Looking ahead to 2024

[Section 5]

Injuries will always play a part so luck comes into a debut. Tom Doedee wont be back until around the bye so I will discount him.

I am backing Shadeau Brain or Bruce Reville to earn a debut first.

I believe both those are Cat B Rookies, so someone needs to go on to the LTI list for them to play.

The club could place one or both of Ashcroft and Doedee on the LTI list to give them a go.

 

[Warwick]

I believe both those are Cat B Rookies, so someone needs to go on to the LTI list for them to play.

The club could place one or both of Ashcroft and Doedee on the LTI list to give them a go.

The rookie list is so redundant.

Just have a squad of 46/48/50, or however many players, and have them available to play every game.

 

[Lazza16]

Out of the following list of newbies and listed players that have not yet played a game for the club, who do we think is most likely to debut and or the first to debut for the Lions this year?

25. Henry Smith
34. Shadeau Brain
45. Kalin Lane
xx. Bruce Reville
xx. Tom Doedee
xx. Brandon Ryan
xx. Logan Morris
xx. Luke Lloyd
xx. Zane Zakostelsky
xx. Reece Torrent

Tom Doedee would be the obvious one that will likely debut for the club this year all be it not until the second half of the year.
Brandon Ryan next cab off the rank who could possibly be given a go especially if there is an injury to one of the talls.
Same with Henry Smith.
Then maybe Shadaeu Brain, Logan Morris, Torrent, Reville, Lloyd, Lane and ZZ.

I have got Lane down so low because I think we have a heap of cover.

First to debut: I might go Brandon Ryan. Just because I know that Fages seems to like the 3 tall set up, not sure I like the idea of 3 x 200cm left footed talls in the one line up though so if Logan Morris shows something early, I could also see him getting early games, a better mix of players with that line up I think.

Interesting that we only have 8 players on the list that haven’t played AFL yet. I don’t know if that is high or low but it seems like a low number?

Reece for me...Hodgeish

 

[Dalions]

I believe both those are Cat B Rookies, so someone needs to go on to the LTI list for them to play.

The club could place one or both of Ashcroft and Doedee on the LTI list to give them a go.

I though that had been scrapped.

 

[Gibbo_88]

Will 2024 be "the breakout" season for Cam Rayner?

Entering his prime footy years at 24 years of age, 2 full seasons under his belt post ACL and looking in fantastic shape. He played a very good role in 2023 demonstrated by his top 5 finish in the B&F but I think he has it in him to really explode and become a star of the competition.

Hopefully the heartbreak of a close Grand Final loss will spur Cam and his teammates on to reach the ultimate goal in 2024.

I really hope he has a big jump in performance that we're celebrating him achieving what he is capable of but I honestly think we will only see a minor improvement.

He's got the skills, we've all seen it in patches his whole career. His fitness is just not at the level of the stars of the competition. Everything that he has demonstrated so far shows that he is not athletically gifted and probably has to work harder than others. Hopefully he can keep improving every year a little bit.

 

[dlanod]

I though that had been scrapped.

It's been scrapped for Cat A. Not for Cat B (AFAIK).

 

[3KZ is Football]

Will 2024 be "the breakout" season for Cam Rayner?

Entering his prime footy years at 24 years of age, 2 full seasons under his belt post ACL and looking in fantastic shape. He played a very good role in 2023 demonstrated by his top 5 finish in the B&F but I think he has it in him to really explode and become a star of the competition.

Hopefully the heartbreak of a close Grand Final loss will spur Cam and his teammates on to reach the ultimate goal in 2024.

Cam’s Breakout Year.

 

[M Malice]

View attachment 1862262
Cam’s Breakout Year.

 

[jfn]

The rookie list is so redundant.

Just have a squad of 46/48/50, or however many players, and have them available to play every game.

I agree. Raise the list to at least 50, even stretch it to 54. 46 players need for the 1st and 2nds. Most clubs have at least half a dozen players on the injury list at any given time of the year.

 

[jfn]

Out of the following list of newbies and listed players that have not yet played a game for the club, who do we think is most likely to debut and or the first to debut for the Lions this year?

