Society/Culture Nobody has anything new to say about God.

Total Power

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A brilliant article, about science and it's interpretation and limitations and all ultimately brings us back to the question of consciousness. For me consciousness the most important missing piece of the puzzle.


 
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JW Frogen

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Interesting, I once watched a debate about consciousness, a neuroscience stated "we have no clue what it really is yet or how it arises."

The Buddhist view is that mind pre-exists it, and that consciousness then creates ego or self and thus clouds mind in the delusions of consciousness.

Now when I am flying on a plane I might want to sit next to a Buddhist monk and discuss that, but I want a rationalist to actually fly the plane.

And if the plane goes down, I will either take the Buddhist monk far more seriously or hit the drinks cart.
 

kozi

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My opinion of consciousness concluded from my own experience/understanding over the years is it’s simply the true “self” of anything which is concious. From my own perspective it’s undeniable. As discussed in this thread, what conciousness is not even science can answer at present. It appears to be something so profound that it can only be grasped at a conceptual level with any further endeavour falling well short.

I’d argue it’s a pretty big deal not being able to understand the most fundamental thing to our existence. Main issue stemming from this is as humans we seem very poor at dealing with not having the answer on a personal level, even if one has never consciously thought about what it is that actually animates them.

I believe the ego is simply our default mechanism. We create it and identify with it both consciously and subconsciously almost as a substitute. The “I” humans associate with is nothing more than a construct of the mind that most aren’t even aware they created themselves. The true “I” is the one that constructed the ego in the first place and observes it at all times. Conciousness.

The ego has a place in life, but not to anywhere near the level of dominance we give it. In our natural state it’s meant to be used at our discretion and submissive to our will, not running the show. I’m by no means a religious person, but I can definitely see why non Western religions such as Buddhism advocate moving away from the ego dominant mind. Especially when you start seeing it for what it really is, which is mostly just a bunch of limiting beliefs you didn’t consciously choose, the task becomes pertinent.
 

Total Power

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My opinion of consciousness concluded from my own experience/understanding over the years is it’s simply the true “self” of anything which is concious. From my own perspective it’s undeniable. As discussed in this thread, what conciousness is not even science can answer at present. It appears to be something so profound that it can only be grasped at a conceptual level with any further endeavour falling well short.

I’d argue it’s a pretty big deal not being able to understand the most fundamental thing to our existence. Main issue stemming from this is as humans we seem very poor at dealing with not having the answer on a personal level, even if one has never consciously thought about what it is that actually animates them.

I believe the ego is simply our default mechanism. We create it and identify with it both consciously and subconsciously almost as a substitute. The “I” humans associate with is nothing more than a construct of the mind that most aren’t even aware they created themselves. The true “I” is the one that constructed the ego in the first place and observes it at all times. Conciousness.

The ego has a place in life, but not to anywhere near the level of dominance we give it. In our natural state it’s meant to be used at our discretion and submissive to our will, not running the show. I’m by no means a religious person, but I can definitely see why non Western religions such as Buddhism advocate moving away from the ego dominant mind. Especially when you start seeing it for what it really is, which is mostly just a bunch of limiting beliefs you didn’t consciously choose, the task becomes pertinent.
Brilliant post! :thumbsu: :thumbsu: :thumbsu: :thumbsu:
 

Total Power

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The ego has a place in life, but not to anywhere near the level of dominance we give it. In our natural state it’s meant to be used at our discretion and submissive to our will, not running the show. I’m by no means a religious person, but I can definitely see why non Western religions such as Buddhism advocate moving away from the ego dominant mind. Especially when you start seeing it for what it really is, which is mostly just a bunch of limiting beliefs you didn’t consciously choose, the task becomes pertinent.
If you are interested in Eastern philosophy, i strongly suggest you read more of Stanfard physicist Andrei Linde, who co-founded the Inflation theory in Big Bang.

Here is a small sample.



