Mega Thread Matt Rendell situation thread #2

[Malibu#27]

Rendell will be on MMM in a couple minutes.
(somethings happened overnight - he's spoken to some third party or something)

 

[Mattrox]

The biggest issue with me is why certain people are given the chance to publically apologize and go on goodwill tours, be educated on the issues etc, but one particular fellow is denied his oppotunity to face the press on his terms and make any kind of statement in his defence. This goes against all that Australia as a democracy stands for. If you are labelled a racist do all your rights as a Human and Australian automatically get stripped?

Since this is such a double standard, I want to know the motivation behind it. There is more to the story, there just has to be. Demetriou et al handled it very badly but refuse to make amends. They came out all guns blazing. Shoot first, never ask any questions at all, and stay silent. This is very grubby, there is the stench of nepotism, crooked sponsorship deals and a pig-headed approach that people (AFL fans) are getting sick and tired of listening to.

This has gone beyond "be careful with the personal pronouns you use because it is easy to offend people".

He got sacked because of a perception, the perception of him by AFL house was wrong. They did him a grave injustice and ignore the fact that their actions were unjust. Guilty (not until proven innocent) just guilty case closed no proper investigation. Un-Australian!

 

[western royboy]

That is a man that has been absolutely gutted by the whole saga, all the best Matt you are an absoulte legend

 

[afc1991]

Hes now fallen into line with the trigg story.

Ali and Misfud dont return his calls.

He's apologised.

Dittmarr- "youve done nothing wrong and everyone is on your side." Im sure dits will come under fire there.

Sounds like hes ready to top himself.

 

[Drakescoffeecake]

He sounds so shattered, but he's all class. Apparently doesn't know Ali at all but spoke highly of Mifsud. "there was more things said, but I don't want to go into that" ... Really want to know what those things were! Taking calls in a tic if anyone wants to jump in, I will be

 

[Dolemite]

Poor guy. He sounds like an absolute wreck who just wants this over and done with. I know he said to not knock the club and afl but I can't. They have been nothing short of disgraceful and need to know it.

 

[Drakescoffeecake]

Ditmar "were all on your side Matty"

5 minutes later

"we can't take sides here Roo"

Well done ********

 

[Drakescoffeecake]

133353 - MMM taking calls

 

[Dolemite]

Time for Ali and Misfud to speak. Rendell has had the courage to answer his side. Where are they? Hiding behind the AFL. Time to man up boys. I really want to hear from this Ali bloke.

 

[Mego Red]

Just highlighted quotes in order as it reads... quotes from Jason Burt, and the way Mark Stevens has worded some of the article, grounds to be taken as offensive, insensitve, ignorant if you want to. I dont by the way, and clearly its not anyones intention.

-"It puts him in a realm where he's obligated to be a strong element in his community. We considered funerals ... when he comes back, and so on." (Jason Burt, Hawthorn welfare and development manager.)


-As part of the initiation, making him a leader in the community, Frank's left front tooth was knocked out. "The process is something they don't talk about too much," Burt said

-After seeing Frank's highlights reel and taking into account the maturity of the Hawks' playing group to deal with the scenario, they embraced the idea.

-"They do get food in there (APY Lands) to their store, but it's very expensive. There's some good stuff mixed in with a hell of a lot of rubbish," Burt said.

-"They would hunt for lizard, kangaroo, emu. Whatever they could really muster up. Lizard is a big part of their diet ... Amos said he eats a lot of damper when he's up there, so it's not a great diet. Here, he loves his salad."


"He knows nouns. He'll pick up on things like 'Want a coffee'. But to actually string a couple of sentences together, he will struggle with that," Burt said.

"He doesn't necessarily sit in meetings, because to be honest it's a waste of time."

-Some of the Hawks have gone as far as learning phrases from Frank's first language, Pitjantjatjara.

"When I first met him I thought 'Bloody hell, you're closer to 30 than you are to 20'."


Heres the story btw

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/afl/afl-our-story-of-the-year/story-e6frexwr-1226302012364

I think you're misunderstanding They meaning "all of indigenous people" with They meaning a particular group from APY Lands (like you might use They meaning people from Tasmania". There is a difference between race and place.

 

[Drakescoffeecake]

Ali's too busy hiding behind twitter. Coward.

