Oceania New Zealand election, Jacinda's legacy given the boot in crushing defeat

Remove this Banner Ad

Blue Arrow

Club Legend
Feb 22, 2019
1,415
1,474
AFL Club
St Kilda
Other Teams
The Renegades, Vics
Yet another stunning defeat for the left over in NZ this weekend.

Unlike the people of Victoria they had the common sense to remove a government that bungled the covid crises & the economy.

The left's media darling Adern had the brains to retire in shame before the election, we wouldn't want a losing election on her resume when she runs for a UN post in the coming future. Running your country into the ground is okay for the UN though.

 

Log in to remove this ad.

schneebly111

Club Legend
Mar 23, 2023
1,269
2,671
AFL Club
Richmond
Yet another stunning defeat for the left over in NZ this weekend.

Yet another example of someone taking one election result out of context and prescribing it as some type of trend.

Yesterday in Poland the Polish just voted OUT a right wing government and replaced it with a centre left/centrist coalition.

I wouldn’t say this is indicative of any worldwide trend. You can pick about half of election results and conclude ‘your’ side is gaining if you wish.
 
Jul 27, 2004
54,584
46,374
Las Vegas
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Norwood
Yet another example of someone taking one election result out of context and prescribing it as some type of trend.

Yesterday in Poland the Polish just voted OUT a right wing government and replaced it with a centre left/centrist coalition.

I wouldn’t say this is indicative of any worldwide trend. You can pick about half of election results and conclude ‘your’ side is gaining if you wish.
I've noticed the trend of our RWNJs looking for any type support for their own shitty views far and wide.
 
Apr 23, 2016
30,234
42,174
AFL Club
Essendon

Johnny Bananas

Premiership Player Hater
Sep 10, 2010
12,554
16,874
Next door
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Yet another example of someone taking one election result out of context and prescribing it as some type of trend.

Yesterday in Poland the Polish just voted OUT a right wing government and replaced it with a centre left/centrist coalition.

I wouldn’t say this is indicative of any worldwide trend. You can pick about half of election results and conclude ‘your’ side is gaining if you wish.
I can identify one trend, incumbent governments, regardless of ideology, are getting tossed out in a lot of places due to dissatisfaction over the rising cost of living. I think in general this is a bit harsh since the inflation isn't localised, it's happening globally.
 

Ballarat Bob

Team Captain
Feb 5, 2020
384
765
AFL Club
Sydney
Think once Jacinta quit it was always going to be difficult to win again. Despite her popularity overseas a lot of domestic policies weren't realised and combined with high inflation as Johnny says it came down to the economy and cost of living which have pushed the electorate to the Nats. The Labour campaign was very weak and disorganised which didn't help.
Having said that the Nats are hardly a hard right party and there normally is a coalition that needs to be formed.
The lack of Mr Murdoch's media empire in NZ also helps the political discussion a lot.
 
May 13, 2008
36,052
57,348
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Yet another example of someone taking one election result out of context and prescribing it as some type of trend.

Yesterday in Poland the Polish just voted OUT a right wing government and replaced it with a centre left/centrist coalition.

I wouldn’t say this is indicative of any worldwide trend. You can pick about half of election results and conclude ‘your’ side is gaining if you wish.
Let him gloat. Trump is about to go to jail and the Tories are about to be annihilated. It will be a short celebration.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Dec 7, 2019
19,359
49,450
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Other Teams
Manchester United, All Blacks
13% swing to them and picking up 15 seats makes it far from their worse although they should still be disappointed at the result given how poor Ardern ended up being at anything other than publicity

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app
As someone who voted for her Ardern has been a let down in the end. She was excellent at crisis management, but wasted her opportunity to make real changes in policy after gaining a huge win in 2020 (which was essentially a referendum on how the government handled covid). Lends weight to the criticisms about being style-over-substance. She probably lacked a good off-sider to handle the policy stuff, but she didn't have enough competent ministers imo.

Think once Jacinta quit it was always going to be difficult to win again. Despite her popularity overseas a lot of domestic policies weren't realised and combined with high inflation as Johnny says it came down to the economy and cost of living which have pushed the electorate to the Nats. The Labour campaign was very weak and disorganised which didn't help.
Having said that the Nats are hardly a hard right party and there normally is a coalition that needs to be formed.
The lack of Mr Murdoch's media empire in NZ also helps the political discussion a lot.
These are good points. It's worth noting how much NZ politics runs in cycles, since the mid 70's National and Labour have swapped being in government, each governing for either 2 or 3 terms. We are often out of sync with other western democracies too (we now have a right leaning government when others are moving left). Labour were very much running out of steam this year. National will get 2 or 3 terms now, which is a bit concerning as the PM elect Luxon is hugely underwhelming. Given the coalition he will need to form it's hard to see much of anything being done for a while.

I would say the media environment here is definitely trying to be more extreme. Ardern was essentially hounded out of office (not that she would have won this election anyway imo). My own experience is people are very un-engaged with politics currently, it was surprising how many people had not decided who to vote for very close to the election.
 

Johnny Bananas

Premiership Player Hater
Sep 10, 2010
12,554
16,874
Next door
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
As someone who voted for her Ardern has been a let down in the end. She was excellent at crisis management, but wasted her opportunity to make real changes in policy after gaining a huge win in 2020 (which was essentially a referendum on how the government handled covid). Lends weight to the criticisms about being style-over-substance. She probably lacked a good off-sider to handle the policy stuff, but she didn't have enough competent ministers imo.


