Making a Murderer

[danielnajdek]

Only hope they have is if the person/s that did kill her can't hide it any longer and admit to it. Until then they will never get out.

 

[Pie eyed]

Is anybody watching this documentary at the moment. Un-****en-believable!

Watched it a few months ago.
Pretty amazing doco.
It perfectly illustrates the issues with the American "police/legal" system.
Amateur hour on steroids.

 

[Pie eyed]

Only hope they have is if the person/s that did kill her can't hide it any longer and admit to it. Until then they will never get out.

I'm pretty confident the cops killed her...

 

[Pie eyed]

PM the link.

How may eps make-up 8gig?

It's on Netflix...one month free trial will get the whole show for nix.

 

[danielnajdek]

I'm pretty confident the cops killed her...

I get the same feeling.

Therefore they'll never get out. Not sure what they had against him even when they wanted him done for the first case that he eventually got found not guilty of.

 

[Pie eyed]

I have had Netflix for about 8 months best $8.99 a month ever spent....no extra cost for anything and no ads at all.
None, not one, not even so much as self promotion....

 

[Pie eyed]

I get the same feeling.

Therefore they'll never get out. Not sure what they had against him even when they wanted him done for the first case that he eventually got found not guilty of.

All about ego with the cops and the DA cahoots originally, they already had a personal grudge so set-him up for the original murder, then when they got conclusively caught in the lie by DNA of rail-roading him the first time they were all in the frame for millions in civil claims so they murdered someone to frame him again to save their skins.
The thing is these are the least intelligent conspirators ever seen, yet the judge is even more gullible and stupid???

 

[sirlothie]

I'm pretty confident the cops killed her...

You really think the cops killed her and that many people are in cahoots with this conspiracy? It's a big call.

 

[Pie eyed]

You really think the cops killed her and that many people are in cahoots with this conspiracy? It's a big call.

Have you watched the doco?
It's a very comprehensive, actual video of both trials, testimony of those involved not some 48 hours reenactment.
The evidence is pretty damning. I'm extremely adverse to conspiracy theories in general.
These people for the most part are truly inbred yokels right down to the judge and jury.

 

[sirlothie]

Have you watched the doco?
It's a very comprehensive, actual video of both trials, testimony of those involved not some 48 hours reenactment.
The evidence is pretty damning. I'm extremely adverse to conspiracy theories in general.
These people for the most part are truly inbred yokels right down to the judge and jury.

Yes I have watched it. The biggest yokels are the Avery's. I suspect Stephen didn't do it but I think his nephew might have. I have trouble rationalising that a police department would murder an innocent person to frame someone, that's all.

But after watching the OJ Simpson mini series where police admitted they planted evidence during the trial, s**t anything could happen. It's frightening.

 

[Pie eyed]

Better than A Current Affair?

ROFL.

Yes I have watched it. The biggest yokels are the Avery's. I suspect Stephen didn't do it but I think his nephew might have. I have trouble rationalising that a police department would murder an innocent person to frame someone, that's all.

But after watching the OJ Simpson mini series where police admitted they planted evidence during the trial, s**t anything could happen. It's frightening.

There are just so many proven instances of people being framed, deliberately, not mistakenly, men and women sentenced to life and even death who are conclusively proven innocent, many too late having been executed. and when this happens the full weight of the law and government is almost universally thrown into denying the wrong, preventing compensation and or protecting the guilty officials responsible.
The whole system is weighted toward making money by making convictions, even if literally manufacturing them.

 

[sirlothie]

ROFL.

There are just so many proven instances of people being framed, deliberately, not mistakenly, men and women sentenced to life and even death who are conclusively proven innocent, many too late having been executed. and when this happens the full weight of the law and government is almost universally thrown into denying the wrong, preventing compensation and or protecting the guilty officials responsible.
The whole system is weighted toward making money by making convictions, even if literally manufacturing them.

Stupid really as the cost of housing prisoners is astronomical. I just hope one day they somehow pin these corrupt police and officials and throw their arses in jail. Not holding my breath though.

 

[Pie eyed]

Stupid really as the cost of housing prisoners is astronomical. I just hope one day they somehow pin these corrupt police and officials and throw their arses in jail. Not holding my breath though.

