Society/Culture Nobody has anything new to say about God.

[RupieDupie]

The New Atheism movement is just a natural progression, I was watching the Discovery Channel, and learnt two things;

1) I’m heterosexual and everything, but I think I’m attracted to Diesel Dave. After he comes home from a hard day fitting and turning I wouldn’t mind seeing if I couldn’t Ajax out some of the grease from his black t-shirts and brush out the grits from his beard.

2) I thought the channel would be doco after doco, but for what seemed like 3 hours, I watched a constant stream of red neck after red neck restore s**t and then sell it to other red necks, and in between all this quality viewing was what seemed like 2 hours and 30 minutes of absolute s**t ads. So I did some research and found that the Discovery channel, like it’s name suggests, started as a channel for science and docos, and over time has devolved into pseudoscience and reality television. This is because an audience thirsting for constant high level intellectualism is not large enough to justify a dedicated television channel.

Same goes for atheism, atheism in its purest form is not attractive enough to fill a Discovery Channel audience, but add in a bit of hatred, Twitter, SJWism and doctrine and people will be singing its praises from the choir. Not surprising seeing organised religion went the same way.

Further to this, this is just the Central Limit Theorem, Galton’s God, adding more and more people will make the distribution of the measured character tend towards normal, with the associated average.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Choosing to have a belief in a supernatural creator does not mean one needs to follow the ritualistic rigmarole demanded by the organized part of religion.

Absolutely.

You can't generalize about the men of the Enlightenment, when it was made up of so many diverse characters, holding so many disparate beliefs & opinions....We all know, for example, Newton's dalliance & obsession for the ancient dark art of Alchemy....How exactly does one square that with the moniker of the father of the Age of Reason & science?....LOL....We are all human, composed of many different quirks & contradictions.

Newton used mathematics, the queen of the sciences & human rational thought itself, to decipher the mysteries of our solar system....So he was considered a Demi-God of his age, for his unraveling of this heretofore great unsolved mystery....For shining the light of truth in a previously dark abode of the human consciousness....He demonstrated to all that God & Nature (Both interchangeable terms in that era), is rule governed; & that our human reason was perfectly compatible & in alignment with God's supernatural order in nature (aka. The Solar System).

Locke applied human reason to the nature of the Human understanding itself, in order to distinguish between beliefs & actions & in so doing, provided for the logical foundations & grounds for the separation of Church & State....He was certainly an Anglican & actually a physician first; But although he refers to God as the divine spark & creator of man, no one could claim a superstitious component contaminated his work in any way....What Locke was attempting, was the application of the scientific method to human nature itself, as a cure to emotion driven cognition, superstition, irrationality & fear.....Again, casting a light into the rational make-up & faculty of man, as the grounds for a rule governed society, prefaced upon our rational nature's in line with God's good grace & governance, by our being composed of that inner light of divine reason.....The individual foundations of a civil society & the rule of law.

So Both the Giants of the Age of Reason & the Enlightenment were by no means adherents of an institutionalized ritualistic religion....These men were pioneers of their times & sought to explicate the full extent of the divine light of reason into society, peoples lives, their actions & behavior....They were both social progressives, who wanted to Enlighten people by bringing the gift of knowledge & the inner illuminated light of God to them.

They were anything but Atheists....Locke in fact repudiates the atheist as a veritable 'madman' full of the distemper in his E.C.H.U....And based upon some of the nonsense I've read in this thread, then I'm inclined to agree with him.

 

[Total Power]

Choosing to have a belief in a supernatural creator does not mean one needs to follow the ritualistic rigmarole demanded by the organised part of religion.

Precisely why i am disliked by the "organised religious" followers here cause i disagree with their notion of Jesus being a miracle worker, son of god, saviour etc etc. It's not a question of my dick is bigger than the others, its a question of understanding.. All Abrahamic religions and Brahman religions, when practiced properly, are white religions. They are all fundamentally the same, even though some have a few subtle differences (for which there is a reason).

Religion = Religare (Latin) which means to reunite.

Yoga = Eastern equivalent which means to unite.

A pet hate of mine with advertising beliefs is the "mine is the correct way of thinking and if anyone disagrees they are an idiot or going to hell". All movements are guilty of it. I am unpopular within the "religious" ones here for pointing that out. Christianity to them is the best religion afterall.

 

[Present Not Past]

In the Jesus story, the first important people to visit him after his birth were three men from the East, that's East of the Middle East.

 

[ShanDog]

In the Jesus story, the first important people to visit him after his birth were three men from the East, that's East of the Middle East.

What's the inference there?

Did a quick search and the common belief is they were Persian, possibly Babylonian and one may have been from India.

 

[Bennett.]

Your second sentence is your typical stupidity.

But even if it were true, it has nothing to do with your first sentence.

No, he’s actually quite right

 

[Bennett.]

What's the inference there?

Did a quick search and the common belief is they were Persian, possibly Babylonian and one may have been from India.

