Malthouse - under the pump.

[the dog's kennel]

I don't see how recruiting Judd didn't deliver exactly what Carlton had hoped. They had a team due to peak in 2010-2013. Judd delivered excellent performances in those years. You can't blame him or those who recruited him for those failures.

The reason they didn't succeed was because of their p!sspoor drafting and/or development AROUND Judd. How many of their many top draft picks have delivered what you'd expect of them? If their mid-late 00s drafting had delivered what you would have hoped, Judd would have captained them to a premiership.

Arguably the only move they've made over the last 10 years that indisputably worked was to get Judd.

 

[pinot]

You don't watch much football do you? Try watching Hodge or Selwood...

Give me a spell - you will never see Selwood on Daisy lol

If you didn't draft Judd you would of finished lower in 2009 and probably would get another top 3 pick in addition to the one you traded away in 2008.

Rubbish - we were 2 points away from a Preliminary final in 2011 with Kreuzer and Gibbs out injured and they starred that season. In particular Gibbs had an excellent 2011. It just collapsed from there....mystery.

 

[emmjay1990]

As a Pies supporter, liked what Mick did for us (obviously). He is a great strategist and planning type coach who develops players and the team. Just look at our 02 and 03 GF teams - hardly any stars, we should never really have got there on paper. But tactically, especially game day he is reluctant to change it up. This is fine when you're team is great, it doesn't really matter but other times, one positional move might make all the difference. I have no doubt if he's there long enough, the Blues will become formidable but there might be a wait. Pies were wooden spooners in 1999, nearly won a GF in 02 - largely due to him.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Fadge]

Rubbish - we were 2 points away from a Preliminary final in 2011 with Kreuzer and Gibbs out injured and they starred that season. In particular Gibbs had an excellent 2011. It just collapsed from there....mystery.

Ah, this old chestnut never gets old.

West Coast were out on their feet after throwing all they had at the Qualifying Final the week before. Hence they got belted by Geelong the following week.

Carlton had absolutely everything go right for them in 2011, and zero wins from 7 games against the top 4 teams suggests you were still a long way from the legitimate contenders.

 

[gbatman]

I don't see how recruiting Judd didn't deliver exactly what Carlton had hoped. They had a team due to peak in 2010-2013. Judd delivered excellent performances in those years. You can't blame him or those who recruited him for those failures.

The reason they didn't succeed was because of their p!sspoor drafting and/or development AROUND Judd. How many of their many top draft picks have delivered what you'd expect of them? If their mid-late 00s drafting had delivered what you would have hoped, Judd would have captained them to a premiership.

Arguably the only move they've made over the last 10 years that indisputably worked was to get Judd.

Pretty much, you go through our best 22 and there aren't a hell of a lot who you see as match winners or from the national drafting system. It's a combination of Ratten's misjudgement of players and where our list was at and our recruiting.

Most of the players on Carlton's list were not put there in Malthouse time or Shane Roger's. They have walked into this challenge.

We're set up fairly well to rebuild, that's where we'll be heading, try and do it properly this time.

 

[yaco55]

WHAT? He wants to be a long term coach. He is making sure the board know it is a long task and he is the man to do it - as he's done before.

MM will demand and receive the power to build a list that he says will win a flag. Carlton's traditional impatience is a luxury they can not afford. They do not have the financial resources, the football clout or the internal football intellect to do anything else. They will have to ensure their drafting crew are very good and be patient for 3 years while hey do their job. I suspect they need to find the right talent spotter to head up the drafting decision making. MM will have his input in who to exit and which trades & free agents to add but he can't be allowed to pick the 18 year olds. It was disasterous early days at Collingwood when he had input.

This is my issue. I've always wondered whether the coach and the Footy Department have full control over their portfolio. Mick not rebuilding from Day 1 indicates this hasn't changed.

 

[forwardflanker]

Give me a spell - you will never see Selwood on Daisy lol


Rubbish - we were 2 points away from a Preliminary final in 2011 with Kreuzer and Gibbs out injured and they starred that season. In particular Gibbs had an excellent 2011. It just collapsed from there....mystery.

