
Corey Gault - rookie (delisted)
Caolan Mooney - rookie (delisted)

In:
Top 10 pick
1st rd pick (Darcy Moore)
3rd rounder
Rookie Promotion (Jack Frost)
Rookie
Rookie
Rookie

Martin needs to be promoted, delisted or traded.... Can't be kept on the rookie list I don't think

 

[Scodog10]

Yeah it definitely won't happen but just an ideal scenario

It's probably the only one I'd contemplate in order to get that first rounder, but I'd just rather we go the other way.

Like that thinking. What would we need to give up to get someone good though? And who should we target?

What we give probably depends on the player we bring in.

As to who that might be. Hurn? Garlett? Mundy? I wouldn't mind waiting until later in the season to make a definite appraisal.

 

[mike123]

Martin needs to be promoted, delisted or traded.... Can't be kept on the rookie list I don't think

He can be delisted and re rookied.

 

[MagpieBat]

Martin needs to be promoted, delisted or traded.... Can't be kept on the rookie list I don't think

Not that I am advocate for keeping on the rookie list (should have been upgraded last year instead of bringing in that f--king scrubber Armstrong), but rookies can actually be kept on for a maximum of 3 years.

Theoretically speaking, Martin could be kept on the rookie list for 2015, as this is only his 2nd year as a rookie.

 

[AshW]

Martin was courted by Adelaide in the offseason and offered a senior spot. Decided to stay at pies and win a spot on the list.

Hope he gets his chance. He certainly deserves it.

 

[POKsPies252]

Not that I am advocate for keeping on the rookie list (should have been upgraded last year instead of bringing in that f--king scrubber Armstrong), but rookies can actually be kept on for a maximum of 3 years.

Theoretically speaking, Martin could be kept on the rookie list for 2015, as this is only his 2nd year as a rookie.

Ok thanks I was under the impression it was only 2

 

[MooreTreloar]

It's probably the only one I'd contemplate in order to get that first rounder, but I'd just rather we go the other way.



What we give probably depends on the player we bring in.

As to who that might be. Hurn? Garlett? Mundy? I wouldn't mind waiting until later in the season to make a definite appraisal.

Could Brown & a 2nd rounder get us Frawley? And would that be better or worse then signing him as a UFA?

 

[MagpieBat]

Ok thanks I was under the impression it was only 2

Nah, it's 3 years. Not sure when (if?) it was changed, but you can keep them for 3 years.

That being said, it's clear he should be promoted at the end of the year anyway...

 

[MagpieBat]

Could Brown & a 2nd rounder get us Frawley? And would that be better or worse than signing him as a UFA?

If we have too many key defenders as it is, what would be the point in trading one in Brown for another in Frawley?

 

[ClaytonM]

Given his current form I think Martin will be senior listed next year. The only question will be which club. I suspect it will not be the pies.

 

[MooreTreloar]

If we have too many key defenders as it is, what would be the point in trading one in Brown for another in Frawley?

Fair enough. I'm just throwing things around. Not my best.