 

[SydCrow]

Hey Gazoonga, you seem to be approaching this issue of getting Aboriginal kids into the AFL system and keeping them there from a purely white/western perspective.

That's the problem, that is, you cannot turn Aboriginals into whites and to try to do so, is racist!

That's what Rendell is advocating and that's why he's been pilloried.

it seemed to work OK for Cyril Rioli

look from my perspective Rendell blundered and crossed the line with Mifsud (and the work experience noob). Mifsud then didn't have the "balls" (due to cultural issues?) to confront him about it. When it came out - due to Vlad adopting his usual Godzilla, and frankly unprofessional in this case, style - Trigg couldn't defend him (personally because he had crossed the line and from a club perspective due to the mud sticking problem).

If Rendell honestly thought he was wronged, he would not have resigned. He knew he had blown it and that is why he cried for 30 hours.

Stupid all round but IMO buck stops with Rendell.

 

[Roby]

Just highlighted quotes in order as it reads... quotes from Jason Burt, and the way Mark Stevens has worded some of the article, grounds to be taken as offensive, insensitve, ignorant if you want to. I dont by the way, and clearly its not anyones intention.

-"It puts him in a realm where he's obligated to be a strong element in his community. We considered funerals ... when he comes back, and so on." (Jason Burt, Hawthorn welfare and development manager.)

This first one here is certainly insensitive but not inherently racist. I know plenty of employees who have been refused a day off by their employer because it was suggested that the deceased they were not part of immediate family. This is an issue with corporate Australia and business in general.

-After seeing Frank's highlights reel and taking into account the maturity of the Hawks' playing group to deal with the scenario, they embraced the idea.

This is a culturally sensitive point but the journaist is just reporting the chasm between cultures and assimilation. This is why it's no news to many of us that players from such remote communities struggle to stay in the AFL system as it stands.

-"They do get food in there (APY Lands) to their store, but it's very expensive. There's some good stuff mixed in with a hell of a lot of rubbish," Burt said.

This I am unsure, maybe you can clarify. Are they just not pointing out that the store is not stocked with the same level and diversity that we are provided to have here in our supermarkets? Maybe the reporter would've been best to explain what food types he was suggesting, but I suspect even if he had done research it may just been edited for reasons like word limit.

-"They would hunt for lizard, kangaroo, emu. Whatever they could really muster up. Lizard is a big part of their diet ... Amos said he eats a lot of damper when he's up there, so it's not a great diet. Here, he loves his salad."

The clear thing I see wrong with this is that he mentions that he does not think it's a great diet. The use of pronouns in this is acceptable. I know indigenous people have high regards for their diet, again this may be poorly researched, word limit or just ignorance.

"He knows nouns. He'll pick up on things like 'Want a coffee'. But to actually string a couple of sentences together, he will struggle with that," Burt said.

"He doesn't necessarily sit in meetings, because to be honest it's a waste of time."

It seems to be that while poorly worded, he isn't exempt from doing so. No and in my opinion it wouldn't be a waste of time.

-Some of the Hawks have gone as far as learning phrases from Frank's first language, Pitjantjatjara.

That seems more like acts of the endearment rather than anything else. How often do you see Austrlians willingly learn languages other than English from people who do not speak English?

"When I first met him I thought 'Bloody hell, you're closer to 30 than you are to 20'."

Certainly degrading, but not racist. I have heard similar comments about Amos on the Bigfooty forums.

An Italian player who played for Juventus in Italy's Serie A, Ravanelli, had white hair already in his early 20's. Most people commented they all thought he was 30+ but the comments had nothing to with race. A lot people think Nathan Jones of the Melbourne Demons think he is late 20's because he is bald. He's only just turned 24 in January this year.

-As part of the initiation, making him a leader in the community, Frank's left front tooth was knocked out. "The process is something they don't talk about too much," Burt said

This use of the pronoun is acceptable.

Heres the story btw

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/afl/afl-our-story-of-the-year/story-e6frexwr-1226302012364

Certainly the article could've been written far better in terms of been informative, word usage and cultural differences. It's the reason why I don't read the Herald Sun, and I made view very clear on how ridicolous I think it is that they will charge us to read their articles online when better alternatives like The Age offer it for free. If you check you will see I have only quoted or sourced The Age articles in this issue.

