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Toast Lyons

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Kane McGoodwin said:
For player managerment, I don't think it is ideal to have the same sub on consecutive games as can lose fitness. Also, I would like to see Lyons given a full game to see how he goes, as he may not keep his place when Crouch comes back, but he may if he outperforms others (eg. say Mackay). We need to know that now!

He can take Poprs place in the side, with Henderson/Martin the sub.
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Its OK. I only said it to upset a few clowns. If you look a few posts up, you'd have to say it worked.
 
Peter J said:
Thought I saw a little bit of Lenny Hayes out there today. Anything remotely close to that level will be a great find
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Agree to some extent, but for some reason Lyons reminds me a lot of Pendlebury the way he plays. Of course im in no way saying that he is just as good, or will be as good, but i think he can get right up there for sure. He always seems so clean with the ball in and under and always knows exactly what he wants to do with it. The thing that stands out the most is that Lyons just seems to have so much time when he has the ball compared to other players, its almost like he's in slow motion, which is why i see of lot of Pendles in him. Gun stoppage player lacking a bit of pace, but great user of the footy with great vision also. Correct me if im wrong but is Lyons left footed also? Going to be a huge assest for our midfield :) 19 possessions in a quarter and a bit is a fair achievement despite the opposition.
 

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arusso707 said:
. Correct me if im wrong but is Lyons left footed also? Going to be a huge assest for our midfield :) 19 possessions in a quarter and a bit is a fair achievement despite the opposition.
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Ill correct you there but only because you asked defiantly a right footer.
Your 100 per cent correct with the second part of your statement though will be a huge asset to midfield in a couple of years.
 
cmndstab said:
During our finals push that ended up one kick short of a grand final? Fair go, mate. Each of them got a game or two to give them a taste, and their positive form this year is a pretty good advertisement for that method of introduction to the AFL, as it has been for Dangerfield, Sloane and Otten in the past.
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The whole school thing was a factor for Danger that none of the others faced. We don't know how many games the club would played him in without this obstacle. The others are fair, this makes 2 out of the 30-something players on the list?

Until Lyons really started to hit his stride last year the decision to keep him out was understandable, his non-selection for the early part of this season wasn't. Brown should have played more games considering Doughty's predictable retirement. Kerridge is probably the least understandable of the lot though considering how well he fit into the club when he came in, his great initial preseason and his AFL ready body. The short term result of this poor foresight is that we have kids playing who are less experienced than they should be at this stage in their careers.
 
PyroCrow said:
The whole school thing was a factor for Danger that none of the others faced. We don't know how many games the club would played him in without this obstacle. The others are fair, this makes 2 out of the 30-something players on the list?

Until Lyons really started to hit his stride last year the decision to keep him out was understandable, his non-selection for the early part of this season wasn't. Brown should have played more games considering Doughty's predictable retirement. Kerridge is probably the least understandable of the lot though considering how well he fit into the club when he came in, his great initial preseason and his AFL ready body. The short term result of this poor foresight is that we have kids playing who are less experienced than they should be at this stage in their careers.
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Ok then, when we were on a dream run with injuries and playing some of our best footy in a long time, who would you have dropped?

Brown over Dogga? Come off it, Dogga was brilliant last season. Brown looked like a deer in headlights, but it got him the taste of it.

Lyons got a couple of little chances (and played ok), but he was never gonna get an extended run when our midfield was the best in the competition last year. Same with Kerridge. They were unlucky, but that's what happens when the side has no injuries, is sitting in the top 2 for a fair amount of the season, and has the number one clearance and contested ball combination.

Lyons probably could have come in earlier this season, but it's not the end of the world as you are making it out to be.
 
BACCS said:
Ok then, when we were on a dream run with injuries and playing some of our best footy in a long time, who would you have dropped?

Brown over Dogga? Come off it, Dogga was brilliant last season. Brown looked like a deer in headlights, but it got him the taste of it.

Lyons got a couple of little chances (and played ok), but he was never gonna get an extended run when our midfield was the best in the competition last year. Same with Kerridge. They were unlucky, but that's what happens when the side has no injuries, is sitting in the top 2 for a fair amount of the season, and has the number one clearance and contested ball combination.

Lyons probably could have come in earlier this season, but it's not the end of the world as you are making it out to be.
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Contrary to some points of view, I agree with you that given the circumstances of last year, we had no other options than to go down the path that we did with our youngsters.

Geelong have a policy of no free games to youngsters - every youngster has to earn their way into that side which is why they perform so well when they finally get their chance.

