No non-Vic team has defeated a Vic team in the Grand Final without list or salary cap concessions

[kane249]

By half wits I'm assuming you're including your own coach as per his quote from 2014?

Simpson said. “It was pretty much a state side when they started, and the ‘us versus them’ mentality was definitely part of the motivation.”

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/adam-simpsons-new-state-of-mind-20140410-zqt7i.html

Well he is a Victorian originally, so yeah not surprised he got the history wrong.

I doubt Lyon would be versed on some of your early history either.

 

[bh90210fan]

Did you not just finish a new billion dollar stadium? If the dimensions are not the same as the G then you only have yourselves to blame, same as Geelong put billions into redevelopment but kept the same ground size then complain about playing at the G.

I'm pretty sure Adelaide oval was redeveloped recently as well, the interstate teams want to keep their unique home ground advantage but also complain about playing anywhere else and pretend it's unfair.

It was a Richmond poster complaining about our unfair advantage. I responded to him

 

[Tony Harrison]

Have a look at next years fixture for West Coast and Richmond

WC play 10 away games and 12 home games including 2 games against Freo (neutral)

That’s 10 games with home ground advantage and 10 games away with a disadvantage

Richmond play 14 games at the mcg with 4 games against fellow tenants

That’s 10 games with home ground advantage, 5 nuetral games if you include playing Sydney at Etihad and only 7 games with an away disadvantage

Then finals come around and weeks 1 through 3 you could come 8th and play the Saints, Dogs and north at home who only play 2 times each a year at the mcg and then play a interstate side in the gf

How on earth does any team have more advantage than your team

And don’t tell me playing away games at home against Geelong, Carlton and Essendon are neutral because they all stand a much greater chance of beating you at their home grounds as proven by your away record this season

I counted 8 home advantage, 7 Neutral, and 7 away for the tigers.
Essendon vs Richmond at the G is a neutral game. They play plenty of home games at the G every year and draw the same size crowd as us.

 

[parmy2balmey]

Even the unstoppable power stance was rendered impotent against the magic and might of the MCG home ground advantage, how can the OP be denied?

 

[dean33]

That is damning.

West Coast and Adelaide both had solid legs up in the 90s. Brisbane were hocked up when they dominated.

Sydney had COLA in 2012 which aided in player retention.

No one has done it. No one.

The interstate sides are still relatively young in the expanded VFL competition.
But there's already mountains of evidence that home ground determines everything.

Geelong almost never loses at KP, and sides look completely different when they play there. If you go to the ground and watch a game from high up, you see just how dramatically different the dimensions are from other grounds. It's not an oval.

You're watching a different brand of footy every week depending on which ground you're at, because teams have to figure out how to work within different dimensions while their opposition already has that down. The turnaround in margin from home to away is regularly 10 or 15 goals.

Barely anyone wins in Geelong. Barely anyone wins in Adelaide. And not a single interstate team has won on the MCG on grand final day without list or salary cap concessions.

We're five years in a row now of non-vic teams "mysteriously" putting in absolute stinkers on grand final day. It is not a coincidence.

For the game to become truly national and actually fair, the grand final MUST move. We don't need a 100,000 stadium. Bigger events all over the world regularly seat 50 or 60k. It's absolute nonsense that our other stadiums couldn't put on a phenomenal grand final.

It was so ******* disappointing spending all that money to go to a grand final, to see my team struggle with wider wings while the other team has learned by playing on it way more at the elite level. My team can never bridge that disadvantage.

I think this is going to be the single biggest conversation in the game the next several years, because it is becoming more structurally obvious with every season. Having a game where every ground is a completely different size and shape, and then having the grand final ALWAYS at one ground that half the competition plays at way more than the rest is absolutely insane.

Discuss.

Unfortunately interstate sides such as Adelaide, Sydney and West Coast want to enlarge the already sizeable home ground advantage they occupy through the home and away season by playing on odd shape grounds. Instead of having the foresight to replicate the dimensions of the mighty mcg so they are prepared come grand final day they only think short term and getting the advantage during the season. When they do make the grand final due to the obscene home ground advantage they enjoy during the year and in finals they come unstuck on the big stage. When will they ever learn?

