Game Day NAB Cup Round Three - Vs St Kilda @ Casey Fields

[stretcharmstrong]

I'll agree that the tackle count was poor. Very poor. But what about the positives?

We had more disposals, more inside 50s, smashed them in the middle through the hit outs and clearances and apart from that one poor quarter we were extremely competitive. We may have lost and our tackle count left a lot to be desired but there are clear improvements there for us as a side.

Yes, didn't mean to be overly negative.

Along with the points you made, judging from the stats, we actually must have been using the ball very well during the first quarter.

 

[CowboyFromHell]

Yes, didn't mean to be overly negative.

Along with the points you made, judging from the stats, we actually must have been using the ball very well during the first quarter.

True. The stats tell an interesting story. Just glancing at them you would think that Magner had a good day with 19 touches but his DE was at 57.9%, while Watts only had 11 touches but went at 100%. That's just two examples, but we have some using it well and others who are getting enough of the pill but not being damaging enough.

I'm still not keen on Magner either. Bloke has a fair dinkum crack but he doesn't use it well at all. Reckon the return of Viney and McKenzie might keep him out of the side.

 

[d33my]

I didn't see the game so will be looking forward to some more detailed responses.

Letting other sides getting five or six goal run-ons kills us, but I would imagine this is mainly due to inexperience with structures, gameplan, etc. This is something that will hopefully stop the longer the group plays together.

So is that it for our NAB cup games now? Will we have another practice game before the season proper?

 

[CowboyFromHell]

I didn't see the game so will be looking forward to some more detailed responses.

Letting other sides getting five or six goal run-ons kills us, but I would imagine this is mainly due to inexperience with structures, gameplan, etc. This is something that will hopefully stop the longer the group plays together.

So is that it for our NAB cup games now? Will we have another practice game before the season proper?

I believe there is one more next week, but those games aren't announced until it's known who is playing in the NAB Cup Grand Final.

 

[d33my]

I believe there is one more next week, but those games aren't announced until it's known who is playing in the NAB Cup Grand Final.

Makes sense. Cheers.

 

[stretcharmstrong]

True. The stats tell an interesting story. Just glancing at them you would think that Magner had a good day with 19 touches but his DE was at 57.9%, while Watts only had 11 touches but went at 100%. That's just two examples, but we have some using it well and others who are getting enough of the pill but not being damaging enough.

I'm still not keen on Magner either. Bloke has a fair dinkum crack but he doesn't use it well at all. Reckon the return of Viney and McKenzie might keep him out of the side.

The thing is, we all know that McKenzie cannot kick either. I'm not sure under what conditions Magner was getting his kicks today, but it's probably fair to say he's usually getting them amongst a fair amount of traffic. He gets clearance, tackles and seems to make a lot of contests. All big ticks for me (Jordie does alright at those things too). I would really like to see Magner feeding it out a bit more. We should have guys like Sylvia, Blease, Rodan, Byrnes, Toumpas, Davey moving through the stoppages and other contests to recieve from guys like Magner. This would lead to the Magner types having handball:kick ratios closer to 2:1 and result in better efficiencies imo (based on the premise that they handball better than they kick).

For the life of me I can't work out why our "extraction system" (if you like) still basically comprises guys like Magner winning the ball in tight and slamming it on their boot. Why do we still not have a better setup, involving players with the ability to use the ball moving through the stoppage at pace, at rehearsed angles/positions relative to the ballwinners in order to recieve and push forward?

Rhetorical question I guess (or one for Brian Royal).

 

[d33my]

For the life of me I can't work out why our "extraction system" (if you like) still basically comprises guys like Magner winning the ball in tight and slamming it on their boot. Why do we still not have a better setup, involving players with the ability to use the ball moving through the stoppage at pace, at rehearsed angles/positions relative to the ballwinners in order to recieve and push forward?

Rhetorical question I guess (or one for Brian Royal).

Even though it's rhetorical (and I am not Brian Royal) I'll have a go at answering anyway.

I would suggest it all comes down to experience/skill again, especially when under real pressure. I haven't been to a training session this year but it would be interesting to know if we are better at setting up (like you suggested) against ourselves, but when it comes to game time a bit of panic takes over and the inside players just chuck it on the boot. Obviously part of the skill of great players like Ablett, Judd etc is composure.