More than likely Persian

 

[chelseacarlton]

Why is victim hood so central to the 3 abrahamics?
Why is retaliation the answer to their victim hood?
Why do they hate life?
Why do they all want the world to end so that only those that believe in their particular myth will be gathered up into a place we find no evidence of?

 

[Procrastinator35]

Anyone like to provide for an interpretation of the symbolic significance on the 3 gifts, Of Gold, Frankincense & Myrrh?

 

[Bennett.]

Anyone like to provide for an interpretation of the symbolic significance on the 3 gifts, Of Gold, Frankincense & Myrrh?

Well they were the greatest value gifts that could be given to a king! Some people think this also points at the identity of the wise men (not 3) being Nabateans

 

[ShanDog]

Anyone like to provide for an interpretation of the symbolic significance on the 3 gifts, Of Gold, Frankincense & Myrrh?

Embalming agent is an interesting one.

 

[Admiral Byng]

The symbolic significance of the three gifts is probably why they were added to the narrative when it was written down, decades after the event.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Anyone like to provide for an interpretation of the symbolic significance on the 3 gifts, Of Gold, Frankincense & Myrrh?

Two planks of wood and a bloke,3 nails,holy trinity....
Why is 3 so important to myth?

 

[Procrastinator35]

Well they were the greatest value gifts that could be given to a king! Some people think this also points at the identity of the wise men (not 3) being Nabateans

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org...d-the-magi-bring-gold-frankincense-and-myrrh/

"According to the Gospel of Matthew (2:11). These valuable items were standard gifts to honor a king or deity in the ancient world: gold as a precious metal, frankincense as perfume or incense, and myrrh as anointing oil. In fact, these same three items were apparently among the gifts, recorded in ancient inscriptions, that King Seleucus II Callinicus offered to the god Apollo at the temple in Miletus in 243 B.C.E.The Book of Isaiah, when describing Jerusalem’s glorious restoration, tells of nations and kings who will come and “bring gold and frankincense and shall proclaim the praise of the Lord” (Isaiah 60:6). Although Matthew’s gospel does not include the names or number of the magi, many believe that the number of the gifts is what led to the tradition of the Three Wise Men."

My own interpretation of them would encompass the tripartite nature of our being.....Gold being the color & representative of the sun & divinity....It also being a precious metal and all....It is also however malleable, like the human soul, but is considered eternal, as is our soul.

The Frankincense would provide for the spiritual side of our nature's as a ritualistic cleansing through inhalation....The human spirit has oftentimes been represented as similar to that of a puff of smoke to symbolize the life-force or breath of man.

The Myrrh would encompass the body of man as a healing agent & balm with which to anoint one with....Much as baptism provides for a physical purification of.

So the Gold is representative the divine regal soul, the Frankincense our spirit or breath & the Myrrh our body.

I'm open to any & all criticism on these points.

 

[ShanDog]

Two planks of wood and a bloke,3 nails,holy trinity....
Why is 3 so important to myth?

The musical chord analogy, I think. Three notes played together produce a new, fourth sound that encompasses the three individuals.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Two planks of wood and a bloke,3 nails,holy trinity....
Why is 3 so important to myth?

Well, in Christianity at least:

https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/2933/why-is-the-number-three-special

"Three is the number of perfection, or completion. This number is repeated throughout the Bible as a symbol of completeness.

God's attributes are three: omniscience, omnipresence, and omnipotence.

Time is divided in three: past, present and future.

Three is the first of four perfect numbers...

Three denotes divine perfection; Seven denotes spiritual perfection; Ten denotes ordinal perfection; and Twelve denotes governmental perfection.

Abraham offered three measures of meal to his guest(s), showing the perfection of God's divine nature.

The third book in the Bible, where we learn about true worship, is Leviticus.

During His ministry Jesus raised three persons from the dead.

On the third day, the earth rose from the water, symbolic of resurrection life. He was crucified at the third hour, was on the cross from 3 hours, rose from the grave on the third day.

The inscription above His cross, in three languages, showed the completeness of His rejection by man.

He fulfilled the three offices of Prophet, Priest, and King (Deut 177:15, 18:3-5, and 18:15).

 

[Total Power]

God's attributes are three: omniscience, omnipresence, and omnipotence.
.

That is all very well said, i will expand this into the following:

The unknowable unmanifest absolute is a core teaching of Judeo-Christian/Gnostic mysticism. There are three:

AIN: Nothingness
AIN SOPH: Limitless
Ain Soph Aur: Limitless Light

 

[Sainteric]

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org...d-the-magi-bring-gold-frankincense-and-myrrh/

"According to the Gospel of Matthew (2:11). These valuable items were standard gifts to honor a king or deity in the ancient world: gold as a precious metal, frankincense as perfume or incense, and myrrh as anointing oil. In fact, these same three items were apparently among the gifts, recorded in ancient inscriptions, that King Seleucus II Callinicus offered to the god Apollo at the temple in Miletus in 243 B.C.E.The Book of Isaiah, when describing Jerusalem’s glorious restoration, tells of nations and kings who will come and “bring gold and frankincense and shall proclaim the praise of the Lord” (Isaiah 60:6). Although Matthew’s gospel does not include the names or number of the magi, many believe that the number of the gifts is what led to the tradition of the Three Wise Men."