If I had a dollar for every time a Carlton poster pulled the "we were 2 points away from a Preliminary final in 2011" line

 

[Blue Heart]

If I had a dollar for every time a Carlton poster pulled the "we were 2 points away from a Preliminary final in 2011" line

In actual fact, you wouldn't have much cash because it was 3 points away from a Premlim. final ... not 2 points !!!

 

[theaflife]

Dunno what to think of Mick. Carlton have 2 people on there injury list and are just hopeless. They looked much better under Ratten. The whole "played finals in the last 7 seasons" thing really annoyed me. Seriously last year they got in because of the most unique situation in VFL/AFL history not his good coaching.

 

[TheMcGrathMan]

Judd decision was not a bad one, he was the only bloke that showed our youngsters at the time how to train and work hard. We are just not playing a game style suited to the players.. the players want to run & carry its their instinct (walker, simpson, murphy, tuohy, buckley, gibbs, yarran, garlett etc) with crash and bash in the middle (judd, bell, robinson, carrazzo, ellard, Curnow, armfield). Instead we play this slow one on one along the boundary where their instinct is to run and spread and move the ball quick and take risks. At this minute they are low on confidence because they are scare of making mistakes. If the coach is unable to adapt to the playing list strengths then he has to go.

In my opinion, unfortunately it seems that too many of the Blues players (Walker, Murphy, Tuohy, Buckey, Gibbs, Garlett etc) don't want to run the other way, and their crash and bash midfielders are just too much of a liability when other teams have such a heavy focus on clean, efficient disposal from the half back line to their forward line.

If the players don't want to do the basics because they don't like the coaches plans then they have to go.

 

[Seeds]

Give me a spell - you will never see Selwood on Daisy lol


Rubbish - we were 2 points away from a Preliminary final in 2011 with Kreuzer and Gibbs out injured and they starred that season. In particular Gibbs had an excellent 2011. It just collapsed from there....mystery.

Rubbish??? What has 2011 got to do with 2009? Your comment makes zero sense. In any case, getting to the prelims is a long way from winning a premiership. Footscray have done it like 7 times in the past 22 years and where has that got them? Not even a GF birth let alone a premiership. And you didn't even make it to the prelims anyway. You have not even got close to being a serious premiership contender.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

All their senior players have gone backwards. Thats an indictment. Not sure theres one player on the list who can put his hand up and say hes in better form than he was last year, or even better applictaion than last year. Theres probably a couple but for the life of me I cant work out who.

It seems they got rid of the wrong amigo too.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Rubbish??? What has 2011 got to do with 2009? Your comment makes zero sense. In any case, getting to the prelims is a long way from winning a premiership. Footscray have done it like 7 times in the past 22 years and where has that got them? Not even a GF birth let alone a premiership. And you didn't even make it to the prelims anyway. You have not even got close to being a serious premiership contender.

Correct. One needs to remember that until the new teams arrived you only needed to be in the top 25% of teams to make the prelims.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

No mate.

We did that deal to get an established superstar at the club at a time when we were begging for leadership and a player of his quality.

Judd is the least of Carlton's problems. If the club managed the list better we would've done far more with Judd.

On the contrary. Judd is sympomatic of Carltons problems. You gave up your future to get him. What you miss now is a Josh Kennedy and a Chris Masten.

Having failed in the Judd expereiment the Blues have gone back to the well and tried to top up with Thomas, to give Judd a premiership before he retires. The thought process at Carlton is completely flawed.

 

[doppleganger]

Dunno what to think of Mick. Carlton have 2 people on there injury list and are just hopeless. They looked much better under Ratten. The whole "played finals in the last 7 seasons" thing really annoyed me. Seriously last year they got in because of the most unique situation in VFL/AFL history not his good coaching.

Yep, the 7 finals was baffling.

MM had built up a good rep over his last few years at Collingwood, but potting the players after losing the 11 GF meant he lost a few Pies fans.

