Melbourne Cup

[Silent Alarm]

Flemington is a dead end station. There's only one way the train goes.

Flemington? Nah don’t you mean Showgrounds?

 

[hilly]

I wish I got it (the party that seems to go with it) but I don't get it.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[tandino]

Hate it.

I'm not an animal libber and will accept that animals have to die so I can eat a steak, and thats just a utilitarian judgment we make about killing for food, but do we really need to kill for entertainment?
.

But we don't have to kill for food. That would skew the utilitarian judgment.

We kill cows because steak is tasty. Not because we need to eat steak.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

Killed a horse because it was cheaper. What a shock. "But we LOVE the horses!" - industry

Lol. You clearly have absolutely no clue

 

[Jpw22511]

It sucks. Hope it rains all day.

Nice 16 year bump reigns lover

 

[Better Loosen Up]

It's hardly a life threatening injury. They would fix a dog if it had the same problem. But race horses are treated more like cattle than pets.

Oh really? How can you say that without knowing the extent of the injury. I'm more inclined to back the vets judgement.

Not all shoulder fractures are repairable

 

[Viva la Mattner]

Some of the do gooders have NFI
It is not cheaper to put them down, thus why euthanised!

It is in fact more humane, a horse is standing for the majority of its day and their legs are unable to heal with 800kg of weight on a matchstick leg
And putting it in a sling and elevated only weakens the other muscles

Trainers generally have the horses welfare as thier main focus. If they aren't looked after they can't make a living!

Take a walk around Lindsay Park, Goldophin, Aga Khan stables, Coolmore or Ballydoyle and tell me it's inhumane!
They live like Kings better off than most of us

 

[Lethality]

Trainers generally have the horses welfare as thier main focus

A couple of horses die in racing alone every week, so they're doing a hell of a job.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Flemington? Nah don’t you mean Showgrounds?

Showgrounds has 1 platform that well gets used for terminating moves during for the show. For race trains it's used as the citybound track with a track next to act is racecourse bound trains.

 

[Viva la Mattner]

A couple of horses die in racing alone every week, so they're doing a hell of a job.

Righto...
Here's some simple math let's use today as an example there was 82 throughbred races all around Australia.
That's 1 day lets say average 10 horses per race that's 820 horses multiply by 7 that's 5,740 horses in a week if 2 are euthanised a week that's a mortality rate of 0.03 %
Hardly a massive issue

 

[Ry009]

Righto...
Here's some simple math let's use today as an example there was 82 throughbred races all around Australia.
That's 1 day lets say average 10 horses per race that's 820 horses multiply by 7 that's 5,740 horses in a week if 2 are euthanised a week that's a mortality rate of 0.03 %
Hardly a massive issue

Not sure "not that many horses die" is an acceptable argument.

 

[Lethality]

Righto...
Here's some simple math let's use today as an example there was 82 throughbred races all around Australia.
That's 1 day lets say average 10 horses per race that's 820 horses multiply by 7 that's 5,740 horses in a week if 2 are euthanised a week that's a mortality rate of 0.03 %
Hardly a massive issue

In the scheme of things any form of abuse isn't going to lead to a large percentage of total deaths, but that's not to say it shouldn't be put to an end.
2 a week on the racetrack alone is bad enough when horses are being killed for our entertainment. It's also just the tip of the iceberg of injuries, off-track deaths, stable abuse.

 

[kickazz]

In the scheme of things any form of abuse isn't going to lead to a large percentage of total deaths, but that's not to say it shouldn't be put to an end.
2 a week on the racetrack alone is bad enough when horses are being killed for our entertainment. It's also just the tip of the iceberg of injuries, off-track deaths, stable abuse.

They are not being killed for entertainment. Nobody was entertained by the death.

 

[Lethality]

They are not being killed for entertainment. Nobody was entertained by the death.

They're entertained by a lethal sport, death is part of the game.

 

[BuddysBiggestFan]

Every horse I bet on in the Cup dies.

I might be the problem here.

 

[kickazz]

Posted in the other thread:

The utility that animals provide us, and in turn, how we as the dominant species treat them is an area of discussion that is pretty complex morally.

No, animals should not be dying for our entertainment. But in horse racing that is not happening, their racing is entertaining, their deaths are most certainly not. This isn't cockfighting we are talking about here. The deaths happen, nobody likes it, and we must be vigilant for their welfare. The welfare of the animals is very important, and needs to be considered against the utility they provid

I would posit that across the board, horse racing fares pretty well when it comes to the utility / welfare relationship.

People still want pugs as pets even though breeding then that way increases respiratory problems.

Every time you eat an egg, first be thankful for the hen that laid it. But then try not to think that for every hen out there, a male chick was born. And if you don't know how those cute little inconveniences are disposed of then you probably don't want to.

