Oppo Camp Max Lynch (Traded to Hawks 2021)

[JLC]

I’m not sure what match you were watching, but we were the dominant stoppage team all day. Our problem was execution I70 which cost us about 4-5 goals in the first 3 quarters. Nothing to do with Grundy and Cameron.

I was watching a ruckman that could barely run and get to contests. Second level near the 50m and had a perfect view and pretty much just watched Grundy for extended periods. So pretty confident with what i am saying.

 

[Scodog10]

I was watching a ruckman that could barely run and get to contests. Second level near the 50m and had a perfect view and pretty much just watched Grundy for extended periods. So pretty confident with what i am saying.

I saw it very differently at ground level centre wing. He’s always been a plodder and was the dominant big man on the ground.

 

[jonmacTrag]

I saw it very differently at ground level centre wing. He’s always been a plodder and was the dominant big man on the ground.

Agreed again Dempsey was no gazelle, neither was Mick Nolan but they held sway because they influenced every contest they made.

 

[JLC]

I saw it very differently at ground level centre wing. He’s always been a plodder and was the dominant big man on the ground.

yes he was better than Choi.

He did not look confident in his body. To me it seemed like his shin? I will watch again this week to see if he does the Cliff Young shuffle.

 

[TradeDraft]

Lynch helping his Trade Value in the VFL vs Richmond

 

[JLC]

Lynch helping his Trade Value in the VFL vs Richmond

A ruckman is generally a long term project. Now that I have seen Lynch play seniors as well as Vfl, I feel a connection with him. The belief and talent are starting to come through.

 

[Kappa]

I don’t think he will be stuck behind him. Let them work together. We are yet to see that?

Why can’t we turn two potentially strong ruckman into a competitive advantage? Horses for courses? Gws want to throw Mumford at us then he can take on two ruckman.

That can only work if one of them can go forward and have an impact, both look like terrible forwards

 

[Anzacday]

was the dominant big man on the ground

As he should be given the opposition.
If North came to us with pick 1+ I'd take it.
My only fear is losing another heart and soul player.

 

[TradeDraft]

As he should be given the opposition.
If North came to us with pick 1+ I'd take it.
My only fear is losing another heart and soul player.

Bit Hard when he wants to Play AFL and has Grundy ahead of him

 

[Stripes B and W]

That can only work if one of them can go forward and have an impact, both look like terrible forwards

Terrible is a bit strong for Grundy I think, he has worked fwd and shown a little bit as a forward this year. I do agree though the mix isn't dangerous enough fwd to really be effective.
From what ive seen Grundy is a threat when he works over the oppo ruck rather than actually playing as a fwd.

Lynch really has improved, is in the sweet spot age for a developing ruck having done 3 or 4 pre seasons and be physically almost there. Can we keep him happy as the second in line ruck, he moves up our totem pole with Cox certain to be gone? Does him staying help us on field over the course of say, a 2 year deal?
What will he be worth at the trade table? Prob the most interesting of our list decisions this post season.

 

[Kappa]

Terrible is a bit strong for Grundy I think, he has worked fwd and shown a little bit as a forward this year. I do agree though the mix isn't dangerous enough fwd to really be effective.
From what ive seen Grundy is a threat when he works over the oppo ruck rather than actually playing as a fwd.

Lynch really has improved, is in the sweet spot age for a developing ruck having done 3 or 4 pre seasons and be physically almost there. Can we keep him happy as the second in line ruck, he moves up our totem pole with Cox certain to be gone? Does him staying help us on field over the course of say, a 2 year deal?
What will he be worth at the trade table? Prob the most interesting of our list decisions this post season.

Grundy's biggest ever goal haul for a season is 11 after nine season in the AFL, he is a non-factor as a forward.

 

[Stripes B and W]

N

Grundy's biggest ever goal haul for a season is 11 after nine season in the AFL, he is a non-factor as a forward.

Not in disagreement K, but Grundy has average a goal a game over his last 9 games playing basically as a ruckman. I think he could be a 25 goal option but you are right, he will always be primarily a ruck.
I'd like us to explore what Lynch can offer before its a given he leaves. Prospects such as him are pretty rare. What i have seen in the past 6 weeks has turned me into a believer.

 

[Kappa]

N

Not in disagreement K, but Grundy has average a goal a game over his last 9 games playing basically as a ruckman. I think he could be a 25 goal option but you are right, he will always be primarily a ruck.
I'd like us to explore what Lynch can offer before its a given he leaves. Prospects such as him are pretty rare. What i have seen in the past 6 weeks has turned me into a believer.

Grundy is very poor at pack marking and slow on the lead, he just gets in the way of our other forwards if he's permanently down there...

 

[Scodog10]

As he should be given the opposition.
If North came to us with pick 1+ I'd take it.
My only fear is losing another heart and soul player.

I don’t think it’s that cut and dried. Lynch is dangerous (especially with Madgen exiting D50), Reiwoldt had similar opposition to Grundy in terms of a favourable matchup, I don’t rate Astbury, Roughead is a good defender, Mihocek is more than capable and Cameron on his day can be damaging. The only big man on the ground to get near him in terms of dominance on the day I felt was Garthwaite who didn’t seem to lose too many 1 v 1’s, but still gave Mihocek plenty of looks.

I think you’ll find if you read my views in their entirety rather than cherry picking one half sentence from a group of posts that I too would take that deal in a heartbeat. The problem is I’m more chance of coaching Collingwood next year than North offering their first pick.