 

[bh90210fan]

I counted 8 home advantage, 8 Neutral, and 7 away for the tigers.
Essendon vs Richmond at the G is a neutral game. They play plenty of home games at the G every year and draw the same size crowd as us.

The question is though do they stand a greater chance of winning against you on their home ground?

Yes they do. Look at your record there last year. You play twice as much at the mcg and have an advantage in playing there

What about playing Sydney at Etihad? I counted that as nuetral but you could easily say you have an advantage in that game too

 

[bh90210fan]

You can call it "premiers' privilege".

Don’t worry it’s not just premiers that get it

 

[Catters 070911]

That is damning.

West Coast and Adelaide both had solid legs up in the 90s. Brisbane were hocked up when they dominated.

Sydney had COLA in 2012 which aided in player retention.

No one has done it. No one.

The interstate sides are still relatively young in the expanded VFL competition.
But there's already mountains of evidence that home ground determines everything.

Geelong almost never loses at KP, and sides look completely different when they play there. If you go to the ground and watch a game from high up, you see just how dramatically different the dimensions are from other grounds. It's not an oval.

You're watching a different brand of footy every week depending on which ground you're at, because teams have to figure out how to work within different dimensions while their opposition already has that down. The turnaround in margin from home to away is regularly 10 or 15 goals.

Barely anyone wins in Geelong. Barely anyone wins in Adelaide. And not a single interstate team has won on the MCG on grand final day without list or salary cap concessions.

We're five years in a row now of non-vic teams "mysteriously" putting in absolute stinkers on grand final day. It is not a coincidence.

For the game to become truly national and actually fair, the grand final MUST move. We don't need a 100,000 stadium. Bigger events all over the world regularly seat 50 or 60k. It's absolute nonsense that our other stadiums couldn't put on a phenomenal grand final.

It was so ******* disappointing spending all that money to go to a grand final, to see my team struggle with wider wings while the other team has learned by playing on it way more at the elite level. My team can never bridge that disadvantage.

I think this is going to be the single biggest conversation in the game the next several years, because it is becoming more structurally obvious with every season. Having a game where every ground is a completely different size and shape, and then having the grand final ALWAYS at one ground that half the competition plays at way more than the rest is absolutely insane.

Discuss.

Funny how you mention Geelong, when they are not a "non-Victorian" side.

 

[Tony Harrison]

The question is though do they stand a greater chance of winning against you on their home ground?

Yes they do. Look at your record there last year. You play twice as much at the mcg and have an advantage in playing there

What about playing Sydney at Etihad? I counted that as nuetral but you could easily say you have an advantage in that game too

Or you could say that Etihad has more similar width to the Sydney grounds.

Ask any dons fan if they feel there is a disadvantage to playing us at the G.

 

[ok.crows]

Interstate sides abilities are artificially inflated due to home ground advantages through the H&A and home finals.

Actually it is the other way around. Interstate sides abilities are artificially deflated when they play away due to home ground advantages of the opposition. This is best illustrated by plotting the "difficulty" of games for an interstate side compared with a Victorian side:

 

[Catters 070911]

Lets remove their flags then as they are tainted. Lets also remove Essendon 93 and 2000 flags as they were over the cap

Also, remove Carlton's one in 1995, because they were over the salary cap as well.

 

[ok.crows]

West Coast and Adelaide both had solid legs up in the 90s.

Citation needed.

 

[Tits_McGee]

Also, remove Carlton's one in 1995, because they were over the salary cap as well.

Why doesnt the league remove flags from clubs that were over the cap ? it aint a flag if you cheated to win it

the storm had em all stripped didnt they ?

 

[Catters 070911]

LMAO. Obviously someone that looks at raw stats and not at what actually happened.

On that day there were several things that led to a Geelong win.