25. Henry Smith
34. Shadeau Brain
45. Kalin Lane
xx. Bruce Reville
xx. Tom Doedee
xx. Brandon Ryan
xx. Logan Morris
xx. Luke Lloyd
xx. Zane Zakostelsky
xx. Reece Torrent

Tom Doedee would be the obvious one that will likely debut for the club this year all be it not until the second half of the year.
Brandon Ryan next cab off the rank who could possibly be given a go especially if there is an injury to one of the talls.
Same with Henry Smith.
Then maybe Shadaeu Brain, Logan Morris, Torrent, Reville, Lloyd, Lane and ZZ.

I have got Lane down so low because I think we have a heap of cover.

First to debut: I might go Brandon Ryan. Just because I know that Fages seems to like the 3 tall set up, not sure I like the idea of 3 x 200cm left footed talls in the one line up though so if Logan Morris shows something early, I could also see him getting early games, a better mix of players with that line up I think.

Interesting that we only have 8 players on the list that haven’t played AFL yet. I don’t know if that is high or low but it seems like a low number?

Doedee is a lock for the second half of the year.

The pre-season games will indicate who is ready. I'm not that sure that 3x 200cm+ forwards will work. I like the idea of either Morris or Lloyd as the 3rd forward. Both seem to be natural footballers, not just athletes. If the pre-season indicates one of them can make the leap to the big time, it could be one of them.

Torrent moves like he is ready, but the prove will be if he also can make the leap to the seniors. Looks poised in the Under 18s, but the step up can be huge. I hope he can, because he looks all quality.

 

[mpal6]

Will 2024 be "the breakout" season for Cam Rayner?

Entering his prime footy years at 24 years of age, 2 full seasons under his belt post ACL and looking in fantastic shape. He played a very good role in 2023 demonstrated by his top 5 finish in the B&F but I think he has it in him to really explode and become a star of the competition.

Hopefully the heartbreak of a close Grand Final loss will spur Cam and his teammates on to reach the ultimate goal in 2024.

Needs a running coach who can get him into repeat sprints mode this offseason.

Sort that out and he'll be a nightmare matchup.

 

[jfn]

Needs a running coach who can get him into repeat sprints mode this offseason.

Sort that out and he'll be a nightmare matchup.

I agree that Cam probably needs to work on his stamina which should improve his consistency.

I think he’s always going to be high on list of favourite players of most Lions supporters, but he also can add some frustration. He was always compared to Petracca when he stated his career. For good reasons. High draft picks, powerful builds, dominated as juniors, almost identical height and weight. Petracca took a few years to find that turning point to mature, and Cam’s at about the same point now. Their early match stats were very similar.

I don’t think Cam should model himself on Petracca, but he can learn from his development, his role to play, and when to shift into his match winner gear. If anything, Cam has more tricks than Petracca. Great leap, great hands, and probably better burst speed. But he lacks the stamina to play for sustained periods in the midfield, therefore isn’t getting his stats up. As Jack Dyer used to say, “You’ve gotta be where the ball is, not where it ain’t”. He also tend to do the spectacular rather than the basics. Highlights reels don’t win games.

I want to join the annual bandwagon and say this is the breakout year for Cam. I hope it is. How much fun would it be seeing him be that 25 - 30 possession goal kicking midfielder? Bring on 2024.

 

[briztoon]

I agree that Cam probably needs to work on his stamina which should improve his consistency.

I think he’s always going to be high on list of favourite players of most Lions supporters, but he also can add some frustration. He was always compared to Petracca when he stated his career. For good reasons. High draft picks, powerful builds, dominated as juniors, almost identical height and weight. Petracca took a few years to find that turning point to mature, and Cam’s at about the same point now. Their early match stats were very similar.

I don’t think Cam should model himself on Petracca, but he can learn from his development, his role to play, and when to shift into his match winner gear. If anything, Cam has more tricks than Petracca. Great leap, great hands, and probably better burst speed. But he lacks the stamina to play for sustained periods in the midfield, therefore isn’t getting his stats up. As Jack Dyer used to say, “You’ve gotta be where the ball is, not where it ain’t”. He also tend to do the spectacular rather than the basics. Highlights reels don’t win games.