 

[Scodog10]

N

Not in disagreement K, but Grundy has average a goal a game over his last 9 games playing basically as a ruckman. I think he could be a 25 goal option but you are right, he will always be primarily a ruck.
I'd like us to explore what Lynch can offer before its a given he leaves. Prospects such as him are pretty rare. What i have seen in the past 6 weeks has turned me into a believer.

Spot on. Grundy kicks his goals as a ruckman not as a forward. The only thing worse than paying a ruckman $7m over 7 years is paying them $7m over 7 years to be a below average forward just so you can hold onto a below average ruckman.

 

[Anzacday]

I don’t think it’s that cut and dried. Lynch is dangerous (especially with Madgen exiting D50), Reiwoldt had similar opposition to Grundy in terms of a favourable matchup, I don’t rate Astbury, Roughead is a good defender, Mihocek is more than capable and Cameron on his day can be damaging. The only big man on the ground to get near him in terms of dominance on the day I felt was Garthwaite who didn’t seem to lose too many 1 v 1’s, but still gave Mihocek plenty of looks.
I think you’ll find if you read my views in their entirety rather than cherry picking one half sentence from a group of posts that I too would take that deal in a heartbeat. The problem is simple I’m more chance of coaching Collingwood next year than North offering their first pick.

I took “big man” to mean ruck - apologies for confusion.
As for the cherry picking, I merely responded to your last post.
My comment about North was simply stating my view, not questioning yours.

 

[Scodog10]

I took “big man” to mean ruck - apologies for confusion.
As for the cherry picking, I merely responded to your last post.
My comment about North was simply stating my view, not questioning yours.

Responding to one post in a chain can lead to a loss of context and had you gone through the chain you’d have realised our views on Grundy probably align because I would move him if the opportunity presents itself. Unfortunately it won’t in any realistic way.

Supporters have come a long way with their footy knowledge as a collective, but what we still lack is the understanding of the salary cap as a tradable commodity. Smart clubs don’t just trade players and picks anymore they trade salary cap space which effectively rules us out of trading Grundy (if the people in charge learned anything from the disaster that was Ned Guy). Without the ability to move Grundy we need to move Lynch unfortunately.

 

[jackcass]

Terrible is a bit strong for Grundy I think, he has worked fwd and shown a little bit as a forward this year. I do agree though the mix isn't dangerous enough fwd to really be effective.
From what ive seen Grundy is a threat when he works over the oppo ruck rather than actually playing as a fwd.

Lynch really has improved, is in the sweet spot age for a developing ruck having done 3 or 4 pre seasons and be physically almost there. Can we keep him happy as the second in line ruck, he moves up our totem pole with Cox certain to be gone? Does him staying help us on field over the course of say, a 2 year deal?
What will he be worth at the trade table? Prob the most interesting of our list decisions this post season.

Both Grundy and Lynch have shown a capacity to work forward and impact the scoreboard when playing in the ruck. That's a bit different than actually lining up in the F50. Cameron and Cox both better forward and we can see how they can disappear out of games playing there.

 

[The Young Chevalier]

At some point this year I hope we give Grundy and Lynch a block of games playing in the same side. It might not work but it is the only way to know for sure and we have little else to lose.

 

[Anzacday]

Responding to one post in a chain can lead to a loss of context and had you gone through the chain you’d have realised our views on Grundy probably align because I would move him if the opportunity presents itself.

Fair call and yes we do agree.

 

[jonmacTrag]

Nobody who is playing for the jumper takes advantage of his club to the extent Grundy has.

I still have respect for his abilities but I see him now simply as a commodity, he has lost the right to my loyalty by his actions.

 

[gouki88]

Nobody who is playing for the jumper takes advantage of his club to the extent Grundy has.

I still have respect for his abilities but I see him now simply as a commodity, he has lost the right to my loyalty by his actions.

There are many professional athletes who do this. It's the way the world is turning

 

[jonmacTrag]

There are many professional athletes who do this. It's the way the world is turning

I'm well aware of this nevertheless it is MY view so move on.

 

[sr36]

Grundy yes.

My high level preference is Grundy out Lynch number 1 ruckman in 2022 and not because of the quality of the two (Grundy’s a 9.5/10 ruckman whereas Lynch is a 5/10 and we’re speculating on him getting to a 7-9/10 level), but purely because of the terrible contract we’ve given Grundy. Unfortunately the only way that happens is a Treloar scenario where we push him out, get poor trade value and pay a portion of his salary.

Not to labour the point, but we recently went toe to toe on Pendlebury’s wage. If he wasn’t on $700k in 2021 then Treloar would still be on our books and if he was still on our books we could take the hit on Grundy. It’s a chain reaction of bad decisions that will tie our hands on making smart decisions in the future.

Moving back to Lynch. Without the ability to play forward Lynch needs to find a new home. As it’s unfolding though I think people could be surprised with the trade value we get for him. He’ll be the ruckman in the VFL team of the year which now holds more weight with 14 AFL aligned clubs in the competition so I suspect he’ll be on the radar of a number of clubs. That adds a factor that we didn’t have with Stephenson, Treloar and Phillips which is competition. I can see all of Geelong, North, WC and Hawthorn chasing him for various reasons.

FWIW criticism of Grundy is completely unwarranted on a form basis. The guy was dominant yesterday and we were dominant at stoppages because of it. If it weren’t for his ridiculously high standards and injury he’d be in the AA discussion. He’s also only played two bad games this year v the Bulldogs and Saints where he was double teamed in both. That’s on us to use Cameron better.

I think Doggies will be interested too. Martin made them better, is 34 and has missed a heap of games the last 2 years.

 

[Black_White]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
And the impact of a ruckman on a game of AFL is hotly debated.
But if I could go back in that time machine I’d keep Witts and trade Grundy.