Also you find that McLeod recommended that Amos go to Hawthorn probably due to their good track record in recent years.

 

[WALL-e]

Ali's too busy hiding behind twitter. Coward.

Couldn't help but give him a whack on the BF account.....#awaitingcheifspunishment

 

[Drakescoffeecake]

"This use of the pronoun is acceptable." ???

Says who? You? Everyone has their own theory on what's offensive and what's not but wow we've become so so precious. Unbelievable

 

[afc1991]

I think you're misunderstanding They meaning "all of indigenous people" with They meaning a particular group from APY Lands (like you might use They meaning people from Tasmania". There is a difference between race and place.

They is not offensive in any context imo. Thats where the whole thing goes mad.

The point I was trying to make is its not hard to put a slant on comments from white australians about indigenous ones and make them out to be racist.

 

[King Elvis]

That shows a severe lack of understanding of Australian history. Maybe it wasn't taught to you and you have not had the time to care, but let me ask you this, how many countries are there in Australia?

It seems as though you want to cast all of the ills, issues and injustices (of which there are plenty) at the feet of Rendell

Can you acknowledge that his comments were well-intentioned, even if you disagree with them?

can't help feeling that Ali F is the catalyst here. Is he trying to justify his (arguably tainted) existence by claiming a scalp?

Somebody on the Main Board claims to have worked with him for two years; said he's a w***er.

This whole thing just gets grubbier everyday.

How could Matt not recognise it, if there was so much offense taken at the time? He clearly appeared taken aback during the FC interview when it was suggested that Mifsud was offended.

Why was Mifsud incapable of conveying his alleged indignation to Matt (a mate, who from all accounts he's comfortable around) and subsequently to his superiors? Sounds like this guy has extremely substandard communication skills. Probably on a handy amount of coin too

Mifsud laughed it off to Thomas (according to Grant), and Rendell still considers him a mate.

I don't think he's the main problem here.

Rendell and others still advocate things that are completely at odds with Aboriginal culture.

They either have no understanding whatsoever of basic Aboriginal culture or they do, but think it's "not good for them" to hold onto these cultural ways.

I think you're missing the point mate - it appears that the AFL and it's demands themselves are at odds with the aboriginal culture; a point which apparently Mifsud agreed upon.

Rendell isn't trying to whitewash or ignore their culture - what he's trying to do is give them every opportunity he can to help them play AFL.

McLeod stated that Rendell was a supporter of aboriginal affairs and had consistently made himself available for forums and the like on the matter.

 

[Vader]

I find it remarkable that this whole fiasco has generated two threads, around 1200 posts, when we have nothing but assumption and partial information to work from.

Let's look at what we do know...

Matt Rendell
The man at the centre of the controversy is well loved. He's a straight shooter who doesn't indulge in management double-speak. He has a long established habit of shooting from the lip, which has landed him in trouble on more than one occasion. He's also done a fantastic job as recruitment manager for the Crows, lifting them out of the drafting doldrums that the incompetent Fantasia left them in.

Nobody thinks that he would be intentionally racist, however his habit of talking without thinking may have resulted in him saying things which were racist at heart (or perceived to be so by his listeners). Let me repeat.. nobody, but nobody, thinks that he would say something racist intentionally.

Assumption: 95% of the people on the Adelaide Board are automatically assuming that he's innocent of all charges, based not on the facts (we don't have enough to judge), but on his popularity and "good guy" status.

Jason Mifsud
Long-time friend of Rendell, we don't know a whole lot about him, or what he genuinely thought of the conversation. Worse than that, we've had conflicting reports of his opinions, with Rendell & Thomas stating that he laughed off the conversation with no offence taken; Vlad & Trigg claim that he was "deeply offended". Mifsud's tweets tend to support the establishment side of the story, but there are strong suspicions that he may have been strong armed by the evil Vlad.

Ali Fahour
Fahour probably has cause for defamation against multiple BigFooty posters due to their angry accusations of nepotism. Nobody has stated that he wasn't qualified for his current position, everyone seems to assume that he got it on the back of his brother's position. While it's certainly coincidental that the two are so aligned, there's no evidence of any nepotism.