 

[Praetorian]

How many goals did beau Wilkes/maister kick? If its less than 5, we've improved.

 

[stretcharmstrong]

Even though it's rhetorical (and I am not Brian Royal) I'll have a go at answering anyway.

I would suggest it all comes down to experience/skill again, especially when under real pressure. I haven't been to a training session this year but it would be interesting to know if we are better at setting up (like you suggested) against ourselves, but when it comes to game time a bit of panic takes over and the inside players just chuck it on the boot. Obviously part of the skill of great players like Ablett, Judd etc is composure.

Yes, composure is such an underrated characteristic. Incidentally, I reckon developing/improving his composure is a big part of NJ's improvement over the last two seasons.

Reasonably non-MFC-bashing write up on the HS website here. Not actually worth reading, but included this pleasing quote at the end

Melbourne controlled much of the play in the second half but the Saints were able to counter any attack.

For those that attended - would you agree with that, or is it just something that the author pulled from his or her arse?

 

[d33my]

Yes, composure is such an underrated characteristic. Incidentally, I reckon developing/improving his composure is a big part of NJ's improvement over the last two seasons.

Very good point re Jones. I would imagine composure comes once you've absolutely nailed your basic skills. Once they become second nature you can begin to reproduce them under pressue as competently as you can on the training track.

 

[CowboyFromHell]

Yes, composure is such an underrated characteristic. Incidentally, I reckon developing/improving his composure is a big part of NJ's improvement over the last two seasons.

Reasonably non-MFC-bashing write up on the HS website here. Not actually worth reading, but included this pleasing quote at the end

Still think we would have fallen down across half forward today. Sellar jagged a couple but our potentiall small forwards (Davey, Byrnes, Tapscott) had little impact on the game and we lacked a bit of class and polish.

Plenty to like about today and we have some very handy players to return. Outside of the second term there are still plenty of positives to come out of today.

 

[Higgs Boson]

I was there. Caught up with syl too. It was most definitely lost in the second quarter. We looked superb in the first, and St Kilda only scored a goal very late. Movement was good. We were kicking with a good breeze though; illustrated when Dunn roosted a torp when kicking in almost to the centre. I think from memory after a couple of hand passes it ended up in a goal - perhaps the best transition I've seen from the Dees for a year.

But the second quarter sucked balls. Saints got a run on and, surprise, surprise, we couldn't stop it. Yes, they had the wind, but to let them kick that many goals in a row was just disappointing. Should say, though, we should have had at least a couple before Sellar's late goal. Hogan missed a snap from up close, and someone else missed an easy one too.

Third quarter wasn't bad. But the lopsided free kick count stood out like dog's balls to an admittedly biased onlooker in yours truly. I can't say the frees weren't there for St Kilda, but it twists your guts when they keep going the other way.

Can't comment on the last quarter I'm afraid - I left at three quarter time. Not because I pulled a heart string, but because I took a four-year-old who was well tired and grumpy by that stage. And to be fair, it was hot - damn hot. I was happy to hear that, although the Saints had the breeze in the last, the game stayed at virtually the same margin as at three quarter time.

Watts wasn't too bad. Jamar was great in the ruck. Gillies looked okay, but Riewoldt played very strongly. Didn't see Sylvia too much. Rodan looked lively, as did Byrnes. Davey did a little bit, but fair to say his best days are well behind him. Otherwise, I don't think anyone really stood out. I couldn't really analyse too much more, as looking after a young one makes it hard to concentrate properly. Probably won't do that again, at least not in the heat.

I went to the game thinking that I didn't really care about the result. Left feeling disappointed nevertheless. But the conditions really were extreme, so I don't think either side would read too much into it.

One last though - Saints really killed us on the spread. It's something we'll need to work on. All in all, reasonably happy with the preseason.

 

[00Stinger]

Ok gents, I have just gotten back from the long trek out at Casey. **** me it is a long way out of the city.

Anyways onto the game itself.

The first quarter we moved the ball well and looked very slick. The highlight was definately Dunn's torpedo kick out that went to the centre of the centre of the ground, which resulted in us running it down for a goal. The second quarter, they really cut us open. I think they kicked 8 unanswered goals. After half time I thought we matched them well and it was a very even affair.

Ok onto individuals. The first player I will mention is a soft, hang out who IMO should not play round 1. Aaron Davey, he looks beyond terrible and he is now just a joke.