Housing Prisoners is a huge private business in the US. Massive in fact. Laws are weighted to earn huge profits for those who own the private prisons.

 

[sirlothie]

Housing Prisoners is a huge private business in the US. Massive in fact. Laws are weighted to earn huge profits for those who own the private prisons.

Privately owned prisons.... I guess I shouldn't be surprised but geez... Reminds me of Shawshank Redemption.

 

[Pie eyed]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...me-the-biggest-lobby-no-one-is-talking-about/

 

[sirlothie]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...me-the-biggest-lobby-no-one-is-talking-about/

That's sickening. They are so corrupted. No wonder they give 20+ years for a burglary... Murderers and rapists get out quicker here.

 

[ppoiter]

If you liked this or Serial do yourself a favour and listen to The Australian Podcast - currently looking at the Bowraville murders. Its not quite as gripping as Serial but it really is a stunning story, showing again (amongst other things) that your likelihood of getting justice sadly depends on your social standing

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/bowraville

 

[danielnajdek]

That kids murder conviction got overturned.

 

[Schraderbrau]

Housing Prisoners is a huge private business in the US. Massive in fact. Laws are weighted to earn huge profits for those who own the private prisons.

Privately owned prisons.... I guess I shouldn't be surprised but geez... Reminds me of Shawshank Redemption.

There was a huge scandal a few years ago in the US where a few judges were receiving kickbacks from a private prison in exchange for sentencing kids who did time there. Many of the sentences were disproportionate for the offences committed and it was a bit of a disgrace. There is a documwntary on it called kids for cash.

We've also got private prisons over here I'm pretty sure although they're much better regulated. Still don't like the idea of them tbh.

Also I read a great piece of investigatory journalism recently where the journalist went undercover as a employee in a private prison in the US. Well worth a read and makes you grateful to live in a country with a functional justice system. http://www.motherjones.com/politics...tions-corporation-inmates-investigation-bauer

 

[Schraderbrau]

Anyone who liked Making a Murderer should watch the Staircase. It's about a semi-famous/rich book author who goes to trial for murdering his wife. Unlike MoM it gets direct access to the defendant and defence team and other key players throughout the trial. Quality stuff imo.

Here's the first episode, you can find the rest by googling.

 

[sirlothie]

That kids murder conviction got overturned.

Avery will never get out though. He's the stooge, the Lee Harvey Oswald.

 

[sirlothie]

There was a huge scandal a few years ago in the US where a few judges were receiving kickbacks from a private prison in exchange for sentencing kids who did time there. Many of the sentences were disproportionate for the offences committed and it was a bit of a disgrace. There is a documwntary on it called kids for cash.

We've also got private prisons over here I'm pretty sure although they're much better regulated. Still don't like the idea of them tbh.

Also I read a great piece of investigatory journalism recently where the journalist went undercover as a employee in a private prison in the US. Well worth a read and makes you grateful to live in a country with a functional justice system. http://www.motherjones.com/politics...tions-corporation-inmates-investigation-bauer

You see guys particularly blacks who get out after doing 40 years for a burglary or drug deal and they can't adjust to the outside world again, its changed too much. Like they don't get everyone walking around with smart phones... So they are really taking their lives...

 

[danielnajdek]

Anyone who liked Making a Murderer should watch the Staircase. It's about a semi-famous/rich book author who goes to trial for murdering his wife. Unlike MoM it gets direct access to the defendant and defence team and other key players throughout the trial. Quality stuff imo.

Here's the first episode, you can find the rest by googling.

Watched that on CI channel a while back. His first wife also fell down stairs and died so just slightly suspicious to me.

 

[Summer Nights]

Sorry for the intrusion but I found this thread with a search, as I'm watching this series at the moment and wanted to share my thoughts.

The evidence really is against Steve Avery in my conclusion so far.