Prof Linde wrote in ‘Life, Universe, Consciousness’: “Will it not turn out, with the further development of science, that the study of the Universe and the study of consciousness will be inseparably linked, and that ultimate progress in the one will be impossible without progress in the other?

“The Universe and the observer exist as a pair. I cannot imagine a consistent theory of the Universe that ignores consciousness.”


The full article is here, about Linde discussing consciousness in regards to Buddhism.

 
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kozi

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If you are interested in Eastern philosophy, i strongly suggest you read more of Stanfard of physicist Andrei Linde, who co-founded the Inflation theory in Big Bang.

Here is a small sample.



Prof Linde wrote in ‘Life, Universe, Consciousness’: “Will it not turn out, with the further development of science, that the study of the Universe and the study of consciousness will be inseparably linked, and that ultimate progress in the one will be impossible without progress in the other?

“The Universe and the observer exist as a pair. I cannot imagine a consistent theory of the Universe that ignores consciousness.”


The full article is here, about Linde discussing consciousness in regards to Buddhism.

Great read. Can’t argue with much, many of the points made are in line with my own views. I’ll admit I started reading less on the subject a while ago, kind of gets to the point after years of research your mind is so full of different concepts it takes your eye off the prize.

Old cliche but relevant especially where this topic is concerned, any revelation that comes from within is far more important to the individual than anything that can be read.
 

Total Power

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Great read. Can’t argue with much, many of the points made are in line with my own views. I’ll admit I started reading less on the subject a while ago, kind of gets to the point after years of research your mind is so full of different concepts it takes your eye off the prize.

Old cliche but relevant especially where this topic is concerned, any revelation that comes from within is far more important to the individual than anything that can be read.
This is why in Vedas it's mentioned "knowledge" comes from "practice" (it meant meditation) and not books. Material knowledge can be obtained from books, but knowledge of self comes from understanding "self". This is why i studied and practiced Eastern mysticism so much, why would i believe someone if its stated in the books? and i basically scratched the surface and i call myself a n00b lol. I encourage everyone to indulge in "practice" of understanding self. Unfortunately "intellect" is useless here. Meditation by definition means relaxing the 3 centres which are "physical", "emotional" and "intellectual". What remains?
 

Total Power

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jason pm this ones for you. As i said a million times before, meditation is the key! i never experienced tummo meditation (one of the more difficult techniques) but my journey took me to northern India as well where i discovered another technique of meditation.
 

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Hundreds of 'abused' captives freed from Nigeria school

At least 300 students, many in chains, rescued from a building housing an Islamic school in Kaduna city, say police.

At least 300 captives, most of them children and many in chains, have been rescued from a building in the northern Nigerian city of Kaduna, a spokesman for the police said. Yakubu Sano told reporters on Friday that police raided the building, which housed an Islamic school in the Rigasa area, and found adults and minors in "the most debasing and inhumane conditions". "We found around 100 students, including children as young as nine, in chains stuffed in a small room, all in the name of reforming them and making them responsible persons," he said. It was not clear how long the children had been held at the building. Two of them were from Burkina Faso while most of the rest were from northern Nigerian states, according to the police.

During Thursday's raid on the school, police said they found a "torture chamber" where students were chained, hung and beaten. Many of the rescued students bore scars on their backs and serious injuries. "The victims were abused. Some of them said they were sodomised by their teachers," Sano said, adding that seven teachers at the school have been arrested.

One inmate quoted by Nigerian media described horrific conditions and treatment at the facility. "I have spent three months here with chains on my legs," Bello Hamza said, adding that he was meant to be in South Africa studying for his master's degree. "This is supposed to be an Islamic centre, but trying to run away from here attracts severe punishment; they tie people and hang them to the ceiling for that."