Dunn- Thought he looks very good down back and his long kicking is great. One of our best today.
Sellar- Took some very good contested marks and presented well. I like him forward, but there may not be a spot for him come round 1, however he is going to make it difficult for the coaching staff to leave him out with these performances.
Jones- Good super goal and his usual work horse self.
Sylvia- Thought he played well in patches, had some good link up play through the middle.
Pederson- Good contested work and really put in today. Also did a bit of ruck work today.
Jamar- Didn't do much around the ground, but he monstered the ruck duels, which gave our mids first use of the ball and saw that we weren't destroyed out of the middle for a change.
Rodan- Looked lively and can really burst out of packs. Had a quiet second half, but was a dominate player in the 1st half
Nicholson- Played up the ground today and got plenty of it. His kicking was very good today

 

[Higgs Boson]

Yeah, forgot Jones, I think he was probably our best - afl.com.au agrees. Sellar too, he's an imposing figure.

(Scroll down past the dross for the match report on the AFL site.)

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St Kilda too strong for determined Demons

By Ben Guthrie5:16pm AEDT Saturday, March 9, 2013

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ST KILDA has outmuscled a defiant Melbourne, winning by 25 points in hot and blustery conditions in their NAB Cup at Casey Fields on Saturday afternoon.

The Saints rattled off seven straight goals in the second quarter, plus a Nick Dal Santo supergoal, to take charge of the contest.

The Saints had to hold off a considerable second-half comeback by Melbourne before recording a 2.10.13 (91) to 2.7.6 (66) victory.

The Saints' second-quarter run coincided with the aid of a strong breeze, although they also made a concerted effort to lift their intensity through the middle of the ground.

Saints youngster Jack Newnes played his best game for the club and enhanced his case for a round one spot, while experienced duo Leigh Montagna (21 disposals) and Dal Santo (19) racked up plenty of possessions through the midfield.

Newnes (17) added a touch of class, finding plenty of space in his role on the win, not wasting the ball with clean disposal.

Stephen Milne - who booted three goals in the flurry of the second term - was also his usual busy self up forward.

Despite the inclusion of captain Nick Riewoldt and champion midfielder Lenny Hayes, it was the Saints who trailed in the early stages of the game.

The Demons' centre square work was one of the major reasons for their early dominance, in particular the influence of ruckman Mark Jamar (35 hit-outs) and midfielders David Rodan (13 disposals) and Daniel Nicholson (18).

But Melbourne's attacking mindset appeared to shrink in the second term, which allowed the Saints to dictate terms through the middle and up forward.

As the third quarter rolled around, the Demons fought back and kicked a couple of important goals to peg back the Saints' lead.

With Mitch Clark, Chris Dawes, Jack Trengove, Jack Viney and Jordie McKenzie watching on from the Casey terraces, the Demons charged back to within 20 points at three-quarter time.

The Demons peppered the goals early in the last term, but the Saints steadied with a late Dal Santo major sealing the result.

Due to the extreme heat, the sides were compensated by having six players on the interchange bench as part of the AFL's heat policy.

There were also extended quarter breaks, with both teams leaving the field of play at quarter and three-quarter time to escape the heat.

MELBOURNE 1.2.2 1.3.4 2.5.6 2.7.6 (66)
ST KILDA 0.1.2 2.6.8 2.8.8 2.10.13 (91)

SUPERGOALS
Melbourne: Dunn, N. Jones
St Kilda: Newnes, Dal Santo

GOALS
Melbourne: Sellar 2, Byrnes, Tapscott, Rodan, Davey, Hogan, Toumpas
St Kilda: Milne 3, Milera 2, Hayes, Dennis-Lane, Riewoldt,Gilbert, Dal Santo

BEST
Melbourne: N. Jones, Rodan, Dunn, Terlich Jamar, Sylvia, Nicholson
St Kilda: Dal Santo, Newnes, Montagna, Milne, Steven, Geary, Roberton

INJURIES
Melbourne: TBC
St Kilda: TBC

Reports: Nil

Umpires: TBC

Official crowd: 5,000 (est.) at Casey Fields

 

[CowboyFromHell]

Thanks Higgs Boson and sivart for the round ups! Much appreciated and gives a little more perspective on the game for those who are relying purely on small updates and stats.

I'll ask you both - how was our disposal today? Any improvements? And did we fall down a little across half forward?