1. Every single one of the Geelong ins had almost career best games that day.

2. We played our worst football all year apart from the last three quarters against Adelaide in Adelaide and the first three against Freo at the MCG.

3. We lost Caddy late in the first quarter which completely unbalanced the side. At the time we were in front.

Despite all of these things we only lost by 14 points at a ground we rarely play at and even more rarely win at.


It's no wonder we flogged them a few weeks later.

The fourth reason is because, in the end, you are Richmond.

Enjoy your flag now, because, being Richmond, you won't win one again for decades. You will go the way of the Bulldogs and fluke a flag.

The umpires helped you out QF night as well, and you had a game plan that caught all other teams out. Now, every other team will recruit and plan to counter your small forward line, and the small forward line will go the way of the dodo by the end of the year, or everyone else will do it too, and you won't have that advantage anymore.

Let's see you try to win two or three flags in the next few years.

 

[Catters 070911]

Did you not just finish a new billion dollar stadium? If the dimensions are not the same as the G then you only have yourselves to blame, same as Geelong put billions into redevelopment but kept the same ground size then complain about playing at the G.

I'm pretty sure Adelaide oval was redeveloped recently as well, the interstate teams want to keep their unique home ground advantage but also complain about playing anywhere else and pretend it's unfair.

No. Geelong complained because we finished HIGHER than Richmond, so should have got the home ground advantage. But because Richmond has some entitlement mentality, they think that they should never have to play at Symons Stadium. But, in 2016, when Richmond played Geelong at the 'G, hardly any Richmond supporters showed up (they must have still been building the bandwagon). Then, when Richmond start winning and they all come out of the woodwork, they bitch and moan, and get KB to complain on the radio (I didn't see Kevin going to the 'G to see Richmond those 15 years he wanted nothing to do with the club because they sacked him for sucking as a coach), they carry on about having to play Geelong in an away game at Geelong's home ground.

I can't wait until Richmond return to form, and start losing all the time again. I used to feel sorry for Richmond, and used to like the club but can't wait until they start disappointing you again and wipe the arrogant smiles off stupid Richmond bandwagon jumpers faces. If ever a team deserved less to brag, based on their history, it is Richmond.

PS One finals loss to Richmond doesn't erase away all the joy I got of years of Gary Ablett snr kicking 10+ goals against the Tigers every time on the 'G. Your home ground advantage didn't do much then.

 

[Catters 070911]

Unfortunately interstate sides such as Adelaide, Sydney and West Coast want to enlarge the already sizeable home ground advantage they occupy through the home and away season by playing on odd shape grounds. Instead of having the foresight to replicate the dimensions of the mighty mcg so they are prepared come grand final day they only think short term and getting the advantage during the season. When they do make the grand final due to the obscene home ground advantage they enjoy during the year and in finals they come unstuck on the big stage. When will they ever learn?

No good preparing for the Grand Final if you don't win enough games during the season to get to the finals, or earn a home final.

But then a Richmond supporter wouldn't know that, considering that they were "gifted" home finals this year (Geelong finished HIGHER than you, yet you got the home final because you bitched and moaned and chucked your toys until you got your way). Richmond - The Entitlement Club.

PS If the 'G is so perfect, then how come, even though you have played home games there for years, you only win a flag this year, and not the previous 35 years?

 

[parmy2balmey]

this bloke is going off

 

[Kwality]

That is damning.

West Coast and Adelaide both had solid legs up in the 90s. Brisbane were hocked up when they dominated.

Sydney had COLA in 2012 which aided in player retention.

No one has done it. No one.

The interstate sides are still relatively young in the expanded VFL competition.
But there's already mountains of evidence that home ground determines everything.

Geelong almost never loses at KP, and sides look completely different when they play there. If you go to the ground and watch a game from high up, you see just how dramatically different the dimensions are from other grounds. It's not an oval.

You're watching a different brand of footy every week depending on which ground you're at, because teams have to figure out how to work within different dimensions while their opposition already has that down. The turnaround in margin from home to away is regularly 10 or 15 goals.