People with chained legs are pictured after being rescued from a building in the northern city of Kaduna


Many of the rescued students were in chains and bore scars on their backs, police said [Reuters]

Police had been tipped off by local residents who became suspicious of what was happening inside the school. Islamic schools, known as Almajiris, are common across the mostly Muslim north of Nigeria - a country that is roughly evenly split between followers of Christianity and Islam. Parents in northern Nigeria, the poorest part of a country in which most people live on less than $2 a day, often opt to leave their children to board at the schools. The children have been moved to a temporary camp at a stadium in Kaduna, and would later be moved to another camp in a suburb of the city while attempts are made to find their parents, police said. Some parents who had already been contacted went to the school to retrieve their children. "We do not know that they will be put to this kind of harsh condition," one parent told Reuters news agency.

Islamic schools in Nigeria have for years been dogged by allegations of abuse and accusations that some children have been forced to beg on the streets of northern Nigerian cities. Earlier this year, the government of President Muhammadu Buhari, himself a Muslim, said it planned to eventually ban the schools, but would not do so immediately. It followed some reports in the Nigerian media that the government planned to outlaw such schools.

 

SELFCONFESDAFLNERD

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My view is that 'God' absolutely exists but the concept of 'God' is so far beyond our own intellectual limits that we can only 'know' God as essentially an idol. Whatever form this 'God' takes is completely unknown. To profess to know the mind of God is both incredibly arrogant and simply intellectually dishonest. You can't affect God and you cant disprove God's existance. All you can really say is that we will never find out what God is, just like how we will never fully understand the nature of the physical universe.

I agree with Nietzsche in that we have 'killed God' but the 'God' we killed was not really 'God' anyway, it was some bullshit projection of a deity that was created by our own inherently flawed species. We cant even make the broad claim that God is the 'eternal observer' given following the same line of thinking means that even 'God' itself would need to be observed, and so on. Put simply, the inherent limitations of the human brain make finding these answers impossible. As well, the more we find out, the more we realise there is to find out. The universe evolves faster than what our senses can possibly comprehend. That doesn't mean that we should stop trying to answer the big questions, we can still make discoveries and put forward theories, that is not a fruitless endeavour, but at the end of the day by very definition we can't know the mind of 'God'. We really shouldn't even make the seemingly humble claim that we can't know the mind of God.

What we can do is create 'Gods' in our own minds. Collectively we can create a 'God' and be able to give this God characteristics but again these characteristics are innately human. We can take it further by assuming we know the contents of God's mind. If you're wondering now why i havent mentioned the Bible (given on face value it may seem to disprove my claim that you can't know the mind of God) it is because once again it can't help us and why is simple. The Bible could be 100% the word of 'God' and 'God' could even make it 100% comprehensible for humans but we still woiuldn't be able to assume it comes from 'God' as again we simply can not know. I suppose Jesus (or any other prophet depending on which religion you follow) is meant to humanise 'God' but that doesn't make sense either as even a perfect man can't be a perfect God.

Anyway, I do apologise for the long winded post which didnt really say too much but my point is that "We simply have to cope with not knowing." Why the topic of religion creates so much conflict and why so many stupid and terrible acts are performed in the name of 'God' sickens me. However, in my mind that has a lot more to do with the character and the development of the person/s in question and not with the actual religious texts or teachings. The individual always has a choice as to how they interpret the texts, some will use it for good and some for evil. You simply can't follow all the teachings outlined in any of the religious texts so naturally you pick and choose what to follow and what not to. That is according to your own morals etc...but that is a different discussion

Just my 2c
 

TheGreatBarryB

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You don’t need religious texts to live morally.

Organised religion is a major failing of mankind. Wasted so much time and lives debating ridiculous points of texts, schisms etc. Held us back from further progression.

Promises heaven to the poor and hell to the greedy whilst ensuring the total opposite on earth.
 

chelseacarlton

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You don’t need religious texts to live morally.

Organised religion is a major failing of mankind. Wasted so much time and lives debating ridiculous points of texts, schisms etc. Held us back from further progression.

