Mega Thread Matt Rendell situation thread #2

[cmndstab]

I know it's laughable to think that we as AFC members can have any influence or say in things like this, but what can we do to make Trigg accountable for his handling (and complete **** up) or this situation?

He's damaged our brand more than anyone else in the entire history of the club.

The simple answer is, make noise and encourage others to do the same. Write letters to newspapers, ring up radio stations, email the club. Let them know that you're disappointed with what's happened.

Generally when you make noise, nothing will happen... at first. But the next time something goes pear-shaped, the people up top will remember that it's not the first time people have been upset.

 

[Allefgib]

I jsts flicked this through to triggy - if you guys feel as strongly about it as you sound, please do something similar.


Steven,

After watching Matt Rendell's heart-wrenching interview on footy classified I felt compelled to write to you again.

As the leader of our club and man behind the decision to push Matt to resign I believe we, the supporters, deserve to hear from you on why we seem to have hung one our own out to dry.

I've often not agreed with your decisions before in how we choose to handle our public relations. The non-incident with Bernie Vince last week being a prime example. To a degree though I've appreciated why you may have felt you couldn't handle it differently.

This latest situation though - I'm at a loss to understand why on earth you wouldn't let Rendell explain his side of the story.

My understanding at this point is that we couldn't allow the 'mud to stick' to our club that we've made racist recruiting decisions. Surely the club, and Matty, have enough evidence to the contrary to support him being given the opportunity to explain his side of the story?
(if you felt it would never come out like it has I am astounded.. he's far too forthright for it not to)

Surely education, if required - which it sounds like it isn't, is a much better outcome to push for than throwing Matt under the bus?

After watching the interview with Matt Rendell, and matching that with the inconsistencies spouted by the AFL CEO on 'On the Couch' I appreciate you're in a really hot place at the present. One you may have hoped to avoid with the decision to push Matt to resign last week.

I implore you to consider all options in navigating the decisions you will be faced in the next few days - including reinstating Rendell to the club for the rest of the year and supporting further exploration of the suggestions he put forward to Jason Misfud.

Do you truly believe following such a course of action will stick more mud the club than what will stick in hanging someone trying to address the serious issues out to dry? Perhaps I'm being naive, and most certainly I'm ignorant to all of the complexities you face in this - but unfortunately that's the job you signed up for Steven and many of the supporters of the club are crying out for a display of strong leadership from you right now. Please make us proud of our club and be proud of our people, inclusive in our approach to resolving this issue; and uncompromising in pushing for this not to be swept under the carpet.

All the very best, I mean that sincerely, in finding the best way to lead the club out of this mess. Personally I'd love to see you support Matt Rendell and work with him and the AFL to address the real issues that exist with the attrition rate of indigenous AFL footballers. I'm very concerned this is going to end messily.

Please, have the courage to defend our own rather than continuing to defend a brand that becomes more meaningless the more we don't.

I'm not going to threaten to hand in my membership over this - but I can assure you the 10 memberships I helped coordinate to sit together for this coming season (including 3 new memberships) all consider this issue far more worthy of such a decision of principle than Bernie celebrating his cricket teams GF win in a manner I'm sure he's been doing for the best part of a decade. I can only hope the boys enjoyed themselves as much as that on Saturday night after the NAB cup win.

Cheers

Shaun

 

[JP Sauce]

There was one pretty cool suggestion but the thread got deleted

Oh yeah, I seem to remember something...

 

[cmndstab]

There was one pretty cool suggestion but the thread got deleted

You are free to make suggestions, but BF is not the place for mobilising an organised protest. If you want to organise it off-site be my guest to link to it.

 

[Southerntakeover]

You are free to make suggestions, but BF is not the place for mobilising an organised protest. If you want to organise it off-site be my guest to link to it.

Why not? There are all sorts of public campaigns waged through Bigfooty. I bet I could find membership drives etc carried out on the boards.

If people on the board want to discuss options to address what they see as mismanagement of the club, you're telling me its not allowed?