Sando has adopted a similar policy and we are now seeing a similar thing with our youngsters when they do get their chance.
 
BACCS said:
Lyons got a couple of little chances (and played ok), but he was never gonna get an extended run when our midfield was the best in the competition last year. Same with Kerridge. They were unlucky, but that's what happens when the side has no injuries, is sitting in the top 2 for a fair amount of the season, and has the number one clearance and contested ball combination.
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Main ones I'd pick out were playing Symes and Knights ahead of Riley and Kerridge at stages past season when we knew both were out the door. We also dropped a promising looking Lyons for a badly unfit Douglas in a crucial game against Collingwood, only to be injured in the SANFL and not return to the Crows side. Thankfully he appears to have picked up where he left off.

Minor quibbles though, there wasn't much that could be stuffed up selection wise.
macca23 said:
Contrary to some points of view, I agree with you that given the circumstances of last year, we had no other options than to go down the path that we did with our youngsters.

Geelong have a policy of no free games to youngsters - every youngster has to earn their way into that side which is why they perform so well when they finally get their chance.

Sando has adopted a similar policy and we are now seeing a similar thing with our youngsters when they do get their chance.
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Its a much more transparent process for them though. Good performance Geelong VFL = Geelong AFL. Not sure we do (or can) put anywhere near as much stock in form for random SANFL sides, though the trends of recent weeks indicate a big step in the rewarding youth direction.
 
Thommo51 said:
Main ones I'd pick out were playing Symes and Knights ahead of Riley and Kerridge at stages past season when we knew both were out the door. We also dropped a promising looking Lyons for a badly unfit Douglas in a crucial game against Collingwood, only to be injured in the SANFL and not return to the Crows side. Thankfully he appears to have picked up where he left off.

Minor quibbles though, there wasn't much that could be stuffed up selection wise.
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Yup can see your point here. However feel that Sando was right in giving them both a shot. New coach needed to see if they were up to it and could fit into his system. Symes was given two games in a row to show something and didn't. Knights was given 4 games in a 5 week period and didn't show enough.

Think the same opportunity has been given to Tambling in the Hawthorn game. Really think that he won't get another shot unless we get some pretty bad injuries / horrible form to Brown/Laird/Jaensch.

What will be interesting is whether another AFL club will pick up Tambo.
 
macca23 said:
Contrary to some points of view, I agree with you that given the circumstances of last year, we had no other options than to go down the path that we did with our youngsters.

Geelong have a policy of no free games to youngsters - every youngster has to earn their way into that side which is why they perform so well when they finally get their chance.

Sando has adopted a similar policy and we are now seeing a similar thing with our youngsters when they do get their chance.
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Everyone looks at what Geelong does now.

We should be looking at what they did 2001-06 and replicating that. What they did after they'd assembled a premiership squad isn't relevant to us (yet).
 

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Drugs Are Bad Mackay? said:
Everyone looks at what Geelong does now.

We should be looking at what they did 2001-06 and replicating that. What they did after they'd assembled a premiership squad isn't relevant to us (yet).
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Goes back further than 2001-2006. Since taking over at the 1995 - Stephen Wells has done an absolutely amazing job starting with the 1999 draft (his 96-98 drafts left a little to be desired).

1999:
Pick 8 - Joel Corey
Pick 31- Paul Chapman
Pick 38 - Cameron Ling
Pick 47 - Corey Enright

2001:
Pick 8 - Jimmy Bartel
Pick 17 - James Kelley
Pick 24 - Steve Johnson
Pick 40 - Gary Ablett (Father/Son).

To me - much of Geelong's success needs to be put down to Stability. Over his 18 years of being head recruiter - Wells has only dealt with three coaches (Ayres / Bomber / Scott).

Compare that to us. We have had 3 different recruiters since 1995 and 5 coaches.

There is a lot to be said for stability and quality at the top.
 
That's chicken and egg stuff. The success needs to come first. Or at least the signposts indicating imminent success. If we'd stuck with Robert Shaw, Gary Ayres and James Fantasia for longer we would have been more successful?
 
AFC979810 said:
Goes back further than 2001-2006. Since taking over at the 1995 - Stephen Wells has done an absolutely amazing job starting with the 1999 draft (his 96-98 drafts left a little to be desired).

1999:
Pick 8 - Joel Corey
Pick 31- Paul Chapman
Pick 38 - Cameron Ling
Pick 47 - Corey Enright

2001:
Pick 8 - Jimmy Bartel
Pick 17 - James Kelley
Pick 24 - Steve Johnson
Pick 40 - Gary Ablett (Father/Son).