Promises heaven to the poor and hell to the greedy whilst ensuring the total opposite on earth.
Correct, in fact the absolute opposite is true.
You need religious text to hate the other and enslave them, rape them, kill them, leaving only the young girls, for what purpose is quite clear.
The god proposal or god hypothesis, is the antithesis of morality.
 

Total Power

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You don’t need religious texts to live morally.

Organised religion is a major failing of mankind. Wasted so much time and lives debating ridiculous points of texts, schisms etc. Held us back from further progression.

Promises heaven to the poor and hell to the greedy whilst ensuring the total opposite on earth.
Agree 100%
 

chelseacarlton

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When you smuggle god into the outside of the beginning of time in our local universe, you’ve already lost the argument.
Fallacious arguments, love them❤👍
 

Evolved1

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My view is that 'God' absolutely exists but the concept of 'God' is so far beyond our own intellectual limits that we can only 'know' God as essentially an idol. Whatever form this 'God' takes is completely unknown. To profess to know the mind of God is both incredibly arrogant and simply intellectually dishonest. You can't affect God and you cant disprove God's existance. All you can really say is that we will never find out what God is, just like how we will never fully understand the nature of the physical universe.

I agree with Nietzsche in that we have 'killed God' but the 'God' we killed was not really 'God' anyway, it was some bullshit projection of a deity that was created by our own inherently flawed species. We cant even make the broad claim that God is the 'eternal observer' given following the same line of thinking means that even 'God' itself would need to be observed, and so on. Put simply, the inherent limitations of the human brain make finding these answers impossible. As well, the more we find out, the more we realise there is to find out. The universe evolves faster than what our senses can possibly comprehend. That doesn't mean that we should stop trying to answer the big questions, we can still make discoveries and put forward theories, that is not a fruitless endeavour, but at the end of the day by very definition we can't know the mind of 'God'. We really shouldn't even make the seemingly humble claim that we can't know the mind of God.

What we can do is create 'Gods' in our own minds. Collectively we can create a 'God' and be able to give this God characteristics but again these characteristics are innately human. We can take it further by assuming we know the contents of God's mind. If you're wondering now why i havent mentioned the Bible (given on face value it may seem to disprove my claim that you can't know the mind of God) it is because once again it can't help us and why is simple. The Bible could be 100% the word of 'God' and 'God' could even make it 100% comprehensible for humans but we still woiuldn't be able to assume it comes from 'God' as again we simply can not know. I suppose Jesus (or any other prophet depending on which religion you follow) is meant to humanise 'God' but that doesn't make sense either as even a perfect man can't be a perfect God.

Anyway, I do apologise for the long winded post which didnt really say too much but my point is that "We simply have to cope with not knowing." Why the topic of religion creates so much conflict and why so many stupid and terrible acts are performed in the name of 'God' sickens me. However, in my mind that has a lot more to do with the character and the development of the person/s in question and not with the actual religious texts or teachings. The individual always has a choice as to how they interpret the texts, some will use it for good and some for evil. You simply can't follow all the teachings outlined in any of the religious texts so naturally you pick and choose what to follow and what not to. That is according to your own morals etc...but that is a different discussion

Just my 2c
You can't disprove the existence of the invisible pink unicorn either. Until a falsifiable definition is provided for "God," the default position is the null hypothesis. God is a delusion.

Much more interesting to me is why so many people aren't finding happiness in the only (finite) existence they can be certain of having. How many people win the lottery twice?
 

Evolved1

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You don’t need religious texts to live morally.

Organised religion is a major failing of mankind. Wasted so much time and lives debating ridiculous points of texts, schisms etc. Held us back from further progression.

Promises heaven to the poor and hell to the greedy whilst ensuring the total opposite on earth.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
 

chelseacarlton

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"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
It’s funny isn’t it?
It’s works for kingdoms like the Saudi’s etc., it also works for the yanks and us.
There’s not enough of us!
Shame really, we’d be taking parties through the asteroid belts of Saturn if it wasn’t for them.
One day friends, one day, hopefully!
 

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