Y would a Carlton fan seeing there team sitting at 0-4 and playing listless football care about what you did @ Collingwood?

Blues look lost, yet MM is too stubborn to break away from his structures and process.

Will Carlton go for Sheedy next? He WAS a great coach too!

 

[chunkylover53]

All their senior players have gone backwards. Thats an indictment. Not sure theres one player on the list who can put his hand up and say hes in better form than he was last year, or even better applictaion than last year. Theres probably a couple but for the life of me I cant work out who.

It seems they got rid of the wrong amigo too.

Last year we didn't have any players that dramatically improved from 2012 either.

Henderson was the only one I think, and Simpson.

This year Yarran is our only shining light, would be leading our BnF.

MM has literally shown nothing (apart from help fix out football department off-field), to warrant a contract extension at the end of 2015.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Henderson has been a terrible dissapointment this year. Arguably onf of Carltons bigger disappointments so far this season.

Simpson has been off his game too but hes probably jsut overwhelmed by being the only bloke constantly putting in year after year.

 

[Monkey King]

On the contrary. Judd is sympomatic of Carltons problems. You gave up your future to get him. What you miss now is a Josh Kennedy.

We sure would like a Josh Kennedy type right now, but boy, he's been out a lot for WCE since we traded him. Had two good years and an okay one. While this sounds all good, in reality having someone churning out Judd's quality performance is much more what we needed than Kennedy's. Last season is the first season since the trade that I would have actually preferred JK's output to Judd ... and it's an old, old trade these days. Was always going to turn at some point given the age difference. No, I think there's a dozen things more symptomatic of Carlton's problems before you get anywhere near Judd.

 

[Monkey King]

Henderson has been a terrible dissapointment this year. Arguably onf of Carltons bigger disappointments so far this season.

Give it up! The bloke returned from surgery just a couple of weeks before the season. Had a preseason consisting of half a VFL practice match. I suggest to avoid "terrible disappointment", you set some more reasonable expectations. Carlton supporters were questioning why this guy even played in round one.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Give it up! The bloke returned from surgery just a couple of weeks before the season. Had a preseason consisting of half a VFL practice match. I suggest to avoid "terrible disappointment", you set some more reasonable expectations. Carlton supporters were questioning why this guy even played in round one.

Ok fair enough. Didnt realise he was injured. Malthouse playing injured players is par for the course. Cost us the 2011 premiership. Begs the question as to why Casboult wanst selected ahead of him....another player who just cant go to the next level.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

We sure would like a Josh Kennedy type right now, but boy, he's been out a lot for WCE since we traded him. Had two good years and an okay one. While this sounds all good, in reality having someone churning out Judd's quality performance is much more what we needed than Kennedy's. Last season is the first season since the trade that I would have actually preferred JK's output to Judd ... and it's an old, old trade these days. Was always going to turn at some point given the age difference. No, I think there's a dozen things more symptomatic of Carlton's problems before you get anywhere near Judd.

Kennedy is and always will be four years younger than Judd. Masten is six years younger. These two players plus whoever Carlton may have taken with the third top 20 pick the Blues gave away would be the backbone of the Blues mid aged brigade by now. They'll still be motoring away long after Judds career is over, if it isnt over already.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

MK were you happy with Malthouse defending himself with his "past seven years" comment?

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Chris Masten? I can see an argument that Kennedy may be of more value than Judd (he isnt and hasnt been) but Masten? Some are looking to just dig the boots in.

And fair enough to.

 

[Madblue]

MK were you happy with Malthouse defending himself with his "past seven years" comment?

You can on all you want but even in the current situation if Carlton had a choice between Buckley and Malthouse as coach i'd take Mick every day of the week !

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Grave error. Oh dear. You're trying really hard to drag this thread down to bay 13 levels aren't you?

He (Thomas) hasn't played a long stretch of footy since 2012 and is coming off major rehabilitation after getting his ankle fixed.

You've just made a very compelling argument for the stupidity of signing this bloke to a huge, long contract.

Money isn't an issue for us. I thought that would've been pretty obvious.

Huh? Why not?