Shit even hard core vegans would be upset to learn about the deaths to animals caused via ripping up land to plant food.

There are many examples of varying degrees. This post isn't meant to be an attempt at relative privation (whataboutism); I just think by and large the raving industry fares very well.

Sure it needs to be constantly vigilant about animal welfare, and genuine concern/criticism should be welcomed. Unfortunately, the "once a year-ers" seem to have a different motivation, one based simply in wowserism because they don't like other people having fun in a hobby that isn't quite their cup of tea.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

They're entertained by a lethal sport, death is part of the game.

Lets face it, your stance of banning racing is a pointless discussion because it's just not going to happen anytime soon if at all.

A more worthwhile discussion, i would have thought, is how do we make it safer and how do we reduce wastage.

This discussion has already been had many times and as a result, positive changes to the industry have been made over time. Vic racing now has one of the lowest mortality rates in the world.

There will always be terribly sad incidents on occasion like today with The Cliffsofmoher. But it's no different to horses being owned as pets or used on farms as work horses. Do you have any figures on their weekly mortality rates? I bet you don't because lets face it, it doesn't suit your agenda.

These horses are not necessarily being forced to race against their will. Any trainer will tell you that it is extremely difficult to the point of being pointless to try and get a 600kg horse to do something it doesn't want to do.

If you think it is not natural for an animal to want to race, take yourself down to a whippet open day at Sandown Park and you will see those dogs practically losing their minds in excitement to get out on the track and run around. There's no money exchanging hands, there's no prizes on offer. It's basically just a dog meet.

You're hysterical wording doesn't really help your cause either i might add.

 

[kickazz]

Seeing a whippet in full flight is amazing.

 

[Lethality]

But it's no different to horses being owned as pets or used on farms as work horses. Do you have any figures on their weekly mortality rates? I bet you don't because lets face it, it doesn't suit your agenda.

Mortality rates would only be relevant when they pertain to an animal being made to do a dangerous and frivolous activity. Proper use of work horses or pets doesn't fit that bill.

These horses are not necessarily being forced to race against their will. Any trainer will tell you that it is extremely difficult to the point of being pointless to try and get a 600kg horse to do something it doesn't want to do.

I think we'll be getting bogged down in semantics if we're going to discuss the will of a racehorse. We can at least assume however, they're not running the Melbourne Cup or other horse races without human intervention.

If you think it is not natural for an animal to want to race, take yourself down to a whippet open day at Sandown Park and you will see those dogs practically losing their minds in excitement to get out on the track and run around. There's no money exchanging hands, there's no prizes on offer. It's basically just a dog meet.

I think you're missing the point if you're trying to point out that animals occasionally like to run.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

I would consider hearding unpredictable livestock, at times, at high speed and on uneven or unpredictable ground a dangerous activity. But once again, those mortality rates don't suit your agenda so i guess you're happy to turn a blind eye.

Once again, go down to a whippet meet, talk to the owners and see it for yourself. Being put in a starting box and running around a designated track with other dogs is very different to going for a run at the local park. But once again, you would never do this because it doesn't suit your agenda.

 

[kickazz]

Mortality rates would only be relevant when they pertain to an animal being made to do a dangerous and frivolous activity. Proper use of work horses or pets doesn't fit that bill.

What's frivolous? What's proper? Does your definition apply to everyone else in the world?

Surely having a pet is frivolous. You don't need it. You just want it, and for the most part, the pet is happy sacrificing their freedom for that arrangement too.

 

[Lethality]

What's frivolous? What's proper? Does your definition apply to everyone else in the world?

I was clarifying my position, and how it differs from having a service animal or a pet.

Surely having a pet is frivolous. You don't need it. You just want it, and for the most part, the pet is happy sacrificing their freedom for that arrangement too.

I was referring to frivolous activities the animal is being subject to, not the frivolity of owning a pet. Also, danger is an important part of that equation. I wouldn't put a pet in harm's way unless it was important. That's part of the responsibility of owning an animal, which these racehorse owners seem able to ignore.

 

[Lethality]

I would consider hearding unpredictable livestock, at times, at high speed and on uneven or unpredictable ground a dangerous activity.

Except it's not. I've herded livestock, only ever felt my own life being in danger.

Once again, go down to a whippet meet, talk to the owners and see it for yourself. Being put in a starting box and running around a designated track with other dogs is very different to going for a run at the local park. But once again, you would never do this because it doesn't suit your agenda.

I don't know why you keep talking about dog meets.

 

[quotemokc]

What about dogs (among other animals) used in the police force and military?

Sure the numbers are nowhere near as high but these are still mammals being trained to go into legitimately dangerous situations.

 

[mr bagcroft]

Shit sport is shit.