I want to join the annual bandwagon and say this is the breakout year for Cam. I hope it is. How much fun would it be seeing him be that 25 - 30 possession goal kicking midfielder? Bring on 2024.

Petracca has spoken about that things "clicked" for him when he was about 23/24, and he had to change his diet, change his attitude, training etc, to become a professional athlete.

If things don't "click" for Rayner, he'll always be a tease.

 

[jfn]

Petracca has spoken about that things "clicked" for him when he was about 23/24, and he had to change his diet, change his attitude, training etc, to become a professional athlete.

If things don't "click" for Rayner, he'll always be a tease.

Certainly a tease.

Numbers can look easy at times. If he could straighten up his attitude and endurance, find the ball 2 more times per quarter, he’d be a 25 possession mid.

If only this game was so easy!

 

[Warwick]

Highlights reels don’t win games.

That is precisely the reason Fagan sticks true to some of these players. Even if they have having a poor game, he pushes them to have that one moment that does win the game.


Tbh with regards to Rayner - sprint coaches, endurance training, special diets etc etc - let’s not kid ourselves all of this and more hasn’t been considered and tried by our S&C team. They are elite professionals. Rayner may never develop a good enough tank to be that more accumulating midfielder. He is reaching the sweet spot of his career and a couple of years post ACL though so who knows.

 

[M Malice]

That is precisely the reason Fagan sticks true to some of these players. Even if they have having a poor game, he pushes them to have that one moment that does win the game.


Tbh with regards to Rayner - sprint coaches, endurance training, special diets etc etc - let’s not kid ourselves all of this and more hasn’t been considered and tried by our S&C team. They are elite professionals. Rayner may never develop a good enough tank to be that more accumulating midfielder. He is reaching the sweet spot of his career and a couple of years post ACL though so who knows.

Yep, I've mentioned it before but A grade/elite endurance has a large genetic component to it, no doubt Cam can improve his endurance but he is never going to be an Ed Langdon or Steele Sidebottom gut runner or even close to it.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

On the Rayner/Petracca comparison... I feel that Cam gets torn between being a good team player and backing himself in to change a game. He's an excellent assist player, but once he gives the ball he doesn't always stay involved in the play. He's not a cheap 1-2 merchant which is why his stats aren't as high as they could be. He often comes to a stop to dish off a handball, often impeccably-timed and is content to let others do their part. Someone like Petracca tends to carry the team on his back, perhaps a by-product of where Melbourne has come from and their list makeup. I think Cam could do with a being slightly more selfish.

 

[Mighty Lions]

On the Rayner/Petracca comparison... I feel that Cam gets torn between being a good team player and backing himself in to change a game. He's an excellent assist player, but once he gives the ball he doesn't always stay involved in the play. He's not a cheap 1-2 merchant which is why his stats aren't as high as they could be. He often comes to a stop to dish off a handball, often impeccably-timed and is content to let others do their part. Someone like Petracca tends to carry the team on his back, perhaps a by-product of where Melbourne has come from and their list makeup. I think Cam could do with a being slightly more selfish.

Every player in the AFL is expected to be a good team player...it's finding the balance to back yourself in situations when needed more so than changing a game off your own back. Bailey (rather than Cam) needs to become more team orientated in 2024 for us to be a grand final winning side. Rayner is tracking along nicely in my opinion. Almost 75% of our list will be better in 2024 simply because of their maturity as footballers grow....it's something that takes time and will never happen quickly.