To me - much of Geelong's success needs to be put down to Stability. Over his 18 years of being head recruiter - Wells has only dealt with three coaches (Ayres / Bomber / Scott).

Compare that to us. We have had 3 different recruiters since 1995 and 5 coaches.

There is a lot to be said for stability and quality at the top.
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Some ordinary recruiting those two years
 
AFC979810 said:
Goes back further than 2001-2006. Since taking over at the 1995 - Stephen Wells has done an absolutely amazing job starting with the 1999 draft (his 96-98 drafts left a little to be desired).

1999:
Pick 8 - Joel Corey
Pick 31- Paul Chapman
Pick 38 - Cameron Ling
Pick 47 - Corey Enright

2001:
Pick 8 - Jimmy Bartel
Pick 17 - James Kelley
Pick 24 - Steve Johnson
Pick 40 - Gary Ablett (Father/Son).

To me - much of Geelong's success needs to be put down to Stability. Over his 18 years of being head recruiter - Wells has only dealt with three coaches (Ayres / Bomber / Scott).

Compare that to us. We have had 3 different recruiters since 1995 and 5 coaches.

There is a lot to be said for stability and quality at the top.
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Those two drafts formed the core of their premiership teams. Virtually every one of the players drafted in those two years went on to become an AA player. To a large degree that's a credit to Wells. At some point though, luck simply has to come into it. I cannot think of any other club who has managed achieve that level of success from one draft, let alone two in three years. Nor has Wells ever gone close to repeating it himself.

We did OK in 2001 - 2x AA (Rutten & Bock) in the rookie draft, plus an AA squad selection (Reilly) in the ND. That's a pretty good result overall, but nowhere near what Geelong achieved. Our 1999 drafting was deplorable, with only Rob Shirley & Rhett Biglands to show from 6 selections - neither of whom ever got close to AA selection.
 
Drugs Are Bad Mackay? said:
Everyone looks at what Geelong does now.

We should be looking at what they did 2001-06 and replicating that. What they did after they'd assembled a premiership squad isn't relevant to us (yet).
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Definitely. This is the point people have been missing. Much easier to bring youngsters into a champion team. You put Christensen, Smedts, Horlin-Smith, Hunt any of them in the Melbourne team at the moment and they would play like Melbourne players.
 
AFC979810 said:
1999:
Pick 8 - Joel Corey
Pick 31- Paul Chapman
Pick 38 - Cameron Ling
Pick 47 - Corey Enright

2001:
Pick 8 - Jimmy Bartel
Pick 17 - James Kelley
Pick 24 - Steve Johnson
Pick 40 - Gary Ablett (Father/Son).
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1999 is exceptional given how poor a draft it was (#1 Josh Fraser, #2 Paul Hasleby, #3 Aaron Fiora).

Adelaide 1999:
Pick 6 and 21 - traded for Matthew Clarke
Pick 36 - Rhett Biglands
Pick 51 - Ricky O'Loughlin
Pick 65 - Justin Cicolella
Pick 67 - Robert Shirley
Pick 77 - traded for Scott Welsh
Pick 79 - Balraj Singh

Adelaide 2001:
Pick 12 - Brent Reilly
Pick 28 - Traded for Ryan Fitzgerald
Pick 44 - Ben Finnin
Pick 56 - Traded or Daniel Schell
 

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Geelong's recent success was born from exceptional recruitment, and iron-clad management. From there you develop a winning culture and huge self-belief to keep on winning, which spreads to your new guys as well (as opposed to the likes of Melbourne, where the losing culture spreads to the youth).

We've had the strong recruitment, but not the strong management. Time to get tough on it.
 
Hey, First time poster but long time viewer. I like Lyons a lot, but who goes out for crouch when hes fit? Kerridge is ahead of Lyons atm
 
BACCS said:
Ok then, when we were on a dream run with injuries and playing some of our best footy in a long time, who would you have dropped?

Brown over Dogga? Come off it, Dogga was brilliant last season. Brown looked like a deer in headlights, but it got him the taste of it.

Lyons got a couple of little chances (and played ok), but he was never gonna get an extended run when our midfield was the best in the competition last year. Same with Kerridge. They were unlucky, but that's what happens when the side has no injuries, is sitting in the top 2 for a fair amount of the season, and has the number one clearance and contested ball combination.

Lyons probably could have come in earlier this season, but it's not the end of the world as you are making it out to be.
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The way I look at it now is that these guys are now upside for us. It means our team can and will improve further. So yes a bit disappointing that they didnt get here earlier but its all upside for the future
 

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