Barely anyone wins in Geelong. Barely anyone wins in Adelaide. And not a single interstate team has won on the MCG on grand final day without list or salary cap concessions.

We're five years in a row now of non-vic teams "mysteriously" putting in absolute stinkers on grand final day. It is not a coincidence.

For the game to become truly national and actually fair, the grand final MUST move. We don't need a 100,000 stadium. Bigger events all over the world regularly seat 50 or 60k. It's absolute nonsense that our other stadiums couldn't put on a phenomenal grand final.

It was so ******* disappointing spending all that money to go to a grand final, to see my team struggle with wider wings while the other team has learned by playing on it way more at the elite level. My team can never bridge that disadvantage.

I think this is going to be the single biggest conversation in the game the next several years, because it is becoming more structurally obvious with every season. Having a game where every ground is a completely different size and shape, and then having the grand final ALWAYS at one ground that half the competition plays at way more than the rest is absolutely insane.

Discuss.

West Coast had 35 on their list in 1987 whilst ALL other clubs had 50+ - some love to claim the Eagles getting the same number of players as ALL others was a leg up. Is that process the leg up the Eagles side of the early 90s (GFs in 91, 92 & 94)?

 

[Kwality]

only recently built most of them.
Geelong, Adelaide, WA teams, etc. - no sympathy for building stadiums that don't match the ground the GF is played on.
We get none when we play there, so......

Essendon were the first to have a dedicated training oval the same size as the G - the AFL kicked in to make it happen.

 

[Kwality]

Did you not just finish a new billion dollar stadium? If the dimensions are not the same as the G then you only have yourselves to blame, same as Geelong put billions into redevelopment but kept the same ground size then complain about playing at the G.

I'm pretty sure Adelaide oval was redeveloped recently as well, the interstate teams want to keep their unique home ground advantage but also complain about playing anywhere else and pretend it's unfair.

IF footy built the stadium your claim might be relevant, hell the AFL did not even put $1 into it. Your claim is nonsense!!

 

[Ron The Bear]

Richmond - The Entitlement Club.

Hahaha. Get back to me when the AFL decides your hicktown outpost is no longer relevant and allows it to die.

Pathetic dribblers making convoluted attempts to rationalise the new world order. Enjoy the summer.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

As opposed to, say, 2005-06 when we had 9 MCG games and West Coast beat us there both years.

Over the past five years, Richmond has a 26-21 record away from the MCG. We're just a very good football team.

To be fair, in '05 and '06, West Coast were playing in GFs. Richmond finished 12th and, dare I say it, 9th, so there's a fair chance they were just better no matter where the games were played.

 

[Tony Harrison]

this bloke is going off

I thought he was going to get stuck on a hat trick.
But then he came out for a new over 8 minutes later and bam, clean bowled him around the legs.

 

[Catters 070911]

Hahaha. Get back to me when the AFL decides your hicktown outpost is no longer relevant and allows it to die.

Pathetic dribblers making convoluted attempts to rationalise the new world order. Enjoy the summer.

You enjoy the summer, because I feel that it is the only happy one you will have, as a Richmond supporter, for the next three decades.

(PS You look like a typical Richmond supporter. Take that as you will).

Also, I hope Santa gives you new toys at Christmas, so that you can throw them out of the cot when you realise that the AFL doesn't revolve around Richmond Football Club.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

The fourth reason is because, in the end, you are Richmond.

Enjoy your flag now, because, being Richmond, you won't win one again for decades. You will go the way of the Bulldogs and fluke a flag.

The umpires helped you out QF night as well, and you had a game plan that caught all other teams out. Now, every other team will recruit and plan to counter your small forward line, and the small forward line will go the way of the dodo by the end of the year, or everyone else will do it too, and you won't have that advantage anymore.

Let's see you try to win two or three flags in the next few years.

Now let me see. Premiership gap 1963 to 2007 = 43 years of being shyte
Our premiership gap 1980 to 2017 = 37 years of being shyte

I think you have us covered quite easily as you were, in the end, "Geelong" for just so much longer than we were "Richmond"......