Consider his history:
* cruelty to animals and the links in research between kids who do this kind of thing being more likely to be criminals as adults
* driving his cousin off the road and threatening her with a gun in his early 20s
* threatening to kill his first wife in letters from prison

Evidence in the Halbach murder:
* her last known location was his salvage yard
* her remains found in the fire pit and his admission they had a bonfire the night she went missing
* her vehicle hidden in his yard
* the number plates removed and discarded in an abandoned car on a road near/behind his cabin
* his DNA found in the blood inside her vehicle (allegedly planted). Tests show no trace of a preservative used in the storage of blood vials for criminal purposes, indicating it was probably new blood
* his DNA found on the latch under the hood of her car (type not known, e.g. Sweat or blood)
* she had been shot in the head and a bullet with her DNA was found in his garage
* the bullet was fired from his gun, hanging in his home (or garage - can't remember which)
* her car key with his blood found in his cabin. This particular piece of evidence seems the one most likely to have been planted or at least tampered with
* his 16 yr old cousin as his only alibi that day

I think the evidence suggests Avery probably did kill Halbach, but that the Manitowoc police interfered when they suspiciously found her key in his cabin after many previous searches by the other investigators turned up nothing. It's very possible they augmented the evidence to secure a conviction.

In regards to the 'confession' of Avery's cousin, again it's very interesting. No doubt he was coerced into telling them what they wanted to hear. It seems like he was a participant in at least disposing of the body, but his knowledge of how she died in truth wasn't there. He seemed to have terrible cognitive aptitude, so you can't really make too much of it either way.

What I'm struggling with is that Steve Avery presents as so convincingly innocent. He doesn't show any give-always of someone lying at all and the timing of her death is incredibly coincidental with the looming milestone of his civil suit against the County.

Apparently Avery's defense team have now requested carbon dating on the blood in Halbach's vehicle. It should prove that the evidence was planted (or not).

What do you guys reckon?

 

[sirlothie]

Sorry for the intrusion but I found this thread with a search, as I'm watching this series at the moment and wanted to share my thoughts.

The evidence really is against Steve Avery in my conclusion so far.

Consider his history:
* cruelty to animals and the links in research between kids who do this kind of thing being more likely to be criminals as adults
* driving his cousin off the road and threatening her with a gun in his early 20s
* threatening to kill his first wife in letters from prison

Evidence in the Halbach murder:
* her last known location was his salvage yard
* her remains found in the fire pit and his admission they had a bonfire the night she went missing
* her vehicle hidden in his yard
* the number plates removed and discarded in an abandoned car on a road near/behind his cabin
* his DNA found in the blood inside her vehicle (allegedly planted). Tests show no trace of a preservative used in the storage of blood vials for criminal purposes, indicating it was probably new blood
* his DNA found on the latch under the hood of her car (type not known, e.g. Sweat or blood)
* she had been shot in the head and a bullet with her DNA was found in his garage
* the bullet was fired from his gun, hanging in his home (or garage - can't remember which)
* her car key with his blood found in his cabin. This particular piece of evidence seems the one most likely to have been planted or at least tampered with
* his 16 yr old cousin as his only alibi that day

I think the evidence suggests Avery probably did kill Halbach, but that the Manitowoc police interfered when they suspiciously found her key in his cabin after many previous searches by the other investigators turned up nothing. It's very possible they augmented the evidence to secure a conviction.

In regards to the 'confession' of Avery's cousin, again it's very interesting. No doubt he was coerced into telling them what they wanted to hear. It seems like he was a participant in at least disposing of the body, but his knowledge of how she died in truth wasn't there. He seemed to have terrible cognitive aptitude, so you can't really make too much of it either way.

What I'm struggling with is that Steve Avery presents as so convincingly innocent. He doesn't show any give-always of someone lying at all and the timing of her death is incredibly coincidental with the looming milestone of his civil suit against the County.

Apparently Avery's defense team have now requested carbon dating on the blood in Halbach's vehicle. It should prove that the evidence was planted (or not).

What do you guys reckon?

I don't see how carbon dating will prove anything... I mean can it really prove when blood was spilt to the hour or to the day or even to the week? I doubt it. I think now it doesn't really matter for him whether he did it or not, I mean the courts and legal system and police are not going to set him free for being wrongly convicted TWICE, with all the worldwide media attention, they would not smear themselves like that. That's why you do not do even a little crime, you stay well away from that side of life...