And also sivart, as Higgs mentioned in his post, how did you feel walking away from the game today?

 

[Higgs Boson]

Thanks Higgs Boson and sivart for the round ups! Much appreciated and gives a little more perspective on the game for those who are relying purely on small updates and stats.

I'll ask you both - how was our disposal today? Any improvements? And did we fall down a little across half forward?

And also sivart, as Higgs mentioned in his post, how did you feel walking away from the game today?

Disposal in the first quarter was awesome. I was big Kev'n it. Afterwards, not so much. There was a fair cross breeze though, tbh, which made it hard. A lot of OOBs on the full on the east side of the ground.

We also dropped quite a few marks we should have taken.

Again, really extreme conditions, so hard to be decisive.

 

[Higgs Boson]

Ooh! I forgot! Howe took a hanger. Okay, a small hanger, but it indicates he hasn't forgotten how(e) to do it, and hopefully we'll see a few more good ones this year

 

[CowboyFromHell]

Disposal in the first quarter was awesome. I was big Kev'n it. Afterwards, not so much. There was a fair cross breeze though, tbh, which made it hard. A lot of OOBs on the full on the east side of the ground.

We also dropped quite a few marks we should have taken.

Again, really extreme conditions, so hard to be decisive.

Cheers mate. I figured the extreme heat and the breeze would skew things a little in terms of how we played, but I think we can take the first term as a sign of where we could head and the next 3 as a team who still needs to improve a little in certain areas.

 

[00Stinger]

Thanks Higgs Boson and sivart for the round ups! Much appreciated and gives a little more perspective on the game for those who are relying purely on small updates and stats.

I'll ask you both - how was our disposal today? Any improvements? And did we fall down a little across half forward?

And also sivart, as Higgs mentioned in his post, how did you feel walking away from the game today?

The first quarter we looked very good, both in disposal and decision making. The second quarter we couldn't cope with the strong wind, which it must be said St Kilda also struggled kicking into it early.

I don't think we struggled across HF too much. Like I said earlier I thought Pederson played well roaming around there, but he probably didn't get much help from the little guys. Brynes was ok across there, but Tapscott couldn't get near it.

How did I feel leaving the game? Look I think we are still well off the pace of the top teams and the major problem of not being able to stop a team from getting a run on against us is still there. I think we struggle through the midfield and really need some help for Jones, however if Jamar dominates the ruck it gives us a 50/50 chance. There were some positive signs though with our skills being up on last year and our decision making looked much better. The backline worked well and I must say I really like Dunn back there.

 

[syl]

**** that second quarter.

Wow the umpires smashed us all day, half of our **** all free kicks were out on the full too, I hope those clowns don't get a guernsey during the year.

T

 

[CowboyFromHell]

The first quarter we looked very good, both in disposal and decision making. The second quarter we couldn't cope with the strong wind, which it must be said St Kilda also struggled kicking into it early.

I don't think we struggled across HF too much. Like I said earlier I thought Pederson played well roaming around there, but he probably didn't get much help from the little guys. Brynes was ok across there, but Tapscott couldn't get near it.

How did I feel leaving the game? Look I think we are still well off the pace of the top teams and the major problem of not being able to stop a team from getting a run on against us is still there. I think we struggle through the midfield and really need some help for Jones, however if Jamar dominates the ruck it gives us a 50/50 chance. There were some positive signs though with our skills being up on last year and our decision making looked much better. The backline worked well and I must say I really like Dunn back there.

Thanks mate. Agree 100% that we are still off the pace of the better sides and that we still need to gain more maturity when it comes to shutting down a side before they get a run on, but it's nice to hear that there is some clear improvement about how the side goes about it. Our midfield does need support but if we can work our butts off and do the right things then I think we can certainly win a few more games than we did last year.

 

[d33my]

Who was Jamar rucking against today? Anybody of note?

 

[CowboyFromHell]

Who was Jamar rucking against today? Anybody of note?

Blake and Kosi so.... no. But he dominated like he should. I'd be worried if he only had a so so day in there.

 

[Higgs Boson]

**** that second quarter.

Wow the umpires smashed us all day, half of our **** all free kicks were out on the full too, I hope those clowns don't get a guernsey during the year.

T

Back into the home brew again tonight mate? I hope so!

 

[syl]

Who was Jamar rucking against today? Anybody of note?

The wind.