 

[Allefgib]

and vader closing the poll was a joke as well.

why are you guys so concerned about people expressing their views?

have you been told to not allow it?

are you worried its going to be hard to moderate - i kinda get that but it also makes me less sympathetic at the same time..

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

You are free to make suggestions, but BF is not the place for mobilising an organised protest. If you want to organise it off-site be my guest to link to it.

Ok but why is that?

Seems we have no problem generating an email Trigg campaign from here.

 

[cmndstab]

Why not? There are all sorts of public campaigns waged through Bigfooty. I bet I could find membership drives etc carried out on the boards.

If people on the board want to discuss options to address what they see as mismanagement of the club, you're telling me its not allowed?

People are allowed to discuss options, yes. There is a line, however, at which it stops being people discussing options and starts becoming the online equivalent of a lynch mob.

It's hard to define precisely where that line is, of course. To give an example, I'm more than happy for people to organise an email drive here on BF. I'm not happy for people to use BF as a vessel to coordinate a protest out the front of the Westpac centre. The line is somewhere in between.

 

[DANGERZONE123]

This is what people should be emailling Trigg about. Trigg resigning fixes nothing.

"Come Back Matt"

Even if it is just this year, I feel this draft could have been his last anyway.

Yeppers,

Heading into one of the best drafts of all time, we need the man with the experience and the track record. I'm sure Ogilve will do fine, but I'll feel better with Rendell at the recruiting helm, and Ogilve on the wings. To important of a draft to stuff up, and like Rendell said 'This will be the draft to finish our list'.

 

[JP Sauce]

Do people think there's any chance of Rendell coming back to the club?

 

[Allefgib]

Who knows how this mess will end up.

 

[cmndstab]

and vader closing the poll was a joke as well.

why are you guys so concerned about people expressing their views?

have you been told to not allow it?

are you worried its going to be hard to moderate - i kinda get that but it also makes me less sympathetic at the same time..

Mate, cut me some slack here. Have we been told to not allow people to express their views? Of course not. The poll was closed in the interests of keeping things tidy, simple as that. We all know that 95% of Crows fans here are disappointed with the club, the poll tells us nothing we couldn't extrapolate from 1000 posts of discontent in the toher thread. Perhaps we could have left it open. We made a decision and closed it. I don't think it's of massive importance, and it certainly isn't an act of silencing anyone's views. That this thread has had 1000 posts in only a few hours is testament to that.

As for things like organising protests on BF, the distilled reason is that anything that occurs as a direct result of BF leaves the owners liable. Us moderators are obviously not legal experts, so we're not always going to know precisely what is and what is not acceptable. When we're not sure, we're asked to take the approach of closing it down. If it becomes an issue, we clarify it with the administrators later and see if we made the right decision. There have been several times where I've made a decision, checked with the administrators, and been told that it didn't need to be made. Then, when the situation has arisen again, I've held off as a result.

We're just doing the best job we can, following the guidelines we've been given, and I wish people would get off our case about it. I'm furious about this Rendell situation too, and hell, I'd like to be part of a movement that expresses to the club how disappointed I am with what's happened too. But I have been asked to enforce rules here and I'm doing so to the best of my ability. I'm sorry if that doesn't make me seem very "sympathetic" to you but it's the way it is.

 

[Southerntakeover]

People are allowed to discuss options, yes. There is a line, however, at which it stops being people discussing options and starts becoming the online equivalent of a lynch mob.

It's hard to define precisely where that line is, of course. To give an example, I'm more than happy for people to organise an email drive here on BF. I'm not happy for people to use BF as a vessel to coordinate a protest out the front of the Westpac centre. The line is somewhere in between.

Wait, why is there a line there again? I dont believe that you should be drawing the line along those grounds at all. Are you for example happy for me to organise a group of like minded posters to express our opinion about active supporting at games?

Or is it not the nature of the activity thats the issue, but the opinion itself?

Was there anything Carl suggested which was against Bigfooty rules?