These are good points. It's worth noting how much NZ politics runs in cycles, since the mid 70's National and Labour have swapped being in government, each governing for either 2 or 3 terms. We are often out of sync with other western democracies too (we now have a right leaning government when others are moving left). Labour were very much running out of steam this year. National will get 2 or 3 terms now, which is a bit concerning as the PM elect Luxon is hugely underwhelming. Given the coalition he will need to form it's hard to see much of anything being done for a while.

I would say the media environment here is definitely trying to be more extreme. Ardern was essentially hounded out of office (not that she would have won this election anyway imo). My own experience is people are very un-engaged with politics currently, it was surprising how many people had not decided who to vote for very close to the election.
What changes would you have wanted to see happen, and what would make a difference to people's lives to get them to engage again?
 
Last edited:
Dec 7, 2019
19,359
49,450
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Other Teams
Manchester United, All Blacks
What changes would you have wanted to see happen, and what would make a difference to people's lives to get them to engage again?
I don't have any specific policy changes in mind. More a general point. NZ has been bumping along with the standard neo-conversative policies that have been the trend for most western democracies since the 80's. Like most countries the middle class is getting squeezed for corporate profits, and I think at some stage a breaking point will be reached. I don't know what happens then, but Ardern was the first PM in a long time with the ability to do as she wanted, and she didn't take the opportunity.

Re: Political engagement - fatigue from covid lockdowns must be a factor in this. NZ was effected much less than most countries, but folk are probably still sick of government in general. Politics worldwide in general seems so aggressive and confrontational these days, and this is seeping into politics in NZ, my take is that is turning a lot of NZ'ers off and making them lose interest.
 
Dec 7, 2019
19,359
49,450
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Other Teams
Manchester United, All Blacks
General point for the thread, but her name is Jacinda Ardern, not Jacinta

The right-wing knuckle draggers like to call her "Cindy" to demean her, so maybe go with that if that is the goal? :thumbsu::rainbow:
 

Johnny Bananas

Premiership Player Hater
Sep 10, 2010
12,554
16,874
Next door
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
I don't have any specific policy changes in mind. More a general point. NZ has been bumping along with the standard neo-conversative policies that have been the trend for most western democracies since the 80's. Like most countries the middle class is getting squeezed for corporate profits, and I think at some stage a breaking point will be reached. I don't know what happens then, but Ardern was the first PM in a long time with the ability to do as she wanted, and she didn't take the opportunity.
Fair enough. I think it's yet another example of how we can't trust centre-left parties to act in the interests of people, because they've been captured by corporate interests through donations, fear of a media backlash and the desire of politicians to secure a comfortable corporate job after their political career ends.

Perhaps the only way to keep those parties accountable is the fear of losing votes to parties further left. I'm sure that explains some of the reason why the Greens in both Aotearoa and Australia have been making gains.

Re: Political engagement - fatigue from covid lockdowns must be a factor in this. NZ was effected much less than most countries, but folk are probably still sick of government in general. Politics worldwide in general seems so aggressive and confrontational these days, and this is seeping into politics in NZ, my take is that is turning a lot of NZ'ers off and making them lose interest.
That's a little odd since governments are what kept people from dying, but I suppose people are entitled to their own reactions.
 
Dec 7, 2019
19,359
49,450
AFL Club
Gold Coast
Other Teams
Manchester United, All Blacks
Fair enough. I think it's yet another example of how we can't trust centre-left parties to act in the interests of people, because they've been captured by corporate interests through donations, fear of a media backlash and the desire of politicians to secure a comfortable corporate job after their political career ends.

Perhaps the only way to keep those parties accountable is the fear of losing votes to parties further left. I'm sure that explains some of the reason why the Greens in both Aotearoa and Australia have been making gains.
Agreed. I don't think Labour expected to win by such a large margin, so weren't ready to capitalise. There was an analysis done on Labour and National a few years back, and they had 90% the same policies. Left wing parties/politicians are captured by the system just like the right wing ones.

The Greens in New Zealand are in an interesting spot, being quite established now as a minor party. Most people under 60 are broadly accepting of their environmental position, it's just the rest of their policies that cause the problems. It's hard to see them being taken seriously enough to become a major party currently.
 

Rob R

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 17, 2009
5,306
5,906
AFL Club
Hawthorn
  • New Zealand Prime Minister axes smoking ban
  • Mr Luxon claims blanket ban will fuel black market

Shocking how much influence the smoking lobby has. even here there are adds on the radio from the taxpayers association (a front organisation) about how evil increasd taxes on tobacco and vaping are.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Jul 5, 2011
15,172
22,786
AFL Club
Collingwood
Why would it fuel a black market when people who can legally smoke now will always be allowed to smoke?
Maybe, and I'm just spitballing here, but maybe a blackmarket would develop to cater to emerging generations who are not legally able to buy them? I think history has clearly demonstrated again and again that banning a substance only shifts the flow of cash away from legitimate tax-paying businesses and towards criminal groups.

I'm no fan of cigarettes or other nicotine products and the health/financial burden they place on the addicted. But society is moving away from prohibition as a solution, eg with many places legalising cannabis. Banning tobacco seemed a lil regressive.
 

Geelong_Sicko

Brownlow Medallist
Jun 11, 2007
20,989
20,055
Melbourne
AFL Club
Geelong
Banning tobacco seemed a lil regressive.
I agree... but there's a problem with secondary/passive inhalation.


If there was only risk to the smoker I wonder if there would be such a big deal? I mean, excessive alcohol intake/abuse also causes harm to the drinker but that's cool as long as the intoxicated person isn't harming others.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Back