My view of how we vote

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Frodo

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 17, 2000
12,447
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Perth, Western Australia.
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Whether we like it or not we are programmed from birth to react and make decisions based upon that programming.
This is a broad generalisation but children fall into three major catagories.
1) Below average income families
2) Average income families
3) Above average income families

The broad majority are in the second catagory.

All children have three main programmers being parents, teachers and peers.

Catagory 1 children will be subjected to programming by socialist parents because their parents are largely state dependent and have a belief in equality (which means they get more for doing nothing more). Public schools are dominated by socialist teachers. The sheep mentality of the playground means supporting socialism to be accepted. The child will in 99% of chances vote Labour in the first two elections eligable for them.

Category 2 children are 70% a catagory 1 but 30% will have parents who are sacrificing a lot to send them to private school whee a more balanced environment exists. Some will be strong socialists and others will tend to Liberal views with peer pressure outside of the school tending socialist and in the home tending Liberal. So in their first two elections the vote is likely to be 70/30

Category 3 children have a strong Liberal home life and a balanced school situation. However, the peer groups often excercise lateral persuasions and a common result is afections to minority parties. The first two elections are likely to be 50% Liberal and 50% of mixed parties.

At the age of 24+ these children are now adults and many start to think for themselves and challenge their programming.
For some it is the simple fact that they have worked hard, done well and are earning good wages. They wonder why they should pay more tax than the next man for getting the same services for example. They see the trade unions for what they really are. They see taxpayers money squandered on ideology. Many then start to change their minds about who to vote for. Unfortunately ther also are many that go to the grave without challenging their programming.

The result is a huge socialist vote for the under 25's which in time many will change. Of course this is a huge generalisation and individuals can prove their own circumstances to be different. But I have seen this trend over many years. My first two votes were Labour, coming from a working class family where my father was a union convenor it was a predictable vote. But the writing was on the wall. My Father had resigned as a convenor becase he was fighting for 'a fair days pay for a fair days work' and the union said he was wrong. They wanted as much as they could get for doing as little as possible. Still, I could not vote for the opposition because my programming had them as the enemy. The coal mining strike in UK lead by Joe Gormley that brought down the Heath government was my turning point. "How could a trade union be alowed to bring down an elected government, I asked." I still voted Labour but the new leader was Michael Foot, an old guy that looked like a derelict that wore a raincoat that looked 50 years old and had never been cleaned. That was not an image I wanted for a leader. Thatcher came and the mining union tried to bring the government down again. This time not the astute Gormley but a political fool called Scargill who had no care for the miners, only his ideology. He called a strike in the spring time, a time when demand for coal was low. But he caused power cuts during spring and summer. Had he waited until Autumn there is no doubt he would have won but he wanted rid of Thatcher fast and scarificed the whole of the coal mining industry for his socialis/communist ideology. That was the turning point for me. I started to reflect on the nightshift beds at Rover and British Leyland I had seen and the fact that workers were only alowed to manufacture the number of components allowed by the union even though half the day they were left with nothing to do. And many more instances where the caring trade union of the 1930's had become a domineering unaring ideological albatross. Still, although Labour in the UK was influenced by the unions it was controlled by the grass roots members. Not so in Australia where the ACTU effectively is the Labour party. Of course so many left UK after Thatcher defeated Scargill and came here, now pulling the Labour party strings.

Ehhh well, I guess the bible tells us what not to do with our pearls but maybe someone will gain a little understanding and maybe challenge their programming.
 
My view on how we vote:-

Labor puts the Country in huge debt and our interest rates on our home loans go up so much, we are put into a recession.

Liberals have to come in and put hard policies in to peg back our debt and try to run the Country in the black. During this course our interest rates go down and we start to feel optomistic again.

Labor come in again and tell us the the Rich man is the bad person and we should blame him for all our troubles and Labor are promising great benefits and free money so we should vote for them..................

So, the cycle begins again.............
 
Frodo, I think your pretty much right. I come from a household where my Dad had a high income, and Mum stayed at home. She now works though. My Dad is a swinging voter (though votes Lib more often than Lab), where as mum is definitely a conservative voter. I also went to a low fee private school. I am 20 and will be voting in my first Federal election. I feel very strongly towards the conservative side of politics. In our household we love talking politics, which I think is a good thing :). I plan on voting for Libs for Forests, then directing my preferences to the Liberal Party. In the senate I think I will vote for the Nationals, would like to see Hendy Cowan get in, he seems to be a pretty honest politician, which is not something you can say about most. Having spent 20 odd years in the state politics, he knows how to get things done. So yeh, I definitely think your parents play a great part in shaping how you vote.
 

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You're right there Frodo, my grandparents were stanch supporters of the Labor Party (they were card-carrying members for 30 years) and my dad was as well, but after he got a job as an office boy at Boral and seeing the corruption of the BLF and other communist slack-arses, he bacame a swinging voter who has voted for Labor, Liberal and Democrats according to the issues at the time.