 

[cmndstab]

Wait, why is there a line there again? I dont believe that you should be drawing the line along those grounds at all. Are you for example happy for me to organise a group of like minded posters to express our opinion about active supporting at games?

Or is it not the nature of the activity thats the issue, but the opinion itself?

Was there anything Carl suggested which was against Bigfooty rules?

See above.

Yes, I am happy for you to organise a group of posters to express your opinion about active supporting at the games - as you well know.

 

[Allefgib]

Mate, cut me some slack here. Have we been told to not allow people to express their views? Of course not. The poll was closed in the interests of keeping things tidy, simple as that. We all know that 95% of Crows fans here are disappointed with the club, the poll tells us nothing we couldn't extrapolate from 1000 posts of discontent in the toher thread. Perhaps we could have left it open. We made a decision and closed it. I don't think it's of massive importance, and it certainly isn't an act of silencing anyone's views. That this thread has had 1000 posts in only a few hours is testament to that.

As for things like organising protests on BF, the distilled reason is that anything that occurs as a direct result of BF leaves the owners liable. Us moderators are obviously not legal experts, so we're not always going to know precisely what is and what is not acceptable. When we're not sure, we're asked to take the approach of closing it down. If it becomes an issue, we clarify it with the administrators later and see if we made the right decision. There have been several times where I've made a decision, checked with the administrators, and been told that it didn't need to be made. Then, when the situation has arisen again, I've held off as a result.

We're just doing the best job we can, following the guidelines we've been given, and I wish people would get off our case about it. I'm furious about this Rendell situation too, and hell, I'd like to be part of a movement that expresses to the club how disappointed I am with what's happened too. But I have been asked to enforce rules here and I'm doing so to the best of my ability. I'm sorry if that doesn't make me seem very "sympathetic" to you but it's the way it is.

Wasn't asking you to be sympathetic to me mate - and quite happy to cut you slack as you've always engaged willingly and with an open mind.

I get the potential legal issues - actually I don't but that's the point.. happy for you to play that side safe.

What I think is a tad ridiculous is shutting people up because it doesn't 'tell us anything new'. People are here looking to vent their spleen right now - why not just let them have their heads, avoid the legal issues, and stop trying to over moderate.

Or if you're going to over moderate don't be touchy about it at least.. that's when I lose sympathy. 'You've been told to stop making threads'. Anyway I don't want to waste both our times banging on about it - but I just think you guys can let things go a bit looser than you have.. and you'll feel more relaxed and won't have as many people turning their ire your way - that's all. Just trying to help But unfortuntely we know how that can go for people saying the wrong things...

 

[aussierulesrules]

I have been a crow member since I was a 14 yr old child. I lived down the road from west lakes and I walked to the first game against Hawthorn with my brother and fell in love with this team from Adelaide. I had never been to an AFL game before and it was not a game aligned to my cultural background. I save my pocket money every year to buy a membership a smy parents were not football followers and would not have contemplated buying us a ticket for this game they didn'appreciate.

On the topic of racism, as you have probably gathered from the above I was not born in Australia and have through my life been subject to many racial situations growing up in country Australia in dominant Anglo saxon areas and then on a smaller scale in the city from primarily kids who can be the cruelest. I have grown up and all this has done is made me more proud of my culture and who I am.

I must say though that racism however comes from hatred. I didnt care if anyone used my cultural background as a joke or as a throw away comment growing up if I knew that person had no hatred toward me or my culture. But I always knew the diffrence between someone who believed what they were saying and someone who said it with hatred.

I have never sensed that at all from Rendell. Racism is more than just a reference to culture or colour. It is a hatred. Rendell I can see from the bottom of my heart does not have this in his body.

Tonight for the first time I am ashamed to be a member of the Adelaide Football Club and Steven Trigg. He has unfortunately fallen to the corporate facade which I have felt Demitriou has bought to the game of football since becoming its number one man. This does not stand alone- he is constantly trying to leave his mark on the game by way of rule changes, and perceptions of the AFL system. He is actually turning alot of people off I know. The day the corporation became bigger than the sport was a sad day. At the end of the NAB CUP Demetriou strolled across AAMI stadium a lonely figure. Those in the crowd around me were all saying look at Andrew he is walking around on his own. I think this is unfortunately the way this man is going to leave the game(alone).