 

[Section 5]

Fish mentions Rayner at the very end.
Basically, thinks he should stay forward.
9 minutes on the Suns & Lions

2023 season in review: Gold Coast and Brisbane - AFL Daily

Nat Edwards and Michael Whiting take a look at season 2023 of both Gold Coast and the Brisbane Lions. Subscribe to AFL Daily and never miss an episode. Rate and review wherever you listen to podcasts.

omny.fm

 

[rye]

Every player in the AFL is expected to be a good team player...it's finding the balance to back yourself in situations when needed more so than changing a game off your own back. Bailey (rather than Cam) needs to become more team orientated in 2024 for us to be a grand final winning side. Rayner is tracking along nicely in my opinion. Almost 75% of our list will be better in 2024 simply because of their maturity as footballers grow....it's something that takes time and will never happen quickly.

i thought bailey was much more of a team player in 2023 than he had been previously. his tackle numbers were up considerably on 2022 and although he did not kick as many goals as he did in 2022, he made up the difference through contributing significantly more goal assists for the team (37 goals + 8 assists in 2022 V 29 goals + 20 assists in 2023). just from the eye test he looked much more invested in team defence than he had been in previous seasons. not saying he still cant improve further in 2024, but i think he has made significant progress in his teamwork in 2023

my hope for 2024 is bailey can become more of a mid-forward than a forward-mid, especially whilst we have ashcroft on the sidelines. he will always have great forward craft, but if he can become a genuine part of the midfield rotation it would go a long way to helping us push for a flag. that game against sydney where he played majority on ball minutes and ended up with 25~ touches and 2 goals whilst having 11 score involvements showed how damaging he can be as a midfielder when hes on

 

[Dalions]

Fish mentions Rayner at the very end.
Basically, thinks he should stay forward.
9 minutes on the Suns & Lions

2023 season in review: Gold Coast and Brisbane - AFL Daily

Nat Edwards and Michael Whiting take a look at season 2023 of both Gold Coast and the Brisbane Lions. Subscribe to AFL Daily and never miss an episode. Rate and review wherever you listen to podcasts.

omny.fm

I am not sure I completely agree with Fish on this one.
Cam is extremely damaging when on ball and with our current set up in the midfield it will only ever be spits and spurts for Cam in there anyway, so I think it needs to be persisted with for Cam to spend at least 20-30% of game time in the middle to develop his game.
Because with injuries in game there is always a chance that there may be a time that Cam will need to spend significant time on ball.

 

[rye]

I am not sure I completely agree with Fish on this one.
Cam is extremely damaging when on ball and with our current set up in the midfield it will only ever be spits and spurts for Cam in there anyway, so I think it needs to be persisted with for Cam to spend at least 20-30% of game time in the middle to develop his game.
Because with injuries in game there is always a chance that there may be a time that Cam will need to spend significant time on ball.

rayner might not ever be a genuine midfielder, but he could be a stringer / bolton impact at centre bounce and then drift forward type. his stoppage craft at centre bounces is quite good

 

[Mighty Lions]

I am not sure I completely agree with Fish on this one.
Cam is extremely damaging when on ball and with our current set up in the midfield it will only ever be spits and spurts for Cam in there anyway, so I think it needs to be persisted with for Cam to spend at least 20-30% of game time in the middle to develop his game.
Because with injuries in game there is always a chance that there may be a time that Cam will need to spend significant time on ball.

Oh dear, not agreeing with Fish????

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

I agree that Cam probably needs to work on his stamina which should improve his consistency.

I think he’s always going to be high on list of favourite players of most Lions supporters, but he also can add some frustration. He was always compared to Petracca when he stated his career. For good reasons. High draft picks, powerful builds, dominated as juniors, almost identical height and weight. Petracca took a few years to find that turning point to mature, and Cam’s at about the same point now. Their early match stats were very similar.

I don’t think Cam should model himself on Petracca, but he can learn from his development, his role to play, and when to shift into his match winner gear. If anything, Cam has more tricks than Petracca. Great leap, great hands, and probably better burst speed. But he lacks the stamina to play for sustained periods in the midfield, therefore isn’t getting his stats up. As Jack Dyer used to say, “You’ve gotta be where the ball is, not where it ain’t”. He also tend to do the spectacular rather than the basics. Highlights reels don’t win games.

I want to join the annual bandwagon and say this is the breakout year for Cam. I hope it is. How much fun would it be seeing him be that 25 - 30 possession goal kicking midfielder? Bring on 2024.

Centre half forward then.
Never going to be a regular mid , therefore he is always going to be a gamble in there in the big games.
Put him where his natural talent will skyrocket him to be a grat player.

 

[Dalions]

Oh dear, not agreeing with Fish????