If little is known of Mifsud then Fahour is a complete mystery man. None of us had even heard of him before yesterday. There are strong suspicions that he is the man behind the racism accusations - suspicions which are supported by his tweets.

Andrew Demetriou
Otherwise known as Vlad, or "the hopped up little dictator". Anyone who is unaware of Vlad must have been living under a rock for the last decade. Vlad is easily the least popular AFL CEO and almost certainly the most powerful. I loathe him with a passion. It is widely thought that he is pursuing Rendell as a vendetta, following Rendell's barbed comments regarding Vlad's love-child (GWS), which everyone else knows will be the biggest waste of money in AFL history.

Vlad's role in this is unclear. However, the lying prick has done himself no favours with the way he's changed his story from one day to the next. There is no doubt at all that he is behind the push to have Rendell sacked, the only question is whether there was sufficient ammunition to justify the sacking itself.

Assumption: Vlad is lying. This one seems fair enough, given that his public statements have often conflicted with each other. Vlad is a politician - it's easy to tell when he's lying, because his lips are moving.

Stephen Trigg
Trigg has been the Adelaide CEO for the last 10 years. Widely regarded as being thoroughly professional, he's made some unfortunate and/or unpopular decisions in recent times - think of the shed entry debacle & Vince's slap on the wrist for prancing around in public wearing nothing but his boxer shorts.

Trigg is the man who was ultimately responsible for Rendell's execution. What he knew & when are not really known with great certainty. Open for debate is whether or not he should have given Rendell time to defend himself publically. Trigg obviously thought not, because he wasted little time in asking for Rendell's resignation.

It's worth noting that Trigg's first responsibility is to the club and it's welfare. If that means dismissing a popular employee in order to prevent the club being tarred with a racist brush, then so be it. That's his job.

Assumption: Trigg has lied to the public. Many people seem to be making this assumption, mostly on the basis that Trigg represents City Hall and everyone likes to stick it to "the man".

Assumption: Trigg had other options available to him, such as placing Rendell on suspension while a thorough investigation was conducted (which further assumes that he would be found innocent as per the first assumption listed above). Trigg obviously thought he had no choice - and I agree with him.

The Conversation
At the heart of this affair is a conversation involving Rendell, Mifsud & Fahour. So far we've only hear half the story, from one person's perspective. Mifsud & Fahour have remained silent, while Rendell's account is incomplete at best.

A story in The Age today indicates that some of the offensive comments relate to "comparing indigenous players with Africans and complaining about problems with punctuality", none of which was mentioned by Rendell in his interview on Monday night.

The Racist Comment
Nobody knows what Mifsud & Fahour allegedly found to be so offensive. I've shown that Rendell's academy concept could well be construed as being racist at heart, albeit entirely innocent in intention. It is alleged (by Trigg) that there were further damning comments by Rendell, which have not yet found their way into the public arena.

A report in The Age today states:

As it emerged yesterday, it was not only the one-white-parent comment that cost Rendell his job, it was the tone of the entire 20-minute conversation.

Nobody thinks that Rendell is racist. Nobody. Not me, not anyone on this board, not anyone who's ever met him. That doesn't mean that he is automatically innocent of having made racist comments, comments made out of ignorance, without thinking.

The Road to the Gallows
The AFL's timeline is decidedly blurry. Vlad has never bothered to answer any questions about what he knew & when - and neither Mifsud nor Fahour have said anything in public. We know that the conversation took place in January, but only became public knowledge in March, not coincidentally at the same time as Jurrah was (allegedly) burying a machete in the head of someone in Alice Springs. Why the two month delay, if Rendell's (alleged) crime was so heinous? Vlad refuses to be drawn on the subject.

Our story picks up with the news landing on Trigg's desk.

Trigg became aware of the problem last Wednesday. We know he spoke with Mifsud at length and was therefore fully aware of the comments which got Rendell in trouble - he wasn't working off the same half-information that we here at BigFooty are. As late as Thursday he was considering the possibility of mediation between Mifsud & Rendell, together with re-Nedification for Rendell. Those plans went out the window when the media got involved on Friday.