Terrific post, especially the bolded part. Totally agree. It is the intent behind the actions that are most important.

Really good post by Macca23 as well (on page 4).

 

[cmndstab]

Believe me, if our aim was to make things easier to moderate we'd simply remove the "close thread" button altogether - there are more posts complaining about closed threads than would likely have been in the threads themselves!

In the end, we make decisions. Sometimes those decisions are questionable, or even just plain wrong, but I reckon we get most of them right. As always, I'm happy to field suggestions - though I would prefer if people were to use the PM system as they're really supposed to. If we're going by the actual forum rules, we shouldn't even be having this discussion in the public forums. And, if you really think we've got it wrong and can't get satisfaction, take it up with the administrators and if they think we've been overbearing they'll advise us as to how we should act next time. As much as people are cynical, I can assure you that this does actually happen.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Stabby,

I'm torn here, because I genuinely respect you, but you're doing a mugs work right now. We're bordering on a situation in which we're being told that opinions critical of the club are not allowed. Dont be suprised when we fight that move.

What exactly was illegal about what was posted, which could expose bigfooty to liability?

You're trying to reverse justify though. The reason for the threads deletion was already given:

'Carl's boycott thread got deleted outright because it's just a childish reactive piece of rubbish and the internet is better off without the waste of electrons.'

But hey, thats ok. Carl was atleast told:

"You've posted nothing but drivel continuously for the last 48 hours and the board would be much better off without your contributions."

Wonder how id go posting that at someone.

 

[Allefgib]

ah some root cause analysis.

plus one from me.

Back to Matty R - i'm still waiting to hear from Vader on how he honestly thinks this situation will end up now.

I really struggle to see how mud can't stick to the club now.

 

[cmndstab]

Vader was hot, just as we all were, at the time. It probably wasn't a great way to express himself. I believe closing the thread was the correct move, however. I would have done the same - though expressed my reasons a little more politely Ironic actually, given the topic of the evening. Don't expect Vader to fall on his sword though!

Opinions critical of the club are absolutely not being barred. I don't know where you got that opinion from, but it's not correct. Hell, I've been on BF being critical of the club for the last two hours!!

Some threads got merged to keep them in one place because the front page was getting swamped. Others got closed down because there's only so many ways you can say "I hate Trigg" before it becomes repetitive. The closings were in the minority in this case.

 

[cmndstab]

ah some root cause analysis.

plus one from me.

Back to Matty R - i'm still waiting to hear from Vader on how he honestly thinks this situation will end up now.

I really struggle to see how mud can't stick to the club now.

If I can deign to speak for Vader, I'm sure he'll agree that mud will stick to the club, and will pin the blame squarely on Demetriou.

And I'm sure he'll say that Trigg shares no blame; "none, nada, zilch, zip"

 

[Allefgib]

so where will that leave things...

its about to get messy.

 

[cmndstab]

so where will that leave things...

its about to get messy.

Couldn't agree more. I think the club is going to cop a hammering on radio tomorrow, probably more so than the AFL.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Vader was hot, just as we all were, at the time. It probably wasn't a great way to express himself. I believe closing the thread was the correct move, however. I would have done the same - though expressed my reasons a little more politely Ironic actually, given the topic of the evening. Don't expect Vader to fall on his sword though!

Personal issues have crept into the moderating direction of the board far too often for my liking.

Opinions critical of the club are absolutely not being barred. I don't know where you got that opinion from, but it's not correct. Hell, I've been on BF being critical of the club for the last two hours!!

Actually, its the only real conclusion that can be drawn, if you're comfortable with me forming a mob to carry out a pro club agenda. The only real distinction between the scenarios is the opinion held by the proposed gathering.

 

[Allefgib]

I eagerly await Jen's revelations.