The same goes for me, I voted Labor in the senate and Inderpendent in the house of representivives in the last federal election because of the GST, the last Victorian State election. I voted for a conservitive inderpendent (a small l Liberal) because voting for Labor in the house of reps. is a waste of time, and for the Democrats in the upper house.
 
Originally posted by Wayde Petersen
You're right there Frodo, my grandparents were stanch supporters of the Labor Party (they were card-carrying members for 30 years) and my dad was as well, but after he got a job as an office boy at Boral and seeing the corruption of the BLF and other communist slack-arses, he bacame a swinging voter who has voted for Labor, Liberal and Democrats according to the issues at the time.

The same goes for me, I voted Labor in the senate and Inderpendent in the house of representivives in the last federal election because of the GST, the last Victorian State election. I voted for a conservitive inderpendent (a small l Liberal) because voting for Labor in the house of reps. is a waste of time, and for the Democrats in the upper house.

There are very few like you who vote because of the issues. I would dearly like to have a true Labour party to vote for rather than trade union puppets and when I see the damage the trade union has done to Australian industry I cannot support them. I voted for Margaret Thatcher for her strength in swinging the pendulum away from Union Rule in UK and I would vote for a Thatcher in Australia now. But once it was done and Labour became a party of the people rather than the union and Liberals lost touch just as Thatcher did then I would vote Labour again.
 
I voted for thatcher before I 'grew up'

I vote labour for one reason only. I am one person and they protect my rights in contract (employment) negotiations better than the other side.

And this curren government in australia is the high taxing one, remember that. Jeff kennet was too. They get away with murder in the press.
 
Originally posted by Frodo


There are very few like you who vote because of the issues. I would dearly like to have a true Labour party to vote for rather than trade union puppets and when I see the damage the trade union has done to Australian industry I cannot support them. I voted for Margaret Thatcher for her strength in swinging the pendulum away from Union Rule in UK and I would vote for a Thatcher in Australia now. But once it was done and Labour became a party of the people rather than the union and Liberals lost touch just as Thatcher did then I would vote Labour again.


So you are saying Thatcher was a person for the people?

Yeah right, as long as you are earning enough.

I can't take anyone seriously who thinks there is a level playing field.

Not all Unions are communitst or self interested such as teh BLF for instnace.

Would you say the Union fighting for the rights of Ansett workers is doing the wrong thing

If the ACTU control the Labor party - the Melbourne Club controls the Liberal Party


I too grew up in Thatcher's England.

All I can say is thank God I came to Australia.
 
Originally posted by Jars458



So you are saying Thatcher was a person for the people?

Yeah right, as long as you are earning enough.

I can't take anyone seriously who thinks there is a level playing field.

Not all Unions are communitst or self interested such as teh BLF for instnace.

Would you say the Union fighting for the rights of Ansett workers is doing the wrong thing

If the ACTU control the Labor party - the Melbourne Club controls the Liberal Party


I too grew up in Thatcher's England.

All I can say is thank God I came to Australia.

No, I'm not saying she was a person for the people what I am saying is that she was good for the country at first. The country was on it's knees dominated by the unions and in a financial mess. She was like a dose of medecine, tasted bad but got the country back into shape. Two terms of medicine was enough and she should have been dumped by her party then, never mind the people.

I agree that there are some fair ununs but most are not and institutions they have forced on Australia like the AIRC are unjust and grossly unfair. I have had my dealings with them which basically go like this. " Pay up even though you are right otherwise it will cost you more in legal costs to get the win"

Ansett is a strange situation. Firstly I must say that I believe that employee entitlements should rank above all other creditors up to a fair value. That being all outstanding holiday leave, without loading, and up to 8 weeks severance pay.
The people who owed the money was Air NZ, a wholly overseas company. It is wrong that a trade union fights the government of the country for debts owed by an overseas company. In the end they are asking the tax payer to fork out without good reason.
It must also be recognised that despite bad management the main reason for Ansetts downfall was that they were uncompetitive with costs way above the norm. These costs are directly attributable to union negotiation/blackmail (choose which word suits you) of ludricously high wages and inflexible conditions. Air NZ to their credit did set up a meeting with the unions and told them of the position many months before the collapse. They asked for lower wages and more flexibility. The union chief delegate said only three words at that meeting then they walked out. They were "Firk off Kiwi"
Ansett workers were members of a trade union that negotiated the company down the drain. They took the greedy pickings and now are crying that the golden goose is dead. Now there is no Air NZ to give handouts they want to have them from the taxpayer. Well I say no. I wouln't want a cent of my tax to go to any of the greedy gits!

I have never head of the Melbourne Club.....hardly the State for a Liberal party stronghold though!
 
Blaming the unions for the collapse of Ansett ? You have got it bad. Heaven help you when you need a bit of collective action to support you. I suppose you cherish the Thatcher line that there is no such thing as society , only individuals. What a bleak vision. What defeated Hitler, individuals ?

People need hope, not division. Anyway, all the conservative pollies bagged NZ for Ansett - the unions were ( amazingly ) never mentioned.

You obviously worship at the alter of the 'market forces' - I want something a little more civilized than that.
 

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