Once the media got involved Trigg's options evaporated. He couldn't keep things quiet, thus mediation and re-Nedification were off the cards. His primary concern was to keep Adelaide's image clean, preventing it from being marred by the stain of racism. In his mind, he had no choice but to seek Rendell's resignation and it had to happen immediately.

 

[Smoooothy]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...or-racial-fracas/story-e6freck3-1226306389043

favourite part of the article

"Obviously, they (Mifsud and Fahour) have taken offence. It is a fair time after the meeting, but that is irrelevant.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

Hey Gazoonga, you seem to be approaching this issue of getting Aboriginal kids into the AFL system and keeping them there from a purely white/western perspective.

That's the problem, that is, you cannot turn Aboriginals into whites and to try to do so, is racist!

That's what Rendell is advocating and that's why he's been pilloried.

You are struggling to understand...

No one is trying to turn anyone white...

Rendell is trying to get the AFL to "offer" FREE SCHOLARSHIPS TO PRESTIGIOUS COLLAGES to Indigenous kids.... OFFER is the key word...

No one is stealing children.. No one has to come....

You don't understand do you...

 

[afc1991]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...or-racial-fracas/story-e6freck3-1226306389043

favourite part of the article

Mine too.

 

[Freddy Bassett]

I find it remarkable that this whole fiasco has generated two threads, around 1200 posts, when we have nothing but assumption and partial information to work from.

I don't.... Not one bit...

I am filthy at the AFL, The Crows and those two insecure peanuts who have dragged Rendell down.... This is not going away any time soon...

I will NEVER forgive Steven Trigg for this

Only time I have ever though of sending my membership and any Crows gear I have to the club and saying get ****ed.

Can't see myself in Teal though...

 

[western royboy]

Andrew Demetriou
Otherwise known as Vlad, or "the hopped up little dictator". Anyone who is unaware of Vlad must have been living under a rock for the last decade. Vlad is easily the least popular AFL CEO and almost certainly the most powerful. I loathe him with a passion. It is widely thought that he is pursuing Rendell as a vendetta, following Rendell's barbed comments regarding Vlad's love-child (GWS), which everyone else knows will be the biggest waste of money in AFL history.

No, Im sorry - I can't have that - Ross Oakley stands alone in this regard. The remainder is correct

 

[Big Gazoongas]

Hey Gazoonga, you seem to be approaching this issue of getting Aboriginal kids into the AFL system and keeping them there from a purely white/western perspective.

That's the problem, that is, you cannot turn Aboriginals into whites and to try to do so, is racist!

That's what Rendell is advocating and that's why he's been pilloried.

Really?? Where have I advocted this?? Id suggest you read my comment again and if you come to the same conclusion you really should leave and not post here again.

So I have asked how we can solve this problem without anyone taking offence and you have the gaul to suggest I am looking at this from a white perspective.

You see all you have done is reinforce what I have said, quote how do we solve these issues without being afraid of people pulling the "Racism" or "highly offensive" card out.
No matter what is said, no matter the context no matter the forum you can guarantee the "racism" card rears its ugly head.

I love reading posts by moral crusaders like yourself....never offering anything constructive in the way of a resolution but the first to be banging their chest with racism.

Your'e really starting to smell like a troll, I'd suggest you take a hike!!

 

[Geoffa32]

I find it remarkable that this whole fiasco has generated two threads, around 1200 posts, when we have nothing but assumption and partial information to work from.

I don't.... Not one bit...

I am filthy at the AFL, The Crows and those two insecure peanuts who have dragged Rendell down.... This is not going away any time soon...

I will NEVER forgive Steven Trigg for this

Only time I have ever though of sending my membership and any Crows gear I have to the club and saying get ****ed.

Can't see myself in Teal though...

This is how I felt on Friday afternoon before the presser.

I wanted Rendell out of my club because we then "knew" he was a racist.

Had he stayed on I fear what my reaction would have been, I may not have gone to the game Saturday night in protest.


But now with more information I don't know what I "know" about the situation. I am certain that Rendell is not the monster he was portrayed as, but dont know exactly who was behind his demise and what the "end game" really is.
I doubt the truth will ever get out and we will ever know exactly what transpired.

But the club is bigger than one man, and bigger than one mans actions. Even if you disagree with the CEO, stopping your support of the club achieves nothing. And robs you of the pleasure the club gives you.