My own interpretation of them would encompass the tripartite nature of our being.....Gold being the color & representative of the sun & divinity....It also being a precious metal and all....It is also however malleable, like the human soul, but is considered eternal, as is our soul.

The Frankincense would provide for the spiritual side of our nature's as a ritualistic cleansing through inhalation....The human spirit has oftentimes been represented as similar to that of a puff of smoke to symbolize the life-force or breath of man.

The Myrrh would encompass the body of man as a healing agent & balm with which to anoint one with....Much as baptism provides for a physical purification of.

So the Gold is representative the divine regal soul, the Frankincense our spirit or breath & the Myrrh our body.

I'm open to any & all criticism on these points.

The three thing comes in to play later

First when the messiah turns up kings will meet him as per old testament

Zoastrians turned up and met nero with maji (wise men) about the same time as this may have been written.

Mathew is the only gospel this is mentioned in.

In the eastern tradition and translation 12 people turn up.

 

[Procrastinator35]

The three thing comes in to play later

First when the messiah turns up kings will meet him as per old testament

Zoastrians turned up and met nero with maji (wise men) about the same time as this may have been written.

Mathew is the only gospel this is mentioned in.

In the eastern tradition and translation 12 people turn up.

Yep...I did specify the Christian context there matey....And I reckon you meant to say Zoroastrians.

Though your point of the New Testament being prefaced upon the framework of the Old, in many ways & contexts, is a relevant one.

Most of the Christians myths derive their symbolism from previous cultures....Many that hark back to the Babylonians & the Egyptians, in one form or another....As most private school lads learn in their religious studies classes.

The symbolism just gets a new work-over & is adapted to the new culture....However, the underlying truths & relevance remain intact, due to our universal human nature remaining the same.

 

[chelseacarlton]

The musical chord analogy, I think. Three notes played together produce a new, fourth sound that encompasses the three individuals.

Actually that’s harmonics,2 create a third but yeh

 

[chelseacarlton]

Well, in Christianity at least:

https://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/2933/why-is-the-number-three-special

"Three is the number of perfection, or completion. This number is repeated throughout the Bible as a symbol of completeness.

God's attributes are three: omniscience, omnipresence, and omnipotence.

Time is divided in three: past, present and future.

Three is the first of four perfect numbers...

Three denotes divine perfection; Seven denotes spiritual perfection; Ten denotes ordinal perfection; and Twelve denotes governmental perfection.

Abraham offered three measures of meal to his guest(s), showing the perfection of God's divine nature.

The third book in the Bible, where we learn about true worship, is Leviticus.

During His ministry Jesus raised three persons from the dead.

On the third day, the earth rose from the water, symbolic of resurrection life. He was crucified at the third hour, was on the cross from 3 hours, rose from the grave on the third day.

The inscription above His cross, in three languages, showed the completeness of His rejection by man.

He fulfilled the three offices of Prophet, Priest, and King (Deut 177:15, 18:3-5, and 18:15).

So,cherry picking yeh?

 

[ShanDog]

Actually that’s harmonics,2 create a third but yeh

Ah what do I know? I'm a drummer. Melodies are for losers.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Ah what do I know? I'm a drummer. Melodies are for losers.

Lol
We probably do live in a yellow submarine Shan

 

[Procrastinator35]

So,cherry picking yeh?

You asked the question....I merely supplied an answer couched in a relevant framework.

We all know you are such a devotee of the Christian faith....Given you post in this here thread more than any one else....One might think that religion was an obsession with you.

It's not difficult to criticize the Bible, given it was written for & directed at an audience of uneducated, illiterate pastoral peeps, read to them via a pastor....The beauty more lies in comprehending a verse or text in a new light or context, in seeing what way that particular story is relevant to you & your situation in life.....There is much succor to be had from the universal stories therein.

Reading & interpreting stories literally - that were meant metaphorically, or allegorically - & then criticizing them as silly, illogical & inane, is in no way new, clever or insightful.

 

[Seeds]

Your know who started universities and all that.
The guy that came up with the Big Bang theory was a priest.
Just saying you know .. not everything is neat and tidy.

Thats cos everyone was christian back then. They didnt really have a choice. Despite his achievements Hume wasnt even allowed to be a professer at university because of his athiest views and that was in the 18th century. Hundreds of years after the scientific revolution began. Being a priest didnt help anyone achieve anything in science except possibly the luxury of time to study. We would be atleast hundreds of years further advanced if it wasnt for the constraint of religion